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Do I need a Quad Receiver for this Cocktail Bar?

S

Stierwalt

New Member
Hey! Long time, first time. I’ve searched the forums and can’t find this specific question. If you read this and think “this guy is going about this problem all wrong,” please point me in the right direction!

I’m opening a cocktail bar this winter. 1200sqft, main room is about 1000sf. It’s a shotgun style space, intimate, dark, 60 seats. There is a front loud zone and a quiet(er) back zone. I want a vintage hifi receiver to be a focal point behind the bar, powering large wall-mounted bookshelf speakers in both zones (looking at Wharfdale Linton maybe? Will decide after choosing amp). I need to power 4 speakers, all in mono. So I’m looking for a unit with A+B zones and a Mono button.

QUESTION 1: I need to adjust the volume between the front and back room. Adjusting levels for A and B speaker sets doesn’t seem to be common in these. BUT, with Mono output can I just assign A+B Right Channel to the front room and A+B Left Channel to the back room, then adjust the volume in each room with the Channel Balance on the unit?

QUESTION 2: I’ve gone down the rabbit hole of options from a Pioneer, Marantz, and Sansui. The problem I’m running into is that some receivers (Like the 2270, which has an A +B option) do not seem to be designed to run two zones constantly, and apparently can cause damage to the unit. I’ve read about Quad/Quadraphonic amps, but I’m not familiar with them. Is this my solution here?

QUESTION 2.5: Does anyone have a specific amp or line of amps I should look at for this application?

For instance — I looked at a Sansui AU-9500 today. I can’t figure out if it is designed to constantly run 4 x speakers at once, if the 75w @8ohm rated power will be applied to all 4 channels, or if it will be cut in half with 2 zones running at once.

Thank you for reading this, and I would greatly appreciate any help! Also again, if you’re reading this and thinking I’m going about this problem wrong, let me know.
 
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You don't want a quad receiver for this application, nor would I recommend running A+B speakers from a stereo receiver in this situation.

What I'd recommend is your choice of a vintage stereo receiver, feeding the A speakers to a speaker switch such as those made by Niles, Russound or Speakercraft. Many of those have level adjustments built-in so you can balance the zones, along with amplifier protection circuitry built-in.
 
1tumbleweed said:
You don't want a quad receiver for this application, nor would I recommend running A+B speakers from a stereo receiver in this situation.

What I'd recommend is your choice of a vintage stereo receiver, feeding the A speakers to a speaker switch such as those made by Niles, Russound or Speakercraft. Many of those have level adjustments built-in so you can balance the zones, along with amplifier protection circuitry built-in.
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Thank you! I knew there was an obvious route I was missing.
 
You will need0 a receiver with enough power to achieve desired volume with chosen speakers.

The higher a speaker's sensitivity rating, the less power you need to achieve a given volume. 9

If you go with the external speaker selector solution, both pairs of speakers should be connected to it to assure that the combined impedance (load) doesn't drop below 4 ohms.

There are no mass-market receivers of which I am aware capable of handling impedance of below 4 ohms...and some can't even do that.

On a related note; you will want to assure that the receiver you choose has its A and B terminals wired in parallel, not in series.
 
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I highly recommend heading over to Tokyo and checking out their bar scene. Cool vintage stereos and turntables are in just about every place but a ton of them have Mac's and huge vintage JBL's, most places are similar in size to what your looking at but it doesn't stop them from buying the big stuff. This place was neat, you can see the two Macs, I think the TT's were 1200's but I can't remember. What you can't see is a cubby with a stack of more Mac's, the DJ said he liked to rotate the different amps depending on his mood. Most bars are like this with concrete walls but with some tonic, the music sounds great.

Records are a givin, they are a great conversation piece, most places have a few dozen like this, some places even put them out on the floor for the customers to look through, some bars even have agreements with local used record stores to stock (and sell) used records that they can also play.


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You don't want a vintage stereo receiver at all!

You want a preamplifier like a Parasound Zpre and two power amplifiers like QSC GX3 or GX5, one amplifier channel per speaker. New and warranteed is the best way for commercial service.

Receivers were always compromises intended for non-critical light duty home use. None are worth buying at their market prices. Marantz sounds the worst, Nakamichi and Tandberg are tied for the top spot in my book. They're also now 50 years old, and as such require extensive rebuilds to ensure continued reliability.
 
He said he wants a vintage receiver.

He could use the receiver as a preamp, driving pro power amps (which could be hidden away); one amp for the speakers in the front zone and one amp for the speakers in the back zone.

This way he gets the looks of the vintage unit and the power, reliability and impedance handling of the pro amps.

And if he gets power amps with gain controls, he would have the ability to control volume independently in each zone.

OP, this would require a receiver with preamp-out connections. Pretty common.

You could even have its power supply and preamp sections restored, for reliability.
 
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If you're going strictly mono, perhaps a commercial-grade mono tuner, PA amplifier feeding PA speakers via hi-level input of 70 or 100v line would be good. You'll likely not run out of volume capacity( unless yer nuts & want to chase off your clientele) with such a setup. Added plus- you can add speakers later if your space enlarges with no problem.
 
Catmanboo said:
If you're going strictly mono, perhaps a commercial-grade mono tuner, PA amplifier feeding PA speakers via hi-level input of 70 or 100v line would be good. You'll likely not run out of volume capacity( unless yer nuts & want to chase off your clientele) with such a setup. Added plus- you can add speakers later if your space enlarges with no problem.
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He wants to use a vintage receiver.
 
Catmanboo said:
Got that, but he may be asking for problems in doing so, especially if there'll be a tendency to throttle up as the evening progresses.
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Using one as a preamp/front end solves any issues with power, impedance and zone volume control. As mentioned earlier, rebuilding its power supply and preamp sections would address reliability concerns. Heck, my old Marantz 1060 was powered on for over 20 years straight (with the exception of the occasional power failure) without a hiccup.

And because he would be using it only as a preamp, OP would not need to spend the big $$ associated with higher-powered vintage receivers.
 
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In a commercial establishment, it is probably not a good idea to use vintage equipment unless it has been completely restored so there is very little chance of failure. Better to use new stuff under warranty as others have noted.

Doug
 
Another hybrid option....

Use the receiver as the power and volume control for the bar area speakers, where the receiver would be visible and perhaps a topic of conversation for patrons and bartender(s). Use the receiver's tape out jacks as a feed for another amp with built in volume control, integrated amp, or even a second vintage receiver to power the back room speakers.
 
spark1 said:
He said he wants a vintage receiver.

He could use the receiver as a preamp, driving pro power amps (which could be hidden away); one amp for the speakers in the front zone and one amp for the speakers in the back zone.

This way he gets the looks of the vintage unit and the power, reliability and impedance handling of the pro amps.

And if he gets power amps with gain controls, he would have the ability to control volume independently in each zone.

OP, this would require a receiver with preamp-out connections. Pretty common.

You could even have its power supply and preamp sections restored, for reliability.
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Totally agree use a high quality vintage receiver for the preamp my sta2080 was designed to be used as a stand alone receiver or a preamp ! 2 phono 2 tape and an a aux input plus a 4 gang tuner ! Plus it’s got the vintage look 4 meters crystal bezel brushed aluminum face plate wood sides , the look of power and class!
 
All Mcintosh MAC series recievers will do what you want. The later units will handle 3 pairs down to 2.5 ohms and with Power guard you will probably be good down to 2 ohms. Look up the Mcintosh Compendium to find the model you need There are at least 6 or7 to choose from.
 
vinyldavid said:
"I want a vintage receiver" is code for "I don't care about audio quality or reliability, only about looks".

For a commercial business, I wouldn't dream of putting one in. If you must, as another suggested, take the preamp out of whatever you find and use modern power amps.
I did this once for a store that insisted on a SX-3900, and the owner was happy.

"I want a vintage Ford Mustang" is great until you have to drive it every day for DoorDash, pay for 12mpg of fuel, have it in the shop every couple months with some problem, and deal with vapor lock, minimal creature comforts, winter driving of a classic car, and getting the doors blown off you by a Camry :)
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My receiver has worked very well over the last 40 yrs and is designed to be repaired as needed with no obslete chips or power modules ! A very solid unit with mainstream parts ! When last checked last year the only updating was the speaker relays and leds for the display ! And they were working when changed as a precaution ,
 
1tumbleweed said:
You don't want a quad receiver for this application, nor would I recommend running A+B speakers from a stereo receiver in this situation.

What I'd recommend is your choice of a vintage stereo receiver, feeding the A speakers to a speaker switch such as those made by Niles, Russound or Speakercraft. Many of those have level adjustments built-in so you can balance the zones, along with amplifier protection circuitry built-in.
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Yeah, that;'s the way that I would go and what I've done to run speakers to two different spots in my house. I have a little Niles unit that has two speaker outs, two separate volume controls (that I never actually use) and most importantly, a speaker protection switch that useful in the rare instance when I run both sets of speakers together on account of the fact that my Marantz 2270 can't deal with the load from the two sets that I have hooked up, unless I have that switch on. That switch though does eat up some of the fidelity though, unfortunately. As much as I like the 2270, I agree with you that it may not be ideal for a situation where you want to run two sets of speakers that are going to be on most or all of the time. I wil say though that the receiver is cable of running (or at least I believe that it is) a couple of sets of 8 ohm speakers together so it could work with just the right type of speakers...
 
vinyldavid said:
"I want a vintage receiver" is code for "I don't care about audio quality or reliability, only about looks".

For a commercial business, I wouldn't dream of putting one in. If you must, as another suggested, take the preamp out of whatever you find and use modern power amps.
I did this once for a store that insisted on a SX-3900, and the owner was happy.

"I want a vintage Ford Mustang" is great until you have to drive it every day for DoorDash, pay for 12mpg of fuel, have it in the shop every couple months with some problem, and deal with vapor lock, minimal creature comforts, winter driving of a classic car, and getting the doors blown off you by a Camry :)
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The OP wants to use a vintage receiver. Some of us are making suggestions as to how to best do that.

In a bar setting, absolute sound quality is not much of an issue, and a decent old receiver will be more than adequate in that regard. I've heard some pretty crappy commercial sound systems in restaurants and bars.

Heck, if he goes the route of a receiver as preamp and a couple of relatively inexpensive pro amps for power, he can go with 6-8 speakers for better coverage and balance.
 
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