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Denon PMA-700V Output Protection?

PE9ZZ

Event Horizon
Subscriber
This is a modded Denon PMA-700V with a digital input. I had loaned it to my neighbor but to my chagrin it came back with blown output transistors (2SA1962/C5242). This was probably caused by a dry joint at the collector of TR505 but I am not sure. To prevent this from happening again I wanted to add a current limiter across the emitter output resistors R571 and R569. The output stage only has single transistors now (TR513/5) so adding current sense transistors across the resistors that pull the bases of TR503/5 down should work. In a fashion, they do. When they trigger positive the output voltage shoots negative and then positive again:

denon_pma-700v_prot_in_action.jpg

The amplitude is 10 V/div and the time 0.2 ms/div. The current limiter seems to trigger at 15 V which in this case is at V=I/R=15/1.25=12 A. The load here is that 1.25 Ohm. The power drawn from the mains is 200 W.

What happens is that the voltage amp driving the current amp goes berzerk as it tries to get more voltage which the current amp refuses to provide. The question is: how do I tame it so the current limit works as it should? Looks like the engineers at Denon were unable to get this working so they just left it out. After all, Denon's configuration is unusual.

This is the schematic:

denon_pma-700v_prot_sch.jpg

It is a standard current limiter as used in many other amps. The 4.7k resistors reduce the sensitivity of the BC847B/857B transistors at higher voltages so they only act at short circuit.

This is the module:

prot_module.jpg

and here it is installed:

prot_installed.jpg

Right now I'm at a loss how not to upset the voltage amplifier (attached to the left of the snippet from the schematic) while still getting current limit.
 

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Whaddya know! It does work! Just short-circuited the output and this is what happens:

short_circuit_tr515_e.jpg

This is the emitter voltage of TR515. It tries to pull down the output but is starved of drive by the protection circuit. Amplitude now is 0.5 V/div. The negative half is larger because of the additional voltage drop across R569. Assuming a similar drop across R571 (positive half) there is 0.7 V across it. Which is the V(be) of the BC857B! Power draw still is 165 W but that is perfectly acceptable for keeping the smoke of my output transistors inside.

Well, that solves my problem. Sometimes it pays to throw caution in the wind!
 
For the record, in post #1 "V=I/R=15/1.25=12 A" :confused::eek::(

Presumably you meant I=V/R=15/1.25=12 A :)

Ach! Of course! At least the result is correct...

As for those fuses: as any fule no, semiconductor chips are faster than any fuse. In the end they both blow. With my little kludge that ends. I don't really dare to try the ultimate test: full power and then short circuit the dummy load. It should work...
 
I have one of these, I accidentally shorted the speaker terminals 4 years ago. Do you think its fixable? Sorry to hijack your thread.
 
Well, bit the bullet and shorted my dummy load. Because the leads were rather long it started to oscillate:

short1.jpg

This is a sweep of a second, 80 Vpp into 8 ohms. It nicely comes back. The oscillation frequency is high:

short2.jpg

This is 5 V/div...

short3.jpg

and 1 µs/div making the violent oscillation 0.2 MHz. The power draw from the mains is again about 200 W, low enough to keep the transistors intact.

This protection is crude but effective.
 
I have one of these, I accidentally shorted the speaker terminals 4 years ago. Do you think its fixable? Sorry to hijack your thread.
Yes. Please start a new one. These are nice amplifiers well worth the repair.
 
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