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Dedicated headphones versus cabinet speakers - vinyl listening

mschool

mschool

Active Member
(Newbie here who has never owned a system since the 70s, and those were hobbyist set-ups)

What I am after: the sense of listening to music as the original sound engineer signed off on it; at best case, and with a $1000 budget, of which I have spent half.

I have a pair of used Sennheiser HD-558 headphones that I’m using exclusively to listen to music. I have them plugged into an Onkyo A-9010 integrated amp because I read that it had a dedicated headphone amp, so I thought it was a plus for my needs. My turntable is a Denon DP47F with a new MM cartridge; a DIATONE AMG-44 cartridge.

I am finding that some recordings sound flat and muddled, while some recordings sound impeccable. Traffic’s debut album is impeccable and Robert Fripp’s “Exposure” is just not as good. What I mean by this, is that nuances are there; they just seem weak. I’m describing supporting instruments and an example.

So, is this normal? Should I think about upgrading my cartridge, headphones? Or is it only cabinet speakers that are going to give me a studio listening experience?
 
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mschool said:
I am finding that some recordings sound flat and muddled, while some recordings sound impeccable. Traffic’s debut album is impeccable and Robert Fripp’s “Exposure” is just not as good. What I mean by this, is that nuances are there; they just seem weak. I’m describing supporting instruments and an example.

So, is this normal? Should I think about upgrading my cartridge, headphones? Or is it only cabinet speakers that are going to give me a studio listening experience?
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Some recordings are certainly better than others. It's worth playing poor-sounding LPs on a different turntable for comparison, and compare the LP to CD or streamed versions. Try to narrow down whether the quality problems are inherent in the original recording (very possible; I'm listening to a streamed version of Exposure right now and wouldn't call it a great recording), the particular LP (which may be worn out, mis-pressed, etc.), or your equipment.
 
That is a good point. I listened to Warren Zevon’s debut album today, and I was very pleased. It’s an early pressing, as are all of my records.

Additionally, I listened to The Tubes debut album today. Mixed by Al Kooper; that was also crisp and clear.

In both cases, best listening was with loudness switched on, volume low, and slight adjustments to bass and treble.

I have around 20 albums that are “ promotional use”, of which Exposure is as well. I wouldn’t think promotional records would be poor pressings, but maybe I’m wrong.

I don’t have the luxury of other turntables and gear to test with. But I’ll keep an eye out for that opportunity. I will also compare with streaming. That I can do with YouTube Music.

Thank you
 
If some tracks on vinyl sound great - the problem is not your setup.
You ARE in fact listening to how the recording engineer made it sound.
 
Every picture that I have seen of a recording room had monitor speakers (sometimes several sets) to evaluate the recording. Headphones do not tell the truth of the recording as the room is missing. Some recordings are made for headphone use. I would not be happy with phones as being the only way to listen to vinyl. Just too close to the recording and you will pick up more surface noise and static pops.
 
62vauxhall said:
My thought on headphones was formed thirty or forty years ago. And that is, one uses headphones when listening through speakers is not practical or not possible. A compromise borne from necessity.
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Good headphones are not necessarily a compromise. They are different from speakers, but no less enjoyable. They can be a very immersive and compelling experience and with binaural content, quite astoundingly real.
 
^^^ This

62vauxhall said:
A compromise borne from necessity.
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I used to think this way until I got fairly serious with my HP set up since I travel for work almost 6 months a yr. Now see post #7

:beerchug:

Edit: just had a thought (and it did hurt). Walkmans, Diskmans and ipods for 23yrs in the Navy May of helped some :dunno:
 
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I like music "made for headphones". Most of the modern stuff seems like it's made for them. Sounds good on speakers too, but just not as immersive.
 
I’m sure things are different now than they were in the 70’s & 80’s.

I had a pair of Pro 4AA’s that sounded OK until my temples made me take them off. I owned and still do AKG 240’s that sounded better and we’re a million times more comfortable. Somewhere, I acquired another pair of Koss but electrostatics that ran off the box connected to speaker outputs. Did not care for those at all and were just as hellishly uncomfortable as Pro 4’s.

I tried AKG K340 electrostats, no box required, but they were large and ungainly. Not uncomfortable in the same way but fell off easily.

I do use my K240’s from time to time if I want to listen to something louder than I can with speakers - a drawback of being an apartment dweller. Not physically feeling a bass wave, being enveloped by it, detracts from enjoyment in my opinion.
 
62vauxhall said:
Not physically feeling a bass wave, being enveloped by it, detracts from enjoyment in my opinion.
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That took me awhile to get use to, but being on the road and in hotels over 150 days a year it was a must do. But as mentioned once I realized its great and just different I was good. I use them at home sometimes even when I can crank it as loud as I want :dunno:
 
Headphones don’t have problems with reflection of frequencies bouncing off of walls. Then the better the headphones are, the more the imperfections of a recording are noticed. You have to do allot of research on the internet to find great recordings and it takes allot of patience to do so.
 
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As mentioned headphones are'nt necessarily de-rigour in studio control rooms,but agree it's not because they're somehow inherently compromised.
It's mostly a matter of practicality as I understand it,as often there is more than one person in the booth and the cables can become a PITA.
Headphones get used in the studio as monitors for performers all the time,so they are part & parcel to the recording industry as a whole.

That said if one wants to "use what the pros use" one should study up on that subject and follow their lead.
And I can tell you from doing so that those particular cans aint gonna be found in many recording studios.

Most common headphnes you'll find in studios these days are the Sony MDR-7506.
And those are a love/hate sorta affair,much like the ubiquitous NS-10M you'll find in most studios.
So love 'em or hate 'em you should have at least one pair of these around if this is your "thing".
Good thing about that is they are'nt that expesnsive so the buy in is NBD,just beware for counterfeits.
That and they're easy to drive so special gear usually is'nt typically needed with these.

After that I'd say AKG & Beyerdynamics are fairly common,typically their higher end models.
And in many cases they'll be the high impedence variety to boot.
Which definitely require specialized gear to properly drive them.

My headphone rabbit-hole trip ended with several pairs of 600ohm AKG K-240DF.
And those are driven by a NAD 106 preamp (it's HP section can put out > 8V from the headphone output).

Before going thru the AKG high impedence phones I had the Sony MDR-7506 and enjoyed them tremendously.
Still use those for gaming alot.

So all that said I'd say explore some other cans,and possibly the gear that drives them if what you use now ends up being subpar.

FWIW

Bret P.
 
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DaveVoorhis said:
Good headphones are not necessarily a compromise..
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Not necessarily indeed. Good headphones are all but a compromise, they're an experience one has to live to understand. Naturally if one's experience(s) is/are only with crappy phones they will think otherwise not realizing that in order to live the experience it will require thinning their wallet a bit.:music:
 
xero-D-hero said:
As mentioned headphones are'nt necessarily de-rigour in studio control rooms,but agree it's not because they're somehow inherently compromised.
It's mostly a matter of practicality as I understand it,as often there is more than one person in the booth and the cables can become a PITA.
That said they get used in the studio as monitors for performers all the time,so they are part & parcel to the recording industry as a whole.

That said if one wants to "use what the pros use" one should study up on that subject and follow their lead.
And I can tell you from doing so that those particular cans aint gonna be found in many recording studios.

Most common headphnes you'll find in studios these days are the Sony MDR-7506.
And those are a love/hate sorta affair,much like the ubiquitous NS-10M you'll find in most studios.
So love 'em or hate 'em you should have at least one pair of these around if this is your "thing".
Good thing about that is they are'nt that expesnsive so the buy in is NBD,just beware for counterfeits.
That and their easy to drive so special gear usually is'nt typically needed with these.

After that I'd say AKG & Beyerdynamics are fairly common,typically their higher end models.
And in many cases they'll be the high impedence variety to boot.
Which definitely require specialized gear to properly drive them.

My headphone rabbit-hole trip ended with several pairs of 600ohm AKG K-240DF.
And those are driven by a NAD 106 preamp (it's HP section can put out > 8V from the headphone output).

Before going thru the AKG high impedence phones I had the Sony MDR-7506 and enjoyed them tremendously.
Still use those for gaming alot.

So all that said I'd say explore some other cans,and possibly the gear that drives them if what you use now ends up being subpar.

FWIW

Bret P.
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Agree and did the whole journey a little over a year ago, The Sony’s, AKG’s then settled in BD’s. And don’t forget the HP Amp/DAC ;)
 
Beyerdynamic DT 770 M (80 ohm) are my main cans, plus an assortment of cheap Sony, Grado, and various off-brand forgettables gathered over the years.

Love 'em all.
 
Bottom line is some records are superior to others whether it's the original studio tape that was not great or perhaps one or more of the pressings. I don't know much about the technical side of recording and record pressing, but I do know they aren't all created equal. Having brilliant playback equipment only makes a bad record sound worse.

As far as cans v loudspeakers....I prefer the sound waves to be in the whole room, not just tickling my eardrums. But I realize cans can sound amazing.
 
So you’re entertaining the idea of seeking out speakers that make the recording sound as the engineer and producer intended???

You, my friend, are setting the controls for the heart of the rabbit hole. ;)
 
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