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Does this make any difference?

Hail Vinyl!

Hail Vinyl!

Active Member
Hi. Thank you in advance for reading.

I regularly check that my turntable's tonearm tracking force is correctly set in spite of the counterweight reading. I have a digital gram scale like this one for that task, but I'm wondering if something like this makes any difference. As you can see, the latter gauge allows for the cartridge to be at approximately the same height as if it were playing a record, while the former's thickness puts the cartridge/tonearm at a higher height. Do you think that height difference affects the actual tracking force reading? I'm curious about this. Thank you in advance for your input!
 
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It makes a difference; measuring the vtf with the tonearm elevated will give a higher force reading.
 
Hail Vinyl! said:
Hi. Thank you in advance for reading.

I regularly check that my turntable's tonearm tracking force is correctly set in spite of the counterweight reading. I have a digital gram scale like this one for that task, but I'm wondering if something like this makes any difference. As you can see, the latter gauge allows for the cartridge to be at approximately the same height as if it were playing a record, while the former's thickness puts the cartridge/tonearm at a higher height. Do you think that height difference affects the actual tracking force reading? I'm curious about this. Thank you in advance for your input!
Click to expand...

A slight difference in height will most likely not effect the VTF with much. As the cartridge has its mass centre below the centre of the arm, lifting the arm will very slightly increase the downforce. But the stylus has its position even lower, so the force on the stylus will decrease even more.

I have not measured the difference, but ought to be a very slightly lower force on the needle when lifting say 10mm.

If using an underslung counterweight things will be different.
gusten

Edit: Did a quick approximation for my cartridge and arm, a lower force of say o.03gf when tracking at 2.0gf should be expexted when lifting 20mm. Really nothing.
 
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I have both, almost identical to yours. To use the first type I removed the platter so the bed was record height. Not convenient.

I got one similar to the one you are looking at for about $10 on ebay because it wasn't labelled stylus guage :-). It is easier to use and sits at record height. I put felt on the pad to protect the stylus, then zeroed tare to compensate for the felt.


Mine is similar to this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100g-x-0-01...=US_Pocket_Digital_Scales&hash=item2a2a047b10
 
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I've read about this quite a lot and most all say it makes a dif.
What I started doing is taking the platter mat off and doing that puts the gauge at just about the right height for mine.
 
I've had a consistent .1 + gram dif between elevated and level when I use my digital scale.
 
Yes, you have discovered torque... :thmbsp:

I use a digital scale to set my vtf but my arm has a large height-adjustment range so I can raise it to the level of the scale.
 
I thought about this myself because I was gonna pick up a scale at HF.

Could'nt you get a piece of plastic, aluminum or whatever and bend it to sort of a z shape. Then use double sided tape to stick it to the scale bed/table so it hangs over the edge and drops down to the side. Wouldn't that lower the height ?
 
Exactly

gusten said:
A slight difference in height will most likely not effect the VTF with much.
Edit: Did a quick approximation for my cartridge and arm, a lower force of say o.03gf when tracking at 2.0gf should be expexted when lifting 20mm. Really nothing.
Click to expand...

Exactly....3 hundredths of a gram is like a spec of paper on the scale...Negligible...
 
beej said:
I've had a consistent .1 + gram dif between elevated and level when I use my digital scale.
Click to expand...

You mean it measures 0.1 grams more when lifting the arm? Probably is the mass centre of the cartridge rather low in that case.
gusten
 
Raising the angle from parallel will absolutely change the measured VTF. You may consider this change to be negligible, but lets not dismiss known verifiable physics principles as "myth"... :tongue:
 
Okay

OldSch00l said:
Raising the angle from parallel will absolutely change the measured VTF. You may consider this change to be negligible, but lets not dismiss known verifiable physics principles as "myth"... :tongue:
Click to expand...

Perhaps MYTH was a poor choice of words - how about extreme exaggeration ? So much so as to make it a myth that YOU MUST be at the same height as the platter ? :D
 
This has only to do with how the different mass centres move in relation to the pivot.

For an underslung counterweight that moves much closer to the pivot when lifting the arm, the reading on the scale when lifting the arm will be considerably higher.
gusten
 
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I'm cool

No underslung counterwieghts on any of my arms, and I can live with .1 gram error.

Call me crazy
 
I've never bothered to try this one. The stylus would sit about 1" above the platter and the scale appears to be in 1 gram increments. :no:

Looks cool though.

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I believe it makes a difference. My digital scale is about 3/4" thick, at first I was just sitting it on the platter and setting VTF. Then read somewhere that it should be done with the arm in as close to the same playing position as possible.....and I found I was off, too heavy.
So now I just measure VTF by setting the scale on the side of the platter built up so it is at the same height....I now feel better about my settings, more accurate.
 
It's cheap, but works great. With my tables the scale sits as the same level as the mat and a average LP combined. Takes about 3 weeks to arrive on the slow boat from China.
 
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