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Distortion/sibilance issue with Technics SL-QD33

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ElJeffe

New Member
Hi all! New to the forum here.

I recently purchased a newly recapped and recalibrated SL-QD33 off of eBay. It works and sounds great, except that it's had an ongoing issue with sibilance and slight distortion that's just bad enough at times to distract from the listening experience. I've messaged the seller, tried adjusting the tonearm heighth per their recommendation (they even sent an extra AT92E cart to try free of cost, basically identical to the DR350 it came with). Also adjusted the VTF, with mixed results. The stylus is a nude elliptical that came highly recommended by the seller.

Now, I know this topic has been beaten to death. I've scoured the online forums reading everything I can to try and alleviate the problem. Some of my records do sound better than others, especially newer ones. But I've still heard distortion/sibilance with some new records that seem to be well pressed, which leads me to believe it's not a VTA issue. (I read somewhere that if the problem goes away with heavier vinyl, it's probably a VTA issue. Which cannot be adjusted on this TT.) The only thing I haven't done is try cleaning the stylus with a Magic Eraser or Onzow (however it's spelled), but it was brand new when I got it anyway. I use the Mobile Fidelity stylus brush and cleaner every few records (just the brush in between each one).

I know that IGD and sibilance are issues inherent to the format, and can't necessarily be completely eliminated, especially on a TT with limited adjustability like mine. But I have a strong feeling it could be better than it is.

I'm wondering if anyone else has had sibilance issues with this cart? I read one person say that it has sibilance problems, but most people seem to agree it's a good cart for the money. I'm not attached to the AT sound, though I don't mind it. I have considered buying a different brand. My questions are, would a Shure V15 or some of the other carts with high marks track more accurately than my AT? Or should I just buy a nicer stylus for the AT92E? I already know about most if not all of the ones available. I just don't think more tinkering with the TT will solve the problem. At this point, if that's what it takes, I would rather bring it to someone who knows what they're doing instead of continuing my own experimentation.

Any help is appreciated. I'm sure you all can relate to the frustration that comes with a system that is SO close to sounding right, but not quite.

- Jeff
 
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P.s. Forgot to mention that I've plugged a CD player into the same amp and speakers, and did not experience the same distortion or sibilance.
 
From the looks of it the SL-QD33 is a p-mount turntable. Is that correct? Do you have a picture?

If it is a p-mount turntable your choices of cartridges will be extremely limited these days. That AT p-mount is good for what it is, but will never track and trace as well as better AT cartridges. It's just not possible. You may just be running up against the performance limitations of the cartridge. I don't know anything about the other cartridge you have. What is the brand and model? What kind of stylus are we talking about? A real original one or a generic/aftermarket type?

I would be careful not to overuse the stylus cleaning fluid. If your records are not clean, get a cleaning system, especially for any old/used records. A simple dry brush should be okay for cleaning the stylus every 1-2 sides. I would only use the liquid stuff every 2-4 weeks maybe, if that. Try not to get any of the fluid anywhere except the diamond tip of the stylus.
 
Hi,

It is a p mount table. The DR350 is made by AT. The stylus is an AT stylus.

How would inaccurate application of the stylus fluid affect sound/performance? I try to be careful when applying.

The only record cleaner I have is Mobile Fidelity "One" record wash, which I use with a wet brush. I then let it dry and use the dry brush. The new records that I encounter sibilance/distortion with shouldn't be terribly dirty, though.

I think you're right about the limitations of the cart. I'll reiterate my initial question: Would you recommend buying a new cart altogether? If so, would I be better off going for a Shure, Pickering or ADC? Those all seem to get good marks. The AT's have a mixed reputation; some people seem to think they lack in imaging.

Thanks again.
 
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If that's a p-mount turntable, you won't get rid of IGD and sibilance unless you use an original stylus on whatever cartridge you have. Either that, or an aftermarket that replicates the original specs. Cart+stylus = 6g. VTF=1.25g. Distance from cartridge back (disregard the pins and the "structure" with the screw hole - I mean, consider just the "visible" back side of the cart when mounted)) to stylus tip = 20mm (a 1mm tolerance both ways is acceptable). You may try increasing VTF to maximum and see if it improves.
 
I mean, it's not just the VTF the aftermarket tracks at that matters. The aftermarket stylus MUST weigh exactly the same as the original, so the total cart+stylus weight matches the original specs (6g total).
 
Hugo65 said:
I mean, it's not just the VTF the aftermarket tracks at that matters. The aftermarket stylus MUST weigh exactly the same as the original, so the total cart+stylus weight matches the original specs (6g total).
Click to expand...

I am running it at 1.5 g (the max for this table). I'm pretty sure the cart and stylus have the correct weight and dimensions, but I am looking at NOS carts with original styli to replace it with, once I have the funds. Any specific ones you'd recommend?

Thanks
 
ElJeffe said:
Hi,

It is a p mount table. The DR350 is a rebranded AT. The stylus is an AT stylus, according to the seller.

How would inaccurate application of the stylus fluid affect sound/performance? I try to be careful when applying.

The only record cleaner I have is Mobile Fidelity "One" record wash, which I use with a wet brush. I then let it dry and use the dry brush. The new records that I encounter sibilance/distortion with shouldn't be terribly dirty, though.

I think you're right about the limitations of the cart. I'll reiterate my initial question: Would you recommend buying a new cart altogether? If so, would I be better off going for a Shure, Pickering or ADC? Those all seem to get good marks. The AT's have a mixed reputation; some people seem to think they lack in imaging.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Please post a picture of the carts and styli you have. Until we can see those, all bets are off. You might have a generic stylus there instead of OEM, or it might be a very old stylus with a dried up suspension.

Dried up suspensions are always a risk with NOS cartridges. I wouldn't suggest NOS for that reason unless you really know what you are doing. No offense, but it doesn't sound like you do.

"Fluid and wet brush" is not a good cleaning regimen. I would get a vac-based RCM - options start at less than $200. I also think that brand of record cleaning fluid kinda sucks. Not much better than using plain distilled water IME.

Re: imaging, that is nonsense, and has nothing to do with tracking and tracing anyway. AT carts perform well generally, but any budget cart with a bonded stylus is going to have performance limitations. Still I would recommend using a real OEM stylus even if it is bonded over aftermarket "nude" stuff that performs poorly.

If you want to experiment with cartridges you need a different turntable - one that accepts 1/2'' mount cartridges. Pmount is a very limited system and you'll run into all kinds of pitfalls with it, especially if you are buying cartridges that are decades old off auction sites or whatever.
 
patient_ot said:
Please post a picture of the carts and styli you have. Until we can see those, all bets are off. You might have a generic stylus there instead of OEM, or it might be a very old stylus with a dried up suspension.

Dried up suspensions are always a risk with NOS cartridges. I wouldn't suggest NOS for that reason unless you really know what you are doing. No offense, but it doesn't sound like you do.

"Fluid and wet brush" is not a good cleaning regimen. I would get a vac-based RCM - options start at less than $200. I also think that brand of record cleaning fluid kinda sucks. Not much better than using plain distilled water IME.

Re: imaging, that is nonsense, and has nothing to do with tracking and tracing anyway. AT carts perform well generally, but any budget cart with a bonded stylus is going to have performance limitations. Still I would recommend using a real OEM stylus even if it is bonded over aftermarket "nude" stuff that performs poorly.

If you want to experiment with cartridges you need a different turntable - one that accepts 1/2'' mount cartridges. Pmount is a very limited system and you'll run into all kinds of pitfalls with it, especially if you are buying cartridges that are decades old off auction sites or whatever.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am relatively new to the hobby. That's why I'm here.

I just bought this TT, not exchanging it any time soon. Just looking to get cleaner playback. Also not looking to spend upwards of $100 on a record cleaner. The stylus is brand new. Box it came in says "Audio-Technica ATN3472BE nude elliptical". I could take a photo and post it, but don't have the time right now.

I think you misunderstood my comment about "imaging". That is not the issue I'm having right now. It's sibilance and distortion, as I specified in the title of the thread. However, in looking at other cart options, I have read that ATs are not known for having great depth of sound. I'm still waiting to hear some recommendations from y'all about specific cartridges that would be better than the one I have, since you know exactly what kind it is.
 
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I also find the comment about experimenting with different carts baffling, as it is my understanding that p mount arms were intended to make it easy to swap out carts. Why would they be designed for ease of use if in reality they aren't suited to tinkering?
 
ElJeffe said:
I also find the comment about experimenting with different carts baffling, as it is my understanding that p mount arms were intended to make it easy to swap out carts. Why would they be designed for ease of use if in reality they aren't suited to tinkering?
Click to expand...

Pmount came out in the 80s. During that time cassettes had already taken over for casual listeners and hardcore vinyl people weren't really interested in p-mount. CD was also gaining traction. P-mount turntables eventually went away as there are none being manufactured today. There are also virtually no p-mount carts being made today other than a couple of AT models. Shure got out of the cartridge business entirely a few years ago and the one p-mount they used to offer right before going bust with cartridges kinda sucked. I think Grado also stopped making p-mounts a few years ago.

So your options are extremely limited. You'll have to look for carts that are no longer made, buy them used, and hope there is nothing wrong with them. That's easy enough because you can test the cart body with a multimeter. The hard part is finding genuine styli for those carts that haven't suffered with age. Even if they are NOS, the rubber suspensions can dry up which means tracking will be crap with them. The generic styli that are compatible with p-mounts are also generally garbage, because they need more VTF to work right and your turntable can only track up to 1.5g.

Basically you bought into a system that is barely supported today at all.
 
ElJeffe said:
I just bought this TT, not exchanging it any time soon. Just looking to get cleaner playback. Also not looking to spend upwards of $100 on a record cleaner. The stylus is brand new. Box it came in says "Audio-Technica ATN3472BE nude elliptical". I could take a photo and post it, but don't have the time right now.
Click to expand...

Take some pictures when you have time. Let's see how that turntable is set up. What are the rest of the components in the chain? Did you confirm the VTF with a digital scale? Did you free float the arm and make sure there is nothing binding in the vertical or lateral planes?
 
patient_ot said:
This doesn't tell me anything I don't already know. Also what the seller fails to disclose is that even a nude elliptical stylus can play back with sibilance and distortion on certain records. A big reason I stopped using elliptical styli a long time ago.
Click to expand...

It tells you exactly what the stylus is, and that it's brand new. Which is what you asked.

I agree about elliptical styli. So, should I just buy a hyper elliptical or line contact? Once again, I would appreciate some solid recommendations.

Thanks.
 
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patient_ot said:
Pmount came out in the 80s. During that time cassettes had already taken over for casual listeners and hardcore vinyl people weren't really interested in p-mount. CD was also gaining traction. P-mount turntables eventually went away as there are none being manufactured today. There are also virtually no p-mount carts being made today other than a couple of AT models. Shure got out of the cartridge business entirely a few years ago and the one p-mount they used to offer right before going bust with cartridges kinda sucked. I think Grado also stopped making p-mounts a few years ago.

So your options are extremely limited. You'll have to look for carts that are no longer made, buy them used, and hope there is nothing wrong with them. That's easy enough because you can test the cart body with a multimeter. The hard part is finding genuine styli for those carts that haven't suffered with age. Even if they are NOS, the rubber suspensions can dry up which means tracking will be crap with them. The generic styli that are compatible with p-mounts are also generally garbage, because they need more VTF to work right and your turntable can only track up to 1.5g.

Basically you bought into a system that is barely supported today at all.
Click to expand...

I bought this TT because it was relatively inexpensive, and a brand/type I had already owned and had a good experience with. I don't have the budget for modern audiophile kit.
 
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patient_ot said:
Take some pictures when you have time. Let's see how that turntable is set up. What are the rest of the components in the chain? Did you confirm the VTF with a digital scale? Did you free float the arm and make sure there is nothing binding in the vertical or lateral planes?
Click to expand...

I'm using it with a NAD 3155 and ELAC B6.2 bookshelves. I don't own a digital scale. The tonearm moves freely.
 
ElJeffe said:
It tells you exactly what the stylus is, and that it's brand new. Which is what you asked.

I agree about elliptical styli. So, should I just buy a hyper elliptical or line contact? Once again, I would appreciate some solid recommendations.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

AT has not made nude styli for P-mount cartridges in years. So your stylus is either an aftermarket or it is very old NOS.

There are no companies making advanced profiles for P-mount carts anymore. At least not OEM. With aftermarket or "frankencart" type stuff you are back to your problem with the turntable not having adjustment for more than 1.5g VTF. Basically what you are asking for doesn't really exist. Hence my comment about buying into a constrained system. You would have been better off looking for a vintage turntable that accepts 1/2'' mount cartridges and then getting that serviced by a professional.
 
ElJeffe said:
I'm using it with a NAD 3155 and ELAC B6.2 bookshelves. I don't own a digital scale. The tonearm moves freely.
Click to expand...

A digital scale costs around 10-12 dollars. You might want to invest in one. When's the last time that NAD was checked out? From the looks of it, it's a model from the 80s. Is that correct? What is your input chain? Are you using the built-in phono stage or something else?
 
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