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Did Shure stop making cartridges?

The M91, M44, M55, V15 I all have identical generators. The only difference is the plastic mount the generators are glued to, and the styli.

The M55 and M44 are exactly identical in every way. The only differences are the styli. You can take any M44 body and slap on an N55E stylus and you have an M55E cartridge. Likewise, you can take an M55E body and slap on an M44-7 stylus and you have an M44-7 cartridge.

I use an M55E Swiss nude elliptical stylus in my M44-7 cartridge.

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The M91 is the same cartridge. The difference is that Shure mounted the generator at an angle of 15 degrees in the plastic mount, instead of flat. This angle allows for a taller or thicker grip and a grip that is angled instead of straight like the N44, N55, VN15 grips:


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Wolfie62 said:
The Me97 and M97xE are electrically identical. The M97xE was a regurgitation of the early 1990s Me97.

The M97 Era IV (1979) (RXT4) is electrically different from the M97xE and Me97.

Stylus-wise, you can interchange them if they physically fit. The N97xE is the most abysmal of the bunch.

Mounting an original N97HE stylus on the 4 carts, the M97 Era IV and RXT4 are identical in every way. Mounting it on the M97xE and Me97, there is a very noticeable roll off of high frequencies.

The M55 cartridge is the same identically as the M44 (C, -7, G, etc.). It’s a great Shure legacy cartridge. But it also has a rolled off high frequency response. That roll off improves (disappears) as you go up the line, I.e., M91 to M95 to M97 Era IV.
Click to expand...

My measurements of the two M97xE carts that I had and the Me97 cart that I still have are not consistent with them being 'electrically identical.' The two M97xE's measured quite similarly although I only retained the measurement of one of them: Res -1370/1390; Ind - 570/564. Whereas my measurement of my Me97 is Res - 1497/1516; Ind - 760/735. The latter measurements are consistent with the specs for the Era IV M97 models - Res-1550, Ind-700

My ears, admittedly not the best, also told me there was a difference between the two. The infamous M97xE roll off was audible but was not discernable (at least to my ears) with Me97he.

My point in posting is most decidedly not to be disagreeable but to raise the question - might perhaps there be different versions of the Me97 cart?
 
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Thanks to all of the contributors to the thread. I'm following this one with interest as I have the following:

M91ED, M104E, M110HE, V15 V-P, and an R1000EDT (I think M75ED made for Radio Shack). First 2 are up and running, but the last 3, I'm trying to figure out which table I want to put them on still

And I'd absolutely buy new styluses from Shure if they started making them again, but for now LPGear vivid line, Jico, and others makers have worked for me
 
Wolfie62 said:
ou do know you can remove that ground strap from the pin, don’t you, on Shure carts?
I’m not sure why you’d ever want to. But some people enjoy ground hum in the background of their music.
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certain things need it removed in order to not hum. My Thorens 160 for example does not have a ground lead from preamp to turntable. It grounds through one of the shields in the signal cables. If I have the side strap on a cartridge with metal mounting ears it creates a ground loop hum. Carts with plastic shells are not a problem and need the strap in order to not hum. Both of the carts I happen to have mounted on that are metal ears so the straps have been pulled.
 
beej said:
My measurements of the two M97xE carts that I had and the Me97 cart that I still have are not consistent with them being 'electrically identical.' The two M97xE's measured quite similarly although I only retained the measurement of one of them: Res -1370/1390; Ind - 570/564. Whereas my measurement of my Me97 is Res - 1497/1516; Ind - 760/735. The latter measurements are consistent with the specs for the Era IV M97 models - Res-1550, Ind-700

My ears, admittedly not the best, also told me there was a difference between the two. The infamous M97xE roll off was audible but was not discernable (at least to my ears) with Me97he.

My point in posting is most decidedly not to be disagreeable but to raise the question - might perhaps there be different versions of the Me97 cart?
Click to expand...
Probably just quality inconsistencies. These (Me97 and M97xE) were made in Mexico. Shure’s VP and historian stated that quality issues and parts were the 2 big reasons Shure got out of cartridge production. Mine are still very close in measurement and sound. Multiple times I’ve used the exact same stylus in each and there was (is) a very noticeable sound difference. The made-in-Mexico units sound identical. The M97 Era IV sounds very different.

All 5 of the Era IV bodies I have measure close to each other. The Me97, the M97xEs and RXT6 all measure alike but considerably lower in inductance and resistance than the Era IVs.
 
Wolfie62 said:
Probably just quality inconsistencies. These (Me97 and M97xE) were made in Mexico. Shure’s VP and historian stated that quality issues and parts were the 2 big reasons Shure got out of cartridge production. Mine are still very close in measurement and sound. Multiple times I’ve used the exact same stylus in each and there was (is) a very noticeable sound difference. The made-in-Mexico units sound identical. The M97 Era IV sounds very different.

All 5 of the Era IV bodies I have measure close to each other. The Me97, the M97xEs and RXT6 all measure alike but considerably lower in inductance and resistance than the Era IVs.
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I double checked my readings on that Me97 and they are as posted. So the 2 M97xE carts that I measured had similar quality issues, is that correct?
 
How about I measure my Me97 again and post the results? Then we can compare. Also my M97xE and a few other clones.

If they’re far off, then we can discuss quality issues.

The real proof is in the listening.
 
cleverdick said:
In some ways, I think Shure was a victim of its own success. The bewildering array of models over the years, some of which were simply relaunches under a different banner, was just too confusing.
Click to expand...
This sounds like the situation since 2013 at Intel. I talked to a CPU designer in Silicon Valley in 2017 and he said that Intel laid off all its CPU designers in ~2013 and had been coasting on fumes for 5 years! In fact, from the Haswell 4700x Intel CPU (GPU: Iris Pro 5200) until the Coffee-Lake 9700x chips, it was simply 5 generations of relaunches THE SAME PRODUCT, no changes (other than adding CPUs/GPUs, a no-brainer change)!

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Iris-Pro-Graphics-5200.90965.0.html

In GPU benchmarks, NO IMPROVEMENT from the 2012 Haswell-generation Pro 5200 until the 2020 Iris xe G7 80eus (see the 'Performance Rating' table!) Intel has been resting on its Laurels, collecting salaries as the board room filled up with marketing people and nobody of importance! They deserve the spanking they have coming to them from AMD and Apple/M1.
 
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Wolfie62 said:
Shure transferred production to Mexico in the early-mid 1990s.(...)
Click to expand...

Typo? Because as far as I'm aware, they already started to produce carts in Mexico in the first half of the 80s.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
beej said:
My measurements of the two M97xE carts that I had and the Me97 cart that I still have are not consistent with them being 'electrically identical.' The two M97xE's measured quite similarly although I only retained the measurement of one of them: Res -1370/1390; Ind - 570/564. Whereas my measurement of my Me97 is Res - 1497/1516; Ind - 760/735. The latter measurements are consistent with the specs for the Era IV M97 models - Res-1550, Ind-700

My ears, admittedly not the best, also told me there was a difference between the two. The infamous M97xE roll off was audible but was not discernable (at least to my ears) with Me97he.

My point in posting is most decidedly not to be disagreeable but to raise the question - might perhaps there be different versions of the Me97 cart?
Click to expand...

Your measurements are off significantly from mine.

Me97(1) 1410/1436 ohms 613/595 mH

Me97(2) 1431/1422 ohms. 611/607 mH

M97xE(1) 1394/1396 ohms 627/609 mH

M97xE(2) 1405/1411 ohms. 612/603 mH


M97 E4 1535/1549 ohms 753/761 mH

RXT4(1) 1560/1493 ohms 728/726 mH

RXT4(2) 1602/1582 ohms 758/786 mH

M95 1505/1515 ohms 801/782 mH

HA85(T4P M95) 1504/1518 ohms 792/799 mH

The M97xE and Me97 are identical generators. The M97 E4 is a different animal. The M95 is closer to an M97 E4 than the Mexican M97xE and Me97.
 
Wolfie62 said:
Your measurements are off significantly from mine.

Me97(1) 1410/1436 ohms 613/595 mH

Me97(2) 1431/1422 ohms. 611/607 mH

M97xE(1) 1394/1396 ohms 627/609 mH

M97xE(2) 1405/1411 ohms. 612/603 mH


M97 E4 1535/1549 ohms 753/761 mH

RXT4(1) 1560/1493 ohms 728/726 mH

RXT4(2) 1602/1582 ohms 758/786 mH

M95 1505/1515 ohms 801/782 mH

HA85(T4P M95) 1504/1518 ohms 792/799 mH

The M97xE and Me97 are identical generators. The M97 E4 is a different animal. The M95 is closer to an M97 E4 than the Mexican M97xE and Me97.
Click to expand...

That is interesting. Just measured again several times using 2 different meters and my measurements for the Me97 are nearly identical to what I posted above for inductance on one meter and varies slightly on the other. My resistance measurements on both meters are within a few ohms of what I originally posted. I'd measure the 2 M97xEs I had but I sold both of them. That said the measurements that I have recorded for one of those M97xEs are quite similar to yours.

Edit as of 7:55 a.m. eastern 5/10/21 - I now have taken measurements on my Me97he 5 times on one meter and 3 times on a second meter. I then averaged those measurements on each lead and the result is: Res 1516/1526; Ind 763/736.

So what do we conclude from this? I have an outlier Me97?
 
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lini said:
Typo? Because as far as I'm aware, they already started to produce carts in Mexico in the first half of the 80s.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
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1980-1985? I don’t think so. The V15V and V15V-MR were made in the USA, (1982-1983+) as were the M97E4, M11HE, M110, and 6 different p-mounts I have. Made in the early 1990s, I have p-mounts made in Mexico. (The entire Encore line!) This is during the time everything phono-related went full-tilt in favor of CDs.
 
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1983.

“Manufacturing plant opens in Agua Prieta, Mexico, for production of phonograph cartridges.”
https://www.shure.com/en-US/about-us/history

But it couldn’t have been done overnight. They have to sell off the old US models so the same model that are made in two different countries could be sold side-by-side. It probably took years to finally ramp-up Mexico production. And who knows how big the ‘factory’ was. To keep costs down, our cartridges could have been built in shacks. Nobody is talking.

A dilemma could work in reverse. For instance – how would they sell off a warehouse full of stale cartridges with odd parts made in Mexico? A new spin like ‘made by expert reviewer’s for audiophiles tastes’ then give them a new but familiar name could work. Fan boys would latch on. It could happen. Once the stock was depleted then they close shop. The fans would go bonkers and Shure walks away without looking back but looking good and ripe for another company to buy their leftovers.

Some cartridge makers sold the same stuff at different consumer levels. One for the fashionable, one for the suburbanite and another for those who drive under-powered Volkswagen’s. The car industry uses this model. They call it, “badge engineering.” Other more conservative cartridge makers might have been dedicated to giving clever-audiophiles better-designs.
 
But it couldn’t have been done overnight. They have to sell off the old US models so the same model that are made in two different countries could be sold side-by-side. It probably took years to finally ramp-up Mexico production. And who knows how big the ‘factory’ was. To keep costs down, our cartridges could have been built in shacks. Nobody is talking.
Click to expand...

Full production of marketable product didn’t start until 1989. As a point of context, Shure started a plant for WIRED mics in Juarez Mexico the next year, 1984. Both plants started making bottom rung products. Quality was always the thorn in Shure’s side at these plants. Lack of QC was the straw that broke the camel’s back on phono cart production.

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AdlerW said:
I'm disappointed that Shure stopped making cartridges right as the "Vinyl Renaissance" was getting underway. Seems like now would be the time to get into the market...
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Really does look like they stuck it out long enough to ride it all the way to the bottom, and then put themselves into a position of not being able to react/take advantage when things came back... bad timing all around!
 
I bought 3 of the 97XE's. I mounted one on my Lab 400 table and it does sound ok but the brush on the front is stiff and the cartridge won't track right with it down. So I have to use it with the brush up. I have a Denon table with a Denon Moving Coil cartridge. You hear a MC cartridge and it will blow you away. There is just no comparison between the two.
 
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