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DIY speakers for 4wpc amp

M

martin15560

Member
In the future I would like to build my own speakers (easier the design will be the better). My goal is to have speakers which will produce "ears bleeding experience" with only 4wpc amp (if it is possible).

Firstly, do you think I should look rather into open baffle designs or there are some sealed diy speakers designs which would also worth checking?

Secondly, I would prefer only one full range driver in the speaker. Do you think it is doable even without using the subwoofer and if so which driver would you recommend? In the past I was recommended Altec 604. Are there better possibilities?

Thank you very much
 
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Rear loaded folded horns should do. However the cabinets can be more complicated. I have a 6wpc SET tube amp and have considered offerings in kit form from Madisound. They have simple kits using 4" drivers up to more complicated 8" folded horns. It's worth a look. The 6" BK-16's or 8" BK-20'S along with a sub should sound really good. I'm currently using 2-way speakers rated at 95db and they get pretty loud. 10" woofers, cone tweeter and 4" ports. The more sensitive the better. Just remember, full range speakers tend to need a 100 hours or more to loosen up and sound right.
 
If you have the flexibility to place the speakers pretty much anywhere, open baffles may be your friend. Half the energy produced by the speaker goes out the back, and in sealed enclosures, that energy is absorbed and wasted. In ported enclosures some energy is used to boost specific frequencies, at the expense of some boxy coloration. And open baffle puts all the energy into the room, but because the two wave fronts are out of phase, they will cancel if they meet too quickly. So a big open baffle placed where the back wave reflects off the wall and constructively interferes can be efficient and good sounding.
 
The Altec 604 is technically not one full range driver, it is a coaxial driver, with a compression loaded horn tweeter mounted coaxially in the middle of the woofer. You would be very very hard pressed to find any single full range driver which will sound better than an Altec 604, I think it's a very solid recommendation. It's also very expensive though, and will need an enormous cabinet.

There's Fostex drivers, and their rear loaded horns. There's open baffles of all descriptions. There's vintage coaxial drivers like the aforementioned Altec,plus Tannoys, and Jensens, and Goodmans, etc. There's the Diatone P-160 and its clones. There's also vintage speakers from the 1950s which could work as-is.

What is the best for your situation depends a lot on your budget, available space, and expectations. Also, the genre of music and how loud you listen. How much bass you expect. To generalize, something expensive and large, will be much more satisfying than something inexpensive and small.

If you really want ears bleeding from 4W, I would suggest a fully horn loaded system, like Klipsch La Scalas, or perhaps an Altec Voice of the Theater. You won't get this from a single driver on an open baffle. Such systems are very critical when it comes to construction, so I think buying one is a better idea than DIY, if you go in that direction.
 
I would maintly listen rock and classic. I don't want to set any budget..would like to hear the best options I can get and then decide if it is too much.
I listen on medium volume but I would like to be able to get speakers to their physical possibilities.
Speakers would be in medium size room but I don't really have the option to differ much their position (close to the rear wall) so back ported definitely not and I don't know how about the open baffle?
But speakers can be big as needed e.g. the size of La Scalas whould be ok.

So you think it would be better to buy used than try to do diy?

Edit: Are there any drivers / speakers with some ludicrous sensitivity like 110db and more :D ?
 
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If you want ear bleeding results from 4 watts you’re going to need speakers that are not only high sensitivity but also capable of high output—those two characteristics don’t necessarily go together. And if you want deep bass as well the speaker will need to be very large. The advice to go with something along the lines of an Altec 604, Altec VOT or Klipsch LaScala is sound. Or a classic Altec 2-way using a model 416 woofer in a large vented box mated with an Altec compression driver and horn. A similar speaker (of type) is the Klipsch Cornwall.

DIY using Altec gear is pretty easy with many plans and schemes available online.

Note that if you go the DIY big woofer mated to compression driver route there are scads of capable drivers and horns available—Altec, GPA, JBL, EV, Radian, Beyma, B&C, Eminence, 18Sound and many others. Good results are attainable with a wide variety of such gear.
 
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Tom Brennan said:
If you want ear bleeding results from 4 watts you’re going to need speakers that are not only high sensitivity but also capable of high output—those two characteristics don’t necessarily go together. And if you want deep bass as well the speaker will need to be very large. The advice to go with something along the lines of an Altec 604, Altec VOT or Klipsch LaScala is sound. Or a classic Altec 2-way using a model 416 woofer in a large vented box mated with an Altec compression driver and horn. A similar speaker (of type) is the Klipsch Cornwall.

DIY using Altec gear is pretty easy with many plans and schemes available online.

Note that if you go the DIY big woofer mated to compression driver route there are scads of capable drivers and horns available—Altec, GPA, JBL, EV, Radian, Beyma, B&C, Eminence, 18Sound and many others. Good results are attainable with a wide variety of such gear.
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You (the OP, that is) won't get any better advice than this from Mr. Brennan.
 
I'm using a Magnavox 8601-20 console amp and it is only making 3.5 watts using 16 ohm University made speakers. The Magnavox amp has 4 ohm outputs. I can get the level very loud, even louder with the right preamp. One thing to remember is to match the output impedance to the amp for most output in the speakers. Another thing note is if your ears are bleeding, the sound isn't pleasantly loud, it's ragged and harsh. Tube power shouldn't be that way. I could be way off base though.
 
martin15560 said:
Edit: Are there any drivers / speakers with some ludicrous sensitivity like 110db and more :D ?
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Midrange and treble horns are available at that sensitivity - the problem is finding a woofer that can keep up with them. The home hi-fi champion for sensitivity has always been the Klipschorn, for seven decades now. They are about 105 dB, because of the folded corner horn, where the corner of the room becomes the mouth of the horn. They must be placed in corners to work correctly. Plans for the bass bins have been around for decades, too, for DIY'ers.

Around 1977, a coworker sold me a pair of completed corner-horn bass bins that he had made, and I finished them, adding a midrange driver and horn, and a horn tweeter. I designed and built the crossover, winding my own coils in the process, built a top section, and finished the speakers cosmetically with dark paneling and white grill clothes. It was something to be nineteen years old and in possession of such capable speakers, for awhile.

Here is the only pic I have of them, from a friend who bought them from me:


Four watts would get them to about 111 dB, and my friend bi-amped them with two G.A.S. Grandson of Ampzilla power amps, giving him 160 watts per channel. They went stupid-loud. :eek:

I think Altec or ElectroVoice drivers in a big box would be a much simpler project, but if you run into a guy with a pair of corner-horn bass bins for sale...
 
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Go over the Pispeakers. Easy to build cabinets. Very high efficiency. Expect to use a powered sub. Great info in the white papers section.
 
sqlsavior said:
Midrange and treble horns are available at that sensitivity - the problem is finding a woofer that can keep up with them. The home hi-fi champion for sensitivity has always been the Klipschorn, for seven decades now. They are about 105 dB, because of the folded corner horn, where the corner of the room becomes the mouth of the horn. They must be placed in corners to work correctly. Plans for the bass bins have been around for decades, too, for DIY'ers.

Around 1977, a coworker sold me a pair of completed corner-horn bass bins that he had made, and I finished them, adding a midrange driver and horn, and a horn tweeter. I designed and built the crossover, winding my own coils in the process, built a top section, and finished the speakers cosmetically with dark paneling and white grill clothes. It was something to be nineteen years old and in possession of such capable speakers, for awhile.

Here is the only pic I have of them, from a friend who bought them from me:


Four watts would get them to about 111 dB, and my friend bi-amped them with two G.A.S. Grandson of Ampzilla power amps, giving him 160 watts per channel. They went stupid-loud. :eek:

I think Altec or ElectroVoice drivers in a big box would be a much simpler project, but if you run into a guy with a pair of corner-horn bass bins for sale...
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Looking at the coffee table, it seems you can have your cake and eat it too. :D
 
Thank you very much for the recommendations.

Tom Brennan said:
The advice to go with something along the lines of an Altec 604, Altec VOT or Klipsch LaScala is sound. Or a classic Altec 2-way using a model 416 woofer in a large vented box mated with an Altec compression driver and horn.
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Are there any DIY kits for this type of speakers (preferable the Altec 604/VOT or Klipsch LaScala/Belle/Klipschorn like) or step by step guides / build manuals ?
 
well, I don't know about big ones, but there are smaller ones...

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...&search_in=all&x=0&y=0&search_str=fostex+kits

The Fostex kits should be available world-wide.

bk20.jpg


... and there's also Pi Speakers. Opinions are decidedly mixed on him/them, but some folks do like them.

http://www.pispeakers.com/contents.html
 
mhardy6647 said:
Oh -- as for Duplexes -- these ain't bad. :)

http://www.wardsweb.org/Billfort/

Bilfort 604 cabinets from audioheritage by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

@Billfort's are prettier'n' mine :p

DSC_5735 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
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I really like the Billfort's cabinets.
Are there better and worse Altec driver's models? Should I be looking precisely for Altec 604-8G or are there other good models?
And what about the crossover is the original one good or should I get crossover elsewhere?
 
martin15560 said:
I really like the Billfort's cabinets.
Are there better and worse Altec driver's models? Should I be looking precisely for Altec 604-8G or are there other good models?
And what about the crossover is the original one good or should I get crossover elsewhere?
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Opinions vary widely (if not wildly).
My opinion is that, if one likes what the Duplexes do, one won't go wrong with any of them :)
"Optimal" crossovers will add much to them, too -- for whatever reason, the stock Altec crossovers generally had shortcomings that are well worth addressing. Not that Duplexes sound bad with their stock XOs -- but they can sound even better.
 
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