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Differences between various power cords?

Mr. Lin

Mr. Lin

Lunatic Member
I started a thread in the tt/tape forum about how I recently added a cheap power conditioner and a Zebra power cord to my main audio system, which includes two turntables, a TV, DVD/CD player - amplification by a fairly new Outlaw 2150 receiver. Anyway, the point of the thread was that the power conditioner and Zebra cord made a very audible difference for the better, and I was impressed at the degree to which this occurred for an investment of about $100.

That thread is starting to get side-tracked because we're getting some of the "cables don't make a difference it's a myth" rhetoric in there. Who'd have thought?

But it lead me to wondering about power cords. In my experience different interconnects interact with one's system and produce different results. Has anyone tried this with power cords? In other words, have you tried power cord A and power cord B in the same system and found there to be a difference? And let's exclude the stock ones, because I've already heard that difference, I'm just trying to find out if the improvements better power cords make are always the same.


Dave
 
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Mr. Lin, I heard a power cable shootout, at the Fest, on a Lector cdp. The Soundstring kicked the stock cable around the room. I later had a chance to run a head-to-head with a Zebra cable. Here are the threads:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67272&highlight=soundstring

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=73204&highlight=soundstring

Just to put it in perspective, the Zebra was $150, and the Soundstring was $40. So, no, the changes are not always the same, and are not driven by price. The Soundstring is still in my home system, connecting my Lector CDP0.6T to my Blue Circle power conditioner.

Edit: Your results with Zebra vs soundstring, or any other cable, could easily be reversed, in your system and environment. The point is, you need to try a candidate in your own system. It helps to have a co-operative local dealer.
 
Dave, I am sure you will get some interesting responses to this. As always, we request that people will post based on experience and an open mind.

Anyhow, I know Gary P has some real good experience with them and some great insights to offer. I am sure he will be around shortly.

There are also some good posts and threads about them in TOL. You can get some decent ones to try out for not too much money. Would value your experiences with them.
 
One of the most telling AC cable swaps I ever heard was with an Art Audio Diavolo amplifier...we had it hooked up and playing for a couple of days before we sat down to listen...well, on this one Saturday the guy I work for and I sat down to listen to it and it sounded broken...no highs, no lows, the sound was really terrible...now this was with a very , very high dollar Marigo power cord....well, I thought it couldn't hurt to try another cord and we tried what was the top of the line Audio Magic cord at the time and the sound was transformed...really made both of our jaws drop! A Shunyata power cord had a similar effect....

It really does seem that as important as it is to balance your signal cables with you system that it can be just as important with power cables, too...that Marigo cable performed better than the Audio Magic somtimes, with some pieces, so go figure...

All my college chemistry, physics, and mathematics, all my radio "learnings", my years spent as an online computer QA and rework tech really leave me with more questions than answers with all kinds of cables, signal as well as power....

All I know is that the better my stereo gear got the more important better cables became....

Just my $.02

As always, YMMV.
.
 
i can vouch that they do make a noticeable difference...i upgraded from the stock cords on my rotels to some shielded 12g volex's from newark,and then pretty much just called it a day...a very impressive and worthwhile improvement for the little money spent on them tho
 
Bigerik said:
Anyhow, I know Gary P has some real good experience with them and some great insights to offer. I am sure he will be around shortly.
Click to expand...

Like a bad penny.... :D

Yeppers, I've played with a few power cords.... it's my opinion that once you have everything 'dialed in,' power cords can make a significant difference to the sound of your playback system! Even if you don't have everything dialed into your system yet, they can have an impact on the sound.

And, yes, I've heard all the arguments and theories about them not working or having an effect. Yet, they do.

I tried the Zebra power cord (when it was sent around as a demo), PS Audio Power Punch (I think that's what it's called) and PS Audio Statement. Darn, I think there was one more, too.... . They all made my equipment sound better. I've tried them on my preamp, phono preamp, CD player and DAC. In every case they made the component in question sound better than with the stock power cord.

An interesting experiment was a power cord that I borrowed from a local stereo store (it was their loaner for people like me.) :) It was a standard computer power cord with one end (male end) replaced with a Furutech end.

To put it mildly, I was shocked when I could detect a difference. So part of the secret probably is about the connectors used - not just the wiring.

If you do decide to try different cords, see if you can leave a deposit at a local dealer or have some kind of agreement and try a few different loaner cords. Who knows - some may make your equipment sound worse and some better. And it may not be an 'absolute' for everyone as the effect probably would be different depending on where you are situated (i.e.: close to a transformer, etc.)

Speaking of ends... some folks use hospital grade wall plugs. They tend to have a tighter fit to the power cord end than a standard wall plug. This helps. Furutech has 'high end' wall plugs.

There's also a mail order outfit that sends power cords across the USA - try before you buy. :) But I forgot the web address.... sorry.

Have fun! I still think that this is the most weird, amazing and significant 'discovery' * that I made.

* No, I'm certainly not the one that originally made this 'discovery' but I still think it's pretty bizarre.... but I am glad that that I tried the loaner cord with the Furutech end! :banana:
 
luvvinvinyl said:
Mr. Lin, I heard a power cable shootout, at the Fest, on a Lector cdp. The Soundstring kicked the stock cable around the room. I later had a chance to run a head-to-head with a Zebra cable. Here are the threads:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67272&highlight=soundstring

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=73204&highlight=soundstring

Just to put it in perspective, the Zebra was $150, and the Soundstring was $40. So, no, the changes are not always the same, and are not driven by price. The Soundstring is still in my home system, connecting my Lector CDP0.6T to my Blue Circle power conditioner.

Edit: Your results with Zebra vs soundstring, or any other cable, could easily be reversed, in your system and environment. The point is, you need to try a candidate in your own system. It helps to have a co-operative local dealer.
Click to expand...

I believe I came across your thread about this while trying to decide which power cord to try first. The Zebra cord seemed like a great place to start given the low price and glowing reviews. I really am impressed with the quality of what you get for $65, and in the future I would consider trying out their speaker cable, which is also reasonably priced.

Cables have also become increasingly important for me too, and even though I currently have very strong cables all around, I have plans for serious upgrades over time. But it's going to be expensive, so I'm just going to do it piece by piece. This is the type of component I end up "collecting," just gathering good cables when the opportunity arises, and there's always a use for them at some point. For example, I'll probably buy another power cord soon just to compare (thinking XLO as their one of my favorites with interconnects), and even if it or the Zebra gets put aside for a while, eventually I'll have my Bottlehead amps completed, and they'll all need good power cords.

Can one of you explain these Furutech ends to me? I saw that as an (expensive) option when I bought the Zebra power cord, but I've never heard of it until now. Anyone know what it is about them that's supposed to increase performance?
 
Mr. Lin said:
Can one of you explain these Furutech ends to me?
Click to expand...

I have no idea.... :no:

Besides, whatever I say can be disputed by an EE or other scientist type, "proving" that it can't happen. So why bother with explanations or theories?
 
GaryP said:
I have no idea.... :no:

Besides, whatever I say can be disputed by an EE or other scientist type, "proving" that it can't happen. So why bother with explanations or theories?
Click to expand...

Right, I'll have to hear it for myself. I'm also a little puzzled by the power cord thing, more so than with interconnects. But I know for a fact that the differences are real and that I've definitely heard them, so in the end it doesn't really matter.
 
We just got a couple of the new Basis power cords in with the Furutech ends....I gotta say they seem to fit in the IEC connector more snugly, with less slop, than the Marinco/Wattagate ends, and the NEMA 15 plug really looks nice...the fit and finish on the Furutechs are very nice and "polished" looking...i.e., they look like a higher end plug...

As for why they work better/differently? I can only guess it's due to the combination of the materials used for the conductors and it's contact area, along with whatever plastic the body is molded from.....

I don't know why this stuff works....and to tell the truth, I really have gone beyond caring why it works...but Caelin Gabriel of Shunyata had a white paper out about power cables, our equipment, and the AC supply forming a loop...

In fact, this page:http://www.shunyata.com/Content/FAQ-Tech.html
answers a lot of questions about one manufacturer's research into why power cables do what they do...
 
Whats in the power supply?

RickB said;

"One of the most telling AC cable swaps I ever heard was with an Art Audio Diavolo amplifier...we had it hooked up and playing for a couple of days before we sat down to listen...well, on this one Saturday the guy I work for and I sat down to listen to it and it sounded broken...no highs, no lows, the sound was really terrible...now this was with a very , very high dollar Marigo power cord....well, I thought it couldn't hurt to try another cord and we tried what was the top of the line Audio Magic cord at the time and the sound was transformed...really made both of our jaws drop! A Shunyata power cord had a similar effect...."

Granted that a different power cord made a HUGE difference in sound quality. My question is why? Esoteric semantics and audiophool mumbo jumbo aside, there has to be a scientific reason why.

Is it because a toroid transformer is used? And it lets thru all kinds of garbage on the AC mains. Is there filtering other than just an X or Y cap?

What exactly makes up the power supply? Can anyone check their amp/receiver and tell us whats in it? You know, the path from AC cord to the main caps and how big? The whole thing.

Obviously the AC cord IS a filter, otherwise no effects would be heard and I have no doubt there IS an audible effect so don't classify me as subjective or objective.

Sorry for the rant but I really would like to know whats happening here. All my amps have the standard E/I transformers and I hear no difference at all with any mod I do at the AC mains level other than a balanced transformer for the mains supply. Can't describe it but it just sounds better.

I just read the Shunyata FAQ and am still wondering.
 
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I don't know why it does what it does, and no, there weren't any toriods used in the Art Audio amplifiers that I have had the pleasure to play with...the Diavolo is tube powered and tube rectified, see:
http://www.artaudio.com/diavoloindex.html


diavolomain.jpg


As one can see by looking at the Art Audio gear, it's not an unsubstantially built line of audio gear....underneath the amps are as pretty as they are on top, nice parts, nice layout....

I guess that I've just gotten to the point to where I don't really care anymore about the engineering, science, voodoo, or whatever goes into cable manufacturing...the bottom line for me is what does this cable do to the sound of my system...is it better, worse, or the same? Can I make something that sounds better than stock?

I will read posts about DIY cables and try the different styles myself...I borrow things from my weekend job and try them myself....the big thing is just to try different things....

If cable swaps make no difference in your system, then don't worry about it...leave it alone and go do something else!
 
Oh yeah, one other thing, I've had this discussion with a few other folks, that like myself, enjoy vintage audio gear...now, I'm afraid I'm going to open up as big a can of worms as the cable debate, but it has been my experience that a lot of the classic gear we so know and love just doesn't have the level of resolution that a lot of the more modern gear does...now, this isn't EVERY piece of vinatage gear, some tube gear is still incredibly good by today's standards...but I know the old Sansui Quad units I have, and the Marantz receivers and integrateds (like the 1060 series) I have had in the past, are just not in the same ball park as many of the modern pieces that I am very lucky to get to play with....even the big Carver Sonic Holography preamp fell behind the PS Audio 4.6, which fell behind the Adcom GFP565, which is leaps and bounds behind the Audible Illusions Mod 3A...I still have all but the Carver around here and it is quite instructive to put the PS or the Adcom, or even the Onkyo Grand Integra preamp in place of the Audible...

As an aside, just yesterday I was comparing my Nakamichi RX202 with my Pioneer Elite CT-43....a few years difference in build, but I feel like the Elite just digs deeper into the cassettes I played yesterday...these were both factory prerecorded and tapes I made 20 years ago on my Teac Z-6000...so...

Or the fact that the digital sound from my Sony SCD-CE775 is virtually indistinguishable from my Audio Alchemy Dac and DeJitterbox shows what just a few years of modern design work has accomplished....

Yet, I was wishing for an old receiver to be in the stack yesterday when listening to a prerecorded best of Chicago tape....the lack of resolution and the tone controls would have made that tape more fun to listen to!...

I guess the old saying "Horses for Courses" holds true with what you have, what you listen to, and what you want...

Have fun!
 
HI Rick, thanx for getting back on this thread. The Art Audio amps sure are beautiful and I have read nothing but very good things about them. My interest though in the power supply remains. Such as is there anything in the chain that would isolate the rectified DC from the AC mains?

Are tube amps just a different animal and therefore more effected by AC mains noise? I don't have any tubers so no reference here. As far as vintage vs. modern amps go I have seen this debate go on with modern SS amps and tube type amps which I am sure are a lot better than my stuff.

I know the power cord effect is real, no argument there. Thats what fascinates me though. Speaker cable effects I think I have figured out to my satisfaction. But I don't want to hijack the thread in THAT direction.

I guess I'll just have to do more research on the various amp configurations and try to find out why it happens. I do enjoy listening to music on my completely updated Marantz 2270 amps (2) and my updated Large Advents. Granted these oldies but goodies are not the most revealing(if at all) pieces of audio but I sure love them dearly as they give me hours of good audio. Love them big ol' transformers...

But I will say this in their defense, after all the updates with new CD caps for the main PS, Blackgates, Silmic II's, polystyrenes in the tone amp sections, remove the ceramic caps everywhere and replace with poly's, and metal film resistors in the tone amp section the old girls never sounded so good. Just clean and clear music flows out of the speakers. I have heard a lot more detail and low level sound that was not heard before. There's a lot more updates in there but who cares,heh,heh....

Peace
 
I can't really weigh in on the vintage aspect of this, because aside from my Thorens everything in my system is new, but I do firmly believe you need pretty good components to really hear the subtle differences made by a nice pair of cables (or power cord, etc).
 
There are some exceptions, I believe. For example vintage MX110/Mc240 with my Tannoy HPD speakers are quite surprisingly good! Nowhere near "high end" as "high end" can get, of course.... but they have a great midrange.
 
I never have experimented with power cables so I don't know if they make a difference or not. When I had my interconnects and speaker cables cryo treated I also had my power cables done since they were doing it for free as I was the guinea pig. I do know that when I got everything back after treaatment it didn't take me more than 2 or 3 minutes to realize the sound had improved quite a bit.
 
Well I just won a new Cardas Golden power cord on the auction site for a very reasonable price. If you're not familiar with it, it's a big (large diameter) cord that retails for $450 (1.5m), so it's going to be interesting to see if there's any difference between it and the Zebra power cord, and which one is better (the Cardas had better win this one!). Anyone use any Cardas cables before? They're not cheap, that's for sure. I don't think I've ever even seen one this thick before.
 
Mr. Lin said:
Well I just won a new Cardas Golden power cord on the auction site for a very reasonable price. If you're not familiar with it, it's a big (large diameter) cord that retails for $450 (1.5m), so it's going to be interesting to see if there's any difference between it and the Zebra power cord, and which one is better (the Cardas had better win this one!). Anyone use any Cardas cables before? They're not cheap, that's for sure. I don't think I've ever even seen one this thick before.
Click to expand...

Holy crap!
What a way to start. Can't wait to hear your impressions.
Hope you got a good deal!
E
 
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