Do all solid state amps sound the same?

[JohnVF]

Were your ears blindfolded?

Actually, thinking about it more I bought my current amp with a bit more on mind than just what my ears heard. I wanted to free up my ability to choose any future speakers I might run across..I wanted something that would drive pretty much anything, but it also had to sound good while doing so. Getting an amp for 1/3 new price wasn't bad, either. So future plans and wallet played a part...but the ears made the ultimate decision and always have right of refusal. The performance of an amp and its sound are different things of course, and I've heard many that give up one for the other and I wanted both.

 

[JohnVF]

I've heard $15k Dali's that sounded like they were soaked in wet rags.

I heard $8000 Dalis driven by large tube monoblocks that were among the best speakers I've ever heard. Seems to me you just proved my point..your ears decided that those speakers weren't worth $15k and shut your wallet right up.

 

[marc mc]

It could hit the ground...

Semantics.

marc mc

 

[uxwbill]

Your responces are greatly appreciated, and thanks in advance.

I'd say "no". In the stable of receivers I have, I perceive all of them to have slightly different sounds. While I have not done a proper blinded test, I have played different receivers into the same sets of speakers (since I have many more receivers than speakers to choose from).

For some the difference is subtle and could be attributed to my own biases. (All of my class AB Technics receivers seem to have very little differences that I might be imagining.) For others, like the one tube-type piece of hi-fi equipment I have, the difference seemed a lot more striking compared to SS equipment playing through the same modest Sansui speakers.

When it's all said and done, though, I'd lump nearly every receiver I have into "sounds good to my ears", including the tube-type one (an Allied Radio/Knight unit from 1959). Only one sits out on the edges, and that is the Sony STR-DH100. It's a thoughtfully designed receiver in terms of inputs (there are a lot, plus one iPod dock input) and firmware, but I find the sound harsh and very raw unless I use the tone controls. If there is a flaw, the STR-DH100 brings it out.

Who knows? Maybe it's the most "honest" sounding receiver I have. Yet if that's what honesty sounds like, I think I'd rather hear a little fibbing (or "coloration") in the audio.

 

[JohnVF]

I'm about to experiment with a 140wpc Class-D amp (actually, multi-channel receiver with B&O ICE amplification)...it will be interesting how different, or how similar it sounds to what I have in my other systems. I really have no bias whether it will or not, although I really hope it sounds good as it will be taking the place of one of my 2-channel analogue stereo rigs.

 

[Brett a]

Well, if the fact that not many people here even know what an an amplifier is, its no surprise there's no agreement.

A quick Google search of many of the models referred to in this thread as references aren't amplifiers--they are receivers and/or integrated amps.

There's no way you can know for certain what the amp in your receiver sounds like unless you can isolate it from the preamp and tuner that it shares the case with.

Is there any chance you know where the results of the blind test were originally published? I'd love to be able to have a look at the original data.

Here are a few links*--forgive me if they have been offered here already
*The views expressed in these links are those of the authors and not of Brett A in general. --viewer digression is advised.

http://webpages.charter.net/fryguy/Amp_Sound.pdf
http://home.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_data.htm
http://www.mastersonaudio.com/audio/20020901.htm
http://www.matrixhifi.com/contenedor_ppec_eng.htm
And this one has a pretty comprehensive menu of links to articles supporting the objectivists' arguments:
http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/wisdom.html

All solid state amps sound exactly the same.

It's what comes out of them that sounds different.

We have a winner!

 

[Coytee]

Their dying screams all sounded the same?

Yes but they were screams of glee from the wife thinking she was finally getting rid of some 'clutter' :scratch2:

 

[JoeESP9]

Feanor who is a regular on the AR forum has built a Class D amp using a kit from Class D Audio. He says it sounds better than his Monarchy SM-70 Pro's and the Belcanto's he traded for the Monarchy's. The price/power makes it worth a look
250 WPC@8 Ohms ~$400
The picture is of the one he built.

Very tidy looking!

 

[RayW]

I really have no bias whether it will or not, although I really hope it sounds good

Ummm...that is a bias. :yes:

 

[uxwbill]

viewer digression is advised.

Digression?

Very well, I'm off to clean the bird bath now.

Sorry, I have a warped sense of humor. The intention was to be funny, not insulting. I hope it came across the right way. Although I guess if I have to explain it, my attempt at humor failed.

 

[JohnVF]

Ummm...that is a bias. :yes:

Yeah, you're right. I should say I have no predisposed opinion of how it will sound or anything against it because it's an AV receiver. And yes Brett, I know its not an amp...but rather has Class-D amplification inside.

 

[RayW]

Yeah, you're right.

I'm glad we understand each other.

Nah, I'm not quite that egocentric. I'm interested to hear what you think of it. I have a fascination with class D stuff but I'm not sure why. Just a technogeek, I guess.

 

[aidynphoenix]

yea all amps are the same.. just like all cars with 8 cylinder engines are just as fast as eachother.. although some have superchargers, some have oil leakes and are missing the exhaust pipes, but they will all run at the exact same speed.


in all seriousness..
how could a cheap 15w parts express amplifier sound anything like the Lamborghini Reventon of audio amplifiers?

 

[Brett a]

Digression?

Very well, I'm off to clean the bird bath now.

Sorry, I have a warped sense of humor. The intention was to be funny, not insulting. I hope it came across the right way. Although I guess if I have to explain it, my attempt at humor failed.

It's all fun and games until someone pokes an eye out. (Then it's still fun and games, just not for the person with one eye)

And, that's funny, because I thought I caught that typo in my spell-check and actually considered leaving it "viewer digression". I intended to correct it, but I must have gotten distracted.

 

[JohnVF]

I'm glad we understand each other.

Nah, I'm not quite that egocentric. I'm interested to hear what you think of it. I have a fascination with class D stuff but I'm not sure why. Just a technogeek, I guess.

I've been really curious about Class-D for a while.

I can say that the big NAD digital amp (the M2) is excellent. I've spent a lot of time listening to one at a local dealer and it really is something special.

 

[signal-dude]

I believe so. I rotate three different receivers for use and the Yamaha CR-1020 has a different sound than the Marantz 2265b or 2250. The 2250 sounds different from the 2265b. Of course they're all different in the watts per channel category.

Careful guys, a receiver with a built in pre-amp will always have its own sound thats mostly determined by the pre-amp. The OP asked about AMP's sounding different.

 

[whoaru99]

in all seriousness..
how could a cheap 15w parts express amplifier sound anything like the Lamborghini Reventon of audio amplifiers?

Instead of asking "how could it", perhaps the real question is "why should it".

As in, why should amplifiers sound different? IMHO, they shouldn't if for no other reason than the basic philosophy of an amp...make a small signal into an identical, albeit larger one.

 

[Will S.]

I think there's a tendency among audiophiles to overrate their hearing ability and underrate the effects of cognitive bias for quite understandable reasons. At the very least, it's safe to say that controlled listening tests have not revealed the differences that some audiophiles insist exist. Now perhaps there's a fundamental problem with blind testing protocols that masks the differences, but the lack of any physical theory to explain the perceived differences is rather glaring.

 

[Doug G.]

There is so much misunderstanding, misinformation, and outright lying whenever this subject recurs.

The original premise was/is NOT that all amplifiers sound the same. It was/is not even that all amplifiers sound the same if they are working within spec.

The assertion was/is that all amplifiers whose outputs MEASURE the same during a given test going into the same speakers sound the same.

This is most certainly true and has been proven in several DBT ABX tests.

Also, the automotive analogies are very poor.

Doug

 

[davidro]

This thread is getting real helpful in many ways.

I wonder however if anyone actually has a set-up that uses a cheapo amp to drive disproportionately expensive speakers? Care to share your experiences? When I can afford really good speakers I'm really tempted to try that.