• Please note that Audiokarma will be offline briefly for updates early on Monday morning, September 28th.

Do you run a sub in your 2 channel system?

cubdog

cubdog

banging through drywall
I seem to go back and forth. Properly integrated I like what a sub can do for a 2 channel set up. Since I got my Sony SS-M7 speakers I have not used a sub. Whenever I get new speakers I like to get to know them, their strengths and weaknesses, without adding a sub to the mix. I've had the Sony's for about four months now so I thought it time to add the sub into the equation. I have four subs all of mediocre quality. Not bad but certainly nothing to build a system around. Anyway two are seeing HT service, one is boxed up and the fourth was already in my listening room from prior use. It's a Mirage BP-150 which uses dual 8 inch woofers and is 150 watts. I've had difficulty integrating this sub in the past. It was originally purchased to use with DQ10s but that didn't work out so well. Anyway I'm pretty happy with the way it sounds with the Sony's. It is crossed at about 70 Hz although I'm still playing with the levels. The most noticeable difference is at higher volume. More slam and I like what I'm hearing in the mid range which seems a bit cleaner.
So guys, sub or no sub? If so, what speakers and sub are you using? What do you like and dislike about using a sub? If your not using a sub in your system why not? Thanks for the feedback!

cubdog
 
Register to hide this ad
I go back and forth too. Right now my Definitive BP2000s are in rotation in the great room so there's no need. Or rather I'm already running two 15" subs.

When I'm listening to a pair of speakers (for example, after a recent purchase, after a cap swap, to compare to other speakers) I don't. But when listening to music I do. I run a 12" sub in my bedroom full time when playing music there.

2 channel is all I listen to anymore. No home theater for me. Dropped my cable and sold my TV over 18 months ago. I've had enough of Hollyweird.

In the great room I have two 10" Velodyne F-1000 servo subs. In the bedroom I have a 12" Velodyne DLS-4000R.
 
Yes, two of them sometimes. Currently using a pair of Mirage Omni-S8s with JBL Synthesis Array 800 speakers. I cross them over at or near the lowest setting on the sub crossover and have learned to keep the volume level on each sub much lower than is intuitive.
 
No Subs needed!I get tremendous Bass as it is!
As a former Bass Player who used Double 18" Peavey Black Widows(3620 Cabs) powered by Peavey MAX(1000Watts) Head I'm kinda bias to Bass:)
 
I haven't needed subs recently, but when I do I love my pair of MJK OB H-frames. Strong output down to the low 30's and just about as musical a sub as I have ever heard. Next on the list is a pair of slot loaded open baffles with four AE IB15's I have sitting around.
 
I fear / believe that until I get main speakers that will go flat to 20 Hz, I will always want a sub. I hear uber-low frequencies with my sub that I simply cannot hear on any of the main speakers I've tried, including JBL 250Tis and 4430s. I'm sure there are main speakers that go flat to 20 Hz, but I don't have any of them.
 
I have with my minimus 7's. Sounded very nice, but my son is using the sub now with his NAD 20's. He loves bass heavy Dub step.
 
I used to go back and forth (with and without a sub). I like 2-channel audio quality better without a sub, but I sometimes miss that low bass.

That was until I got the Anthony Gallo 3.5 speakers. Very unique as they have dual binding posts, but they aren't like typical speakers with dual binding posts (e.g. no jumpers needed). The top binding post of the Gallo 3.5 speakers is for full range sound. You would connect this to any amplifier to drive the speakers full range.

The 2nd set of binding posts (the lower ones) go to the 2nd voice coil of the woofer (10" sealed). Yup, the woofer is a dual voice coil design (these were popular in the old car audio days). You can connect a 2nd amplifier directly to the 2nd biding post as long as you use a x-over (either passive or preferably active). Gallo actually makes an amplifier which has it's own active x-over just for this purpose.

The 2nd amplifier really lets you control the bass output of the speaker. It's not necessary as the top binding post already delivers full frequency sound, but adding the 2nd amp is like adding a subwoofer. Per the Gallo specs, the speaker will go down to about 25Hz with the addition of a 2nd amp.

And we all know how speaker placement can affect bass performance. With the addition of a 2nd amp, you can really control the bass output and have to worry less about optimum speaker placement.

I have no idea why other manufacturers haven't followed suit. I've owned a lot of different speakers and these Gallo's are my favorite so far.
 
I run three subs in my main setup and two in my computer setup. Every speaker I've ever heard benefits from well integrated multiple subwoofers. Many single sub setups sound worse than no sub at all, but multiple subs can give really smooth low bass response. The other night when I was playing the little Pioneer bookshelves, you couldn't tell at all that I had three subs, it just sounded like the Pioneers had tremendous bass for their size.

Most rooms acoustics won't allow for flat 20hz response from the mains even if they technically were capable of it, and multiple subs helps in that regard a lot.
 
HamDog said:
I used to go back and forth (with and without a sub). I like 2-channel audio quality better without a sub, but I sometimes miss that low bass.

That was until I got the Anthony Gallo 3.5 speakers. Very unique as they have dual binding posts, but they aren't like typical speakers with dual binding posts (e.g. no jumpers needed). The top binding post of the Gallo 3.5 speakers is for full range sound. You would connect this to any amplifier to drive the speakers full range.

The 2nd set of binding posts (the lower ones) go to the 2nd voice coil of the woofer (10" sealed). Yup, the woofer is a dual voice coil design (these were popular in the old car audio days). You can connect a 2nd amplifier directly to the 2nd biding post as long as you use a x-over (either passive or preferably active). Gallo actually makes an amplifier which has it's own active x-over just for this purpose.

The 2nd amplifier really lets you control the bass output of the speaker. It's not necessary as the top binding post already delivers full frequency sound, but adding the 2nd amp is like adding a subwoofer. Per the Gallo specs, the speaker will go down to about 25Hz with the addition of a 2nd amp.

And we all know how speaker placement can affect bass performance. With the addition of a 2nd amp, you can really control the bass output and have to worry less about optimum speaker placement.

I have no idea why other manufacturers haven't followed suit. I've owned a lot of different speakers and these Gallo's are my favorite so far.
Click to expand...

whew They look nice with the "grills"on-(if they can be referred to as grills-
,that is.i'd like to hear,much less own a pair of those(3.5's)
 
Absolutely. I just got another one after not having one for a long time, and I have no idea how I did it this long without!
 
BOUXY said:
No Subs needed!I get tremendous Bass as it is!
As a former Bass Player who used Double 18" Peavey Black Widows(3620 Cabs) powered by Peavey MAX(1000Watts) Head I'm kinda bias to Bass:)
Click to expand...

I wear earplugs when I play just so I can HEAR the bass-player (I'm a guitarist who plays tube amps). The low-end is essential to the groove. The better everybody can hear each other, the better they play together (Only to a point though... I believe in using your own amp as a monitor, rather than being wired into some Bose digital system with little baby monitors... Believe me, I've tried it... Ya' gotta' have those tubes a' glowin' and speakers movin', otherwise it takes all the heart and soul out of the mix).

As far as home hi-fi goes, I prefer a speaker that really-doesn't need it. My W90's won't do the 18hz thing, but they definitely got bass, that's for sure. All that I need. The woofer-section in the lower part of the cabinet is VERY-well-dampened (That sand-filled thing is no joke) and also fully-isolated from the mid/tweeter section up top, plus the woofers are also isolated from each other. It's an old-school sound. Works very-well for the kind of music I listen to on a regular basis.

I've heard from a lot of people that external subwoofers don't really work well with the kind of old-school speakers I like. I've never tried one with my W90's, but I have to think it would be a bear to try and match an external sub to the tonality of the alnico Wharfedale woofers.

One thing I've noticed in regards to speaker-sound is how important proper distancing is in regards to throwing out a good, even stereo image. When something's off, I check my distances, and usually that's the problem. You bump a speaker on your way to the bathroom, it can throw everything off (When ya' gotta' go, ya' gotta' go).
 
Last edited:
The only speakers I've ever heard that wouldn't benefit from the addition of one or more sub woofers are assaults on the state of the art. Infinity IRS-Vs, Apogee Grand, Pipe Dreams, Genesis 1s and others in the same category don't need sub woofers because they have sub woofers as part of the speaker system.

I have four sub woofers in three cabinets. One is a dual sub in one cabinet. As a result my system is relatively flat to 18Hz. There are very few affordable speakers that go that low without augmenting the low end with one of more sub woofers.

Like a couple of other posters I also play the bass. That's one of the main reasons I was inclined to look into sub woofers in the first place.
 
BOUXY said:
No Subs needed!I get tremendous Bass as it is!
As a former Bass Player who used Double 18" Peavey Black Widows(3620 Cabs) powered by Peavey MAX(1000Watts) Head I'm kinda bias to Bass:)
Click to expand...

P/S Yes I power 60's Wharfedales W90's(very efficient) with a Marantz 2385 (185 Watts X 2) and yes use only a few Watts to protect them although they can handle a good 10 Watts easily but usually only need 1-2 Watts and with so much "Headroom" the Bass is tremendous partially because 1 Woofer handles the Low Bass and the other the Mid Bass and I can hear and feel that Low Bass quite easily nice and tight as well as clean! :):thmbsp:
 
I use two Shelby+Kroll Woofer Monitors to augment the S+K Nano Monitors. The Monitors drop off at 100hz and I have the subs dialed in there for seamless integration. I'm also using a Dspeaker Antimode Dual Core 2.0 as a preamp and for room correction. Bass is close to flat at 30hz and 2db down at 20hz.
 
I just built a passive sub to run on the B channel of my marantz 2230, with my AR18's hooked up to the A channel....I like it, the sub driver I have is almost perfectly matched in SPL output, so it integrates well, and gives me the last 20-30 hz the AR18's can't quite get to
 
JoeESP9 said:
The only speakers I've ever heard that wouldn't benefit from the addition of one or more sub woofers are assaults on the state of the art. Infinity IRS-Vs, Apogee Grand, Pipe Dreams, Genesis 1s and others in the same category don't need sub woofers because they have sub woofers as part of the speaker system.

I have four sub woofers in three cabinets. One is a dual sub in one cabinet. As a result my system is relatively flat to 18Hz. There are very few affordable speakers that go that low without augmenting the low end with one of more sub woofers.

Like a couple of other posters I also play the bass. That's one of the main reasons I was inclined to look into sub woofers in the first place.
Click to expand...

I totally-understand your point, but what do you use for a sub with an alnico-driver-loaded system from the early '60's? To match something to a vintage dual 12" speaker like mine would involve some kind of multi-tier (and maybe multi-amp) thing. Like adding an extra tier to a two-tier system. I see people doing it with OB designs, but even if I could get it to work (in this room), I just don't have the money (or the know-how) for that yet. Busy enjoying what I have for the moment.
 
BOUXY said:
P/S Yes I power 60's Wharfedales W90's(very efficient) with a Marantz 2385 (185 Watts X 2) and yes use only a few Watts to protect them although they can handle a good 10 Watts easily but usually only need 1-2 Watts and with so much "Headroom" the Bass is tremendous partially because 1 Woofer handles the Low Bass and the other the Mid Bass and I can hear and feel that Low Bass quite easily nice and tight as well as clean! :):thmbsp:
Click to expand...

I'm the same way. I like a little volume occasionally, but usually it's just background music with a pulse. Plus, I have neighbors, so I keep the volume within reason (although, being 10:30 right now and about the time I usually start kicking the volume down, it's about the last thing I want to do right now... It would be so-easy to crank it up right now, but I prefer to be respectful, even though my neighbors aren't always the same way).

The only place where I ever notice the low-lows missing or not being loud/controlled-enough is on modern, post-millenium rap and techno, and I basically hate post-millenium rap (at least from the last 8 years), and I wouldn't expect a speaker to be perfect with that kind of music AND the old stuff all at the same time. Apples and oranges, I would think. Right now I'm listening to Jeff Beck's "I Ain't Superstitious" on the original stereo LP, and the sound is heaven... The drums sound incredible.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom