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Do all amplifiers sound the same?

Resident

Resident

Well-Known Member
I personally have never thought that all amps do. I do agree that at targeted levels all amps will play as intended and give the sound you would hear from one to the next as the same.

In comparison though I feel that all amps have there own "signature" so to speak. I came upon this article. It seems to explain both sides of the fence and why you can and do "hear" a difference in an amplifiers reproduction of the signal.

Quite an interesting read.


http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/the-sound-of-an-amplifier

http://sound.westhost.com/amp-sound.htm
 
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In a word: no they don't. They can be "voiced" differently from one another. Which one is the more accurate, who's to say. Its what you prefer. One my be slightly brighter sounding, darker sounding, faster sounding, quieter sounding. As you stated though, the higher up the food chain you go, I think they will sound less different from one another. That's if were talking solid state vs. solid state or tube vs. tube that is. This is just my opinion of course.
 
Seems that this question get asks every week. In a nutshell, no they don't. Especially vintage amps. For example, a Harman Kardon 730 and a Yamaha CR-820 will sound quite different through the same speakers. One person will prefer A, one B. Nobody is right or wrong. Although the better the speakers, the more noticeable it will be. Marantz, HK, Sansui, Yamaha, Luxman, NAD, etc, are all known for their "signature" sound.

Also a difference between tube and solid state.

But I agree, as you go further up the food chain, the change is less noticeable, in most cases.
 
Speakers Speakers Speakers

The SAME amp will not sound the same when driving two diverse pair of speakers

Two amps... Same speakers? Depends on quality/design of the pair of speakers

Short answer: No
 
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argh.

55801584.jpg
 
They all SHOULD sound the same.
Be aware when tyeying to find differences, those differences may arise from different volume levels, tone control looking being midrange but actually are not. Ancient solid state preamps getting too much of a signal overdriving the preamp part, more or less (usually more) defective or deteriorated electronic or electromechanical components.
This all apart from from psychoacoustics and real acoustics, loudspeakers, and possible turntables, which all may influence the total picture much more.

Anyway there were different recent topics everybody chimed in, discussions keeps the forum alive.
 
Just research Bob Carver.

Here is an excerpt from the wiki :

"Carver caused a stir in the industry in the mid-1980s when he challenged two high-end audio magazines to give him any audio amplifier at any price, and he’d duplicate its sound in one of his lower cost (and usually much more powerful) designs. Two magazines accepted the challenge.

First, The Audio Critic chose a Mark Levinson ML-2 which Bob acoustically copied (transfer function duplication) and sold as his M1.5t amplifier (the “t” stood for transfer function modified).

In 1985, Stereophile magazine challenged Bob to copy a Conrad-Johnson Premier Five (the make and model was not named then, but revealed later) amplifier at their offices in New Mexico within 48 hours. The Conrad Johnson amplifier was one of the most highly regarded amplifiers of its day, costing in excess of $12,000.

Of note that in both cases, the challenging amplifier could only be treated as a “black box” and could not even have its lid removed. Nevertheless, Carver, using null difference testing, (null difference testing consists of driving two different amplifiers with identical signal sources and exact levels, but out of phase by exactly 180 degrees. If the amplifiers were 100% identical, no sound would be heard. If sound was heard, the audio amps had different properties). Bob Carver used "distortion pots" to introduce amplifier characteristics, fine-tuned to null-out any sound differences. His "motel-room" modified amplifier sound was so similar, Stereophile Magazine editors could not tell the difference between his amplifier and one costing more than $10,000. This amplifier was marketed as the M1.0t for about $400.00. Bob Carver may have single-handedly debunked any number of theories about sound quality by using physics, blind and double-blind testing and unbiased measurements, such as "Gold-plated" speaker wires sound better than copper wires, etc.) Carver successfully copied the sound of the target amplifier and won the challenge."

URL : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Carver
 
I decided that I would separate my comments from that. But that is the kind of stuff I used to do, not the duplicating of the sound, but having dual trace scopes for most of my life I figured out how to add A & B and invert B.

Although power bandwidths suffer in some amps for various reasons, most of the time people are not running near clipping so that is not the main issue. You'll notice some Carver or Phase Linear amps give a "phase shift" rating. He thought that matters, but I am not exactly sure how and how much, nobody is.

Another thing I will make note of is the improper use of the term "180 degrees out of phase". This is one of my pet peeves in electronics and if you find yourself in my basement discussing this you better take note. There is a major difference between inverted and out of phase. Phase refers to time in the physical sense. you got some reactance, that'll shift the phase. Having an inverting amplifier stage is NOT the same thing.

If you delay a 1 KHz sine wave by half a millisecond, you have shifted the phase.

Now try that with a sawtooth wave.

That should illustrate the difference quite quickly. I am seriously considering editing the wiki article. I've done it a couple of times, and once got bounced. Fukum, they're wrong. :-)

Anyway, another thing to consider is if the frequency response is rated let's say +/- 1.5 dB, that gives then 3 dB to play with. If 1 dB, then they get 2. Most people should be able to hear 2 dB. Not in general loudness, but in frequency response when those frequencies are in question, in relation to the rest of the integrated material ? I think so.

Y'know, in a way people are going to go like "Not another thread on this" but really, the old ones get to be fifty pages n **** and you just get lost in there. So another one is not so bad an idea really.
 
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Yeah, it's a touchy subject.

I don't quite understand. If Bob Carver copies a design sound, then does an a/b with the amp he copied, I would suspect they would sound similar, wouldn't they? What the hell does that have to do with this?

Don't think anyone was suggesting anything else other than using the same speakers with either amp. That would kind of be like comparing a Corvette with a bus, or motorcycle.

Scopes and specs don't transition into sound. Sound is the only thing that matters. If you feel all amps sound the same, knock yourself out. They don't, but whatever floats your boat.
 
As I said last time: NO. If they did, we wouldn't be having this discussion. There would be only ONE amp design, everyone would have one, and no one would know the difference.
 
Resident said:
I personally have never thought that all amps do. I do agree that at targeted levels all amps will play as intended and give the sound you would hear from one to the next as the same.

In comparison though I feel that all amps have there own "signature" so to speak. I came upon this article. It seems to explain both sides of the fence and why you can and do "hear" a difference in an amplifiers reproduction of the signal.

Quite an interesting read.


http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/the-sound-of-an-amplifier

http://sound.westhost.com/amp-sound.htm
Click to expand...

:nutz::whip:
 
All Amplifiers don't sound the same and neither does Preamplifiers or Speakers and everyone hears sound differently so its a matter of what you like and how it sounds to you.
 
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Did any of you cranky seasoned veterans actually bother to read the original post? It seems not. The OP was presenting articles on the subject, not really asking for your opinions.
 
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