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Deep cleaning vinyl?

Knight Hawk

Knight Hawk

New Member
I'm new to the site, and this is my first post. I hope this subject is appropriate.

Vinyl records seem pretty resilient when bathing them with a dilute dish washing detergent solution followed by flowing warm water rinse, and towel drying, but the results have never been as good as I'd like. I just can't seem to get rid of the ticks and pops enough to satisfy me. The method works okay for spilled pizza but not so well for ground in grit. I Also tried the glue treatment, with similar non-spectacular results. I may have used the wrong glue, however (TiteBond Original). I might try TiteBond II, which is what others seem to be using.

I suspect once a dusty/dirty record has been played, the grit becomes embedded too firmly for effective deep cleaning, no matter what method of cleaning is used. Maybe the expensive disc cleaning machines can do a better job, but I don't have the money for one. I have experimented with alcohol solutions but don't like the apparent change to the vinyl surface, and concomitant loss of sonic brilliance. In any case, I'm not convinced the treated discs sound cleaner than with detergent solution.

I suppose I could try digital manipulation, to remove these annoying ticks, but that would be a last resort. Call me old fashioned, but I just prefer playing my vinyl, rather than converting to CD or MP3. Any thoughts or suggestions?
 
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Based on reading and observation, vacuuming the cleaning solvent of choice off the record surface seems to help. Many record cleaning machines rely on vacuuming the solvent off. I do that with a household vac.

A good brush that will reach down into the grooves will help, too. I use a carbon fiber brush. I've heard of people using fine-bristle paint brushes.

In my record cleaning, the brush and vacuum and using a diy record cleaning solvent were a big step beyond soapy water in the kitchen sink.
 
Unless there is groove damage from scratches all my vinyl plays silent but I use a commercial RCM and fluids. You can "cheat" by useing DIY methods/RCM and to an extent fluids that mimic commercial fluids and get similar results with a some luck. It's actually the fluids more than the brush that deep cleans the record. A distilled water rinse and final vacume finishes it off.
 
I have an album that sounded like absolute crap and seeing that my diy cleaning machine is still in the planning stages decided to try the glue trick. WOW what a difference. It's time consuming and seriously low tech but it does work.
 
I use and endorse the DiscDoctor brushes and cleaning fluid. They really get to the bottom of the grooves, and cane be used with or without a record cleaning machine.
 
I tried a bunch of different methods, and have settled on the KAB EV1 cleaning machine (http://www.kabusa.com/ev1.htm) The good part about this machine is it doesn't include a motor for spinning the record (you do it yourself) and uses your own existing vacuum cleaner for the suction part - I bought a $22 1gal shop vac at Walmart for mine - too much suction can be a bad thing, any household vacuum should work - I just wanted something small and dedicated. Combining this with two more brushes (one comes with the EV1 - I added two KAB Discsweep brushes) and the Audio Intelligent fluids (pricey but effective - the EV1 comes with a one step fluid as well - I never used it.) It is the most cost effective vacuum-based RCM combination that I could come up with.

The AI fluids are a three step process, which I follow:

1. Clean surface dust off of record, either with microfiber cloth or canned air
2. Apply Enzymatic fluid with brush #1, brush in lightly while rotating record, let sit for ~1-2mins and vacuum off. Repeat for other side.
3. Apply Super Cleaner fluid with brush #2 to neutralize enzymes and further cleaning. Vacuum, repeat other side.
4. Apply Ultra Pure water rinse which I apply with the supplied EV1 brush. Vacuum, repeat other side.

This has worked really really well for me and removes virtually all pops and clicks (unless there is groove damage, obviously.) This dramatically changed the quality of my vinyl playback, and also keeps my stylus pretty clean, as I no longer allow "unclean" records on my primary vinyl playback system. It even cleaned up the surface noise of new records!

There is a whole school of thought that an RCM is actually the most important part of the chain in terms of quality of playback - I honestly can't disagree - it is like night and day in my experience. Plus, sitting down in my record cleaning lair in the basement, cleaning records while listening to one of my three setup vintage systems in the workshop helps me declutter my mind and can be quite enjoyable for what is a pretty tedious task!

Here is an obligatory before and after photo:

Before:
photo.JPG


After:
photo.JPG
 
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Say what you want about the value/performance of RCMs, VPI/Nitty Gritty/Record Doctor/KAB etc, used ones are sold quickly when listed on Barter Town, Audiogon etc, if that tells you anything. I'v also seen some amazing DIY RCMs here on AK that would be the equal of any of the commercial RCMs.
 
Knight Hawk said:
I Also tried the glue treatment, with similar non-spectacular results. I may have used the wrong glue, however (TiteBond Original). I might try TiteBond II, which is what others seem to be using.
Click to expand...
If the glue treatment didn't work, nothing will. Type of glue doesn't matter much, either.
 
If the grooves are damaged, no amount of cleaning is going to fix them. I am a bit skeptical of all these claims here on this site of totally silent grooves, unless they are new records. After a record is cleaned, it might take a few plays to quiet down a bit. My guess has always been that crud gets imbedded in the vinyl and then gets washed out when the record is cleaned leaving a small void which causes light pops and clicks. Any used record that gets cleaned and is clear in sound has not been played much, if at all. I have seen many near mint looking records that sound like a battlefield when being played. I have been involved with vinyl since the mid 60's. My 2 cents.
 
jim249 said:
I am a bit skeptical of all these claims here on this site of totally silent grooves, unless they are new records.
Click to expand...

Yes I guess I would have been skeptical at one time to. After purchasing the VPI 16.5 I thought that would be the miracle cure. Although it did greatly improve from the spinclean.
It wasn't until I I combined the VPI with the AIVS 3 step cleaning process that I was able to remove 90% of the noise from my LP's. It had transformed many LP's I considered replacing or throwing out altogether. Yes it doesn't remove noise from damage but I combine this cleaning regimen with careful selection of LP's and thats about the best your going to do. If after that you can't tolerate the rare tick or pop then LP's aren't for you.
 
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Many thanks to all you vinyl lovers for the wealth of cleaning ideas offered up here. I can see this is not an easy subject to sort out. Maybe one needs to find a method suited to one's taste and temperament. Personally, I find deep cleaning to be a very tedious process, and perform it only in special cases.

In a similar vein, I am curious to learn if DiscWasher D4 solution actually increases background surface noise? I've used it for 30+ years (since it was introduced), and honestly don't believe my vinyl is noisier because of it. Of course, I use it as directed, two or three drops only, per wipe, and spread it over the width of the pad, by rubbing the bottom of the D4 bottle over it a few times. The idea is to use just enough fluid to form a slightly humid pad which neutralizes static and permits the dust to transfer from vinyl to pad.

I might also mention that the new DiscWasher applicator pad (with hardwood handgrip), now distributed by RCA(?) seems to have disappointed many. I am using the original pad made back in the day. I personally have no experience with the new one.

Likewise with the fluid. Back in the day, I stashed away one of the 16 oz. bottles and have stored it in the back of the fridge to minimize evaporation and chemical change. Just checked it, and the bottle is still full right into the neck, so it seems to keep well. I haven't had to touch that bottle yet, as I slowly use up the several smaller bottles that I keep running across around the house. D4 fluid really goes a long way when used as directed and I believe it was a well engineered product. But what do you all think? And is the current product chemically identical to the original? I fear maybe not.

The best pad I've used with D4 is the old Watts "Disc Preener", made in England. It was cheap and very easy to use. It produced a palpable drag when wiping, as though it really was reaching deep into the grooves. And it left the disc with no trace of surface dust. Sadly, I haven't seen the Watts "Preener" in stores for decades and mine is now quite worn out.

The Watts fluid was pretty awful tho, leaving a film that accumulated with repeated applications, and it definitely increased background noise. But, it was a product of the mono era, and probably worked well enough at the time.

Happy spinning and may your discs be merry and bright.
 
Maxray said:
I tried a bunch of different methods, and have settled on the KAB EV1 cleaning machine
The AI fluids are a three step process, which I follow:

1. Clean surface dust off of record, either with microfiber cloth or canned air
2. Apply Enzymatic fluid with brush #1, brush in lightly while rotating record, let sit for ~1-2mins and vacuum off. Repeat for other side.
3. Apply Super Cleaner fluid with brush #2 to neutralize enzymes and further cleaning. Vacuum, repeat other side.
4. Apply Ultra Pure water rinse which I apply with the supplied EV1 brush. Vacuum, repeat other side.
...
There is a whole school of thought that an RCM is actually the most important part of the chain in terms of quality of playback - I honestly can't disagree - it is like night and day in my experience. Plus, sitting down in my record cleaning lair in the basement, cleaning records while listening to one of my three setup vintage systems in the workshop helps me declutter my mind and can be quite enjoyable for what is a pretty tedious task!
Click to expand...
I use the same process, wipe down, 3 AI solutions (sometimes 4 with the #15 solution), 3 brushes, EV1.

When I go to estate sales and pick up a lot of Lp's, most will not see heavy rotation. For these I use Spin Clean with a follow up rinse and vac with the EV1 and place them in poly/rice paper sleeves.
 
GPJeff said:
and place them in poly/rice paper sleeves.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, I forgot to note that critical step! I use Mofi sleeves (marked with a blue sharpie to designate "cleaned") as I can source them locally at Newbury Comics. I throw out "blank" sleeves or if they have lyrics or other information on them - they get slid into the jacket next to the Mofi wrapped vinyl.
 
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