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Do Linn Sondeks Live Up To The Hype?

grottyash said:
I don't agree with this. The Akito arm responds well to new bearings and a service - audioorigami are the people to use - and refurbished matches both the arms you mention. The Ittok is the classic arm, although I'm inclined to think the Roksan Nima may be just as good.
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yep, if the Akito has good bearings in it, it's a fine arm. However, cart matching to it is what can give the arm a bad name, as it is a light medium arm of 10-11 gr EM. The Jelco recommendation is a medium to light heavy arm which is generally needed for low compliance carts. And, I agree that audioorigami is the place for service should an Akito need it.
 
Gary is close to St Catharines and I recommend you give him a call.Try looking up Better Music in St Catharines Ont and his phone number ect should come up. Cheers Wayne
 
alectrevelya said:
I have decided that the final turntable upgrade will be a Linn LP12. That way I can stop obsessing over turntables.
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I once thought exactly the same thing. Get an LP12 and that will be the end of it. So I bought one and upgraded the arm to the Roksan Nima MKII tonearm ('Poor Man's Niam Aro). It was a great combination, it looks fantastic and sounded great too. But I tried it head to head with some of my other tables running two identical new albums (Ok it was Adele) and switched back and forth between them using a Sansui 11000A integrated amp (dual phono inputs) and I was unable to pick a clear outstanding winner. I kept the other tables and sold the Linn. I was unable to justify to myself the cost of the table when I already had tables that for me were just as good. Hint: One of them was an Ariston RD11. I also didn't stop obsessing over turntables as I have just got a 12" Jelco arm to try on one of the other keepers a Garrard 301 with Hadcock GH228 Unipivot.
 
Does the LP12 live up to the hype? Not in my books. Average build quality and sound but with an exorbitant price tag. Nothing in it's design suggests anything out of the ordinary. Yet if the hype and sound are appealing to you, nothing else will do.
 
Did a comparison between a friends tricked out LP12 (including Naim Aro with Lyra Kleos and an CNC'd sub chassis) against my Well Tempered Versalex which had a Dynavector XX2MK2 at that time.

The LP12, which I had heard many times previously, was certainly very good and they were quite different, but we could not decide if one was better - so we had another beer and listened to some more music.
 
You will notice that the extremely well-informed Linn Guru from the link to the Linn site, offers no needle drops nor does he prove any of what he says to anyone. Despite that, his advice is accurate and stands the test because you can replicate his findings by repeating what he does. Some feel that anyone who offers advice, which goes beyond their understanding, must prove to them that the advice works. They may even ask for needle drops thinking that this in and of itself 'proves' the nature of the advice. Sometimes advice is simply correct and provable by replication. Sometimes that is not enough for those who cannot comprehend.
 
Needle drops would be useless unless they were pretty high res (CD or better) when evaluating something at the level of a well appointed and set up LP12.
 
You could save some money and source a very similar table like an Ariston RD11, RD80 or RD110. They have the same ancestry as the LP12

Here's my Ariston RD110 SL. Photo taken last weekend :)

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Similar, but not the same. The Linn bearing is far better than those in the Aristons, plus the product has evolved where Ariston reached a full stop.
 
there's one of the "hyped" ideas behind the Linn mystic . The bearing. One of my tables, the thrust is Tungsten Carbide on sapphire plate. About as hard, un wearable, as it gets. Main well sleeve is phosphor bronze. The other table is polished 304 stainless on delrin plate, main well is lead babbitt The second table is quieter. Has a longer spin down time with equal mass, same oil in both. Both tables are belt drive, spring suspension with identical springs and hardware, identical belts and pulleys.
 
I own an LP-12 (have for 30+ years) and as has already been mentioned--there is no specific LP-12. There are so many iterations/generations/modifications to actually define it down to a single model. It is however an "iconic" table (much like the much hyped Technics SL1200), that can be the basis for virtually unlimited mods/upgrades/changes. I love mine, and I will probably never sell it, but will it compare to something brand new out of the box 30 years later?--no way in hell--it is tricked out to the limits of where I want to go--which has involved 30 years and thousands of dollars--so consider it a "good starting point" or "template" upon which to build upon--a "blank canvas", so to speak.

Good Luck!!!
 
marcmorin said:
there's one of the "hyped" ideas behind the Linn mystic . The bearing. One of my tables, the thrust is Tungsten Carbide on sapphire plate. About as hard, un wearable, as it gets. Main well sleeve is phosphor bronze. The other table is polished 304 stainless on delrin plate, main well is lead babbitt The second table is quieter. Has a longer spin down time with equal mass, same oil in both. Both tables are belt drive, spring suspension with identical springs and hardware, identical belts and pulleys.
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Not hype, mm ! It's the tolerances that make the bearing what it is - Roy Gandy was once quoted as saying he couldn't produce a turntable for the cost of the precision engineering in the LP12 bearing!
 
Past a point of fit and finish, doesn't the lubricant isolate the surfaces regardless of the thrust support point?
 
grottyash said:
Not hype, mm ! It's the tolerances that make the bearing what it is - Roy Gandy was once quoted as saying he couldn't produce a turntable for the cost of the precision engineering in the LP12 bearing!
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One of his turntables, yes, but that's not saying much.
 
Pio1980 said:
Past a point of fit and finish, doesn't the lubricant isolate the surfaces regardless of the thrust support point?
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for everything not at point of thrust. As that point, the amount of PSI pushes lubrication away. Only so much surface tension in oil before it ruptures. I'm not trying to disparage the Linn table, it is a fine table. I was just clarifying my position to the question asked to open this thread. The bearing assembly is "hyped". Nothing at all wrong with it mind you. But to claim that making it in such a way makes it superior to all for what its job really is, is marketing. I have no issue with them taking the time and trouble to machine to a certain tolerance, bravo actually. A sleeve to spindle clearance of 0.001 vs 0.0015 does what exactly?
 
I dunno if a Kingsbury oil trust bearing was ever used on a turntable of any design, but there were a few pneumatics based on Bruce Thigpen's origional design for the Infinity turntable on through the Colony and Mapleknoll.
 
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