Douk Chi-Fi clone phono preamp - EAR 834P ?

[MisterDK]

Not sure about the 2109... We've sourced the 2101A

Thanks. Just to try one out and play with swapping internal parts, I bought a 2101A today. $35 shipped is cheap enough to try one, I think. Supposed to be here by the weekend. Been reading up a bit on doing some mods to ‘em.
Also may pick up one of the TCC TC-750 to play with as well.

Still not sure which of the EAR 834P clones I’ll get, or if I’ll just pick up one of the PC boards, source better parts - then solder it up myself. Planning on using the best sounding of these for MM/MI carts I have. I’ll also be saving up for a quality MC phono stage.

 

[mjw21a]

My mates and I have sold off our Douk copies since moving on to the 42-2101A. Still, best stage I've ever run remains the Valab LCR-1 though it may not be to everyone's preferences.

I love mine though I believe Mr Pig found it somewhat less satisfying when he tried one. I suspect it may be because I prefer running a SUT with the stage on its lowest gain setting while Mr Pig prefers using the gain settings on the stage itself and that was less than perfect. Different systems and sonic preferences

 

[]eep]

Tubes MM + SUT is a classic combination that works well. Pure tube MC is really stretching it.
You do have to watch the impedance of the MC cart you want to transform I/V with a SUT. Because that is really what it is doing. It is a passive component that affects the sound very little. Impedance needs to be really low. Below 15 Ohm ideally with a 1:20 SUT. Ri x 10=<47k : ratio^2

 

[jobrewer1983]

I can’t add to the talk on the phono preamp, but I have used Douk audio for a small TI LM3886 chip amp. 68wpc and I have to say it’s far from Junk. Low buck but it’s well made and sounds pretty good. I use it as a test amp to hook up used gear prior to hooking anything up to the main amp.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Douk-Audio...hash=item41e05291e6:m:mAES3KtFZ2H6ekts3rPVxlA

This is the one ^^

 

[]eep]

I have several Douk amps. 50W Ti chip amp, one with Bluetooth and funky front led vu, several Tripath 2020/2021/2022, Yaqin and other phono-amp, Tube amps. All good or easy mods. Sometimes others are cheaper but he is really consistent in his picks, QC and rebranded articles. He's my go to guy. Next to some others like Along and Zero-zone (brand not shop).

I've just been listening to flac from phone>usb dac es9038 >80W chip amp>wavecor speakers prototypes. All Chinese. It sounded just awesome. I didn't modify anything except the speaker filters. And my phone is the most expensive part in the chain! Although... I got the speakers 2ndH, the drivers are very good but not cheap at all. 200 per woofer and 100 per tweeter.

 

[MisterDK]

I can’t add to the talk on the phono preamp, but I have used Douk audio for a small TI LM3886 chip amp. 68wpc and I have to say it’s far from Junk. Low buck but it’s well made and sounds pretty good. I use it as a test amp to hook up used gear prior to hooking anything up to the main amp.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Douk-Audio...hash=item41e05291e6:m:mAES3KtFZ2H6ekts3rPVxlA

This is the one ^^

Thanks; I don’t mind checking it out.
Got an OK power amp now though (old Adcom 555) and I’m saving up for big, burley Krell KSA-100 (room heater) that a neighbor of mine is selling. Sort of do want some tubey sound in there too though, which is why I’m thinking about the EAR 834P.
Presently using a Schiit Saga, tube buffered, passive preamp (linestage, I guess) with their Mani op-amp phono. Sounds decent to me - but it’s time for better.

 

[jobrewer1983]

Thanks; I don’t mind checking it out.
Got an OK power amp now though (old Adcom 555) and I’m saving up for big, burley Krell KSA-100 (room heater) that a neighbor of mine is selling. Sort of do want some tubey sound in there too though, which is why I’m thinking about the EAR 834P.
Presently using a Schiit Saga, tube buffered, passive preamp (linestage, I guess) with their Mani op-amp phono. Sounds decent to me - but it’s time for better.

Im not a fan of passive preamps, you can loose bottom end at lower levels of music.

But if your only using it for a phono stage volume control it should be fine

Have you considered a tube preamp, with phono stage?

 

[MisterDK]

Im not a fan of passive preamps, you can loose bottom end at lower levels of music.

But if your only using it for a phono stage volume control it should be fine

Have you considered a tube preamp, with phono stage?

I have and I may still go that route. Was looking at a couple Audio Research SP’s.

 

[DavidTT]

I've had great luck with a T11 for a couple of years now. Good enough that I tried a Lounge LCR and sold it as I preferred the T11. It surprised me that I preferred the T11 and have left well enough alone since then.

 

[Lavane]

I've bought several products from Douk.
The T-11 phono pre, a small headphone amp that can be used as a simple preamp as well with a tube front end and single ended SS output, a passive preamp with relay controlled inputs, and an all tube headphone amp with output transformers that I now use.
All work very well and at a decent price. The little hybrid headphone/preamp is handy at my bench as a preamp for testing. The all tube headphone amp is well built and sounds great with selectable impedance. It acually puts out 1.2wpc into 16 ohms. So it can be used as a flea watt amp as well. Some poopoo the switching power supplies being used more often now, but it does solve the problem of having too high voltages with the transformers used for the US market plus having to keep many heavy transformers on hand that add cost of the iron and shipping weight. All you need is one switching supply for every country. The headphone amp I bought can be plugged into anything from 100 volts to 230v.

 

[mjw21a]

Im not a fan of passive preamps, you can loose bottom end at lower levels of music.

But if your only using it for a phono stage volume control it should be fine

Have you considered a tube preamp, with phono stage?

The Schiit Saga however to my ears is roughly equal to the Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL 2 sonically. The MZ2 is more dynamic and holographic though lacks the wide and open sound stage that resistor based ladder seem to give. The tube buffer on the Saga also has the tiniest amount of gain. I preferred mine with an RCA Smoked Bottle in there.

The MicroZOTL 3 on the other hand is on a different level again to each of them. A true reference level component.

 

[jobrewer1983]

The Schiit Saga however to my ears is roughly equal to the Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL 2 sonically. The MZ2 is more dynamic and holographic though lacks the wide and open sound stage that resistor based ladder seem to give. The tube buffer on the Saga also has the tiniest amount of gain. I preferred mine with an RCA Smoked Bottle in there.

The MicroZOTL 3 on the other hand is on a different level again to each of them. A true reference level component.

I don’t really run external phono stages, I have a few low end ones but I’m limited on space. I barely have the room to run my power supply to the table... I’ve considered a tube buffer but I really don’t have the room.

Currently I’m running one of my integrated amps, it’s a got a fantastic phono stage has all the needed settings MC or MM I also use an Emotiva stack with a nice phono stage on the preamp.

I’d personally find a used B&K or Emotiva preamp or something like that, maybe one without a phono stage and run a tube buffer to the AUx.

 

[]eep]

Huge number of Chinese students in Australian universities also.

The Douk copy is pretty fantastic, however to get the best from it you need to upgrade the caps and run some rather valuable NOS caps. It actually betters the original EAR834P in the bass department and doesn't suffer the low level hum issues of the Little Bear units.

Myself and a few of my mates have found we can get an even better result modifying the cheap Realistic 42-2101A phono stage. The output caps have the biggest influence on sound. Replace with Miflex KPCU-1 for incredible results. Only issue is you need to build a bigger metal case to fit those massive caps in.

Isn't that a given? The caps in it are pretty basic. I bought a stash of Gudeman PiO's 0.1uF especially for this purpose, and for any 6p1 tube amps I use for top speakers (~>80Hz). And they are pretty small. 1uF aren't to big either. If you put Jupiter's beeswax in there or Duelund, yes you need more space. But I'm not sure if that's money well spent. But its good to hear this clone is OK.

And thanks for the info on the bears. I only had a vague recollection of the problems. Now I have to look up the Realistic's...

If you look me up you'll see the Jolida jd9 on which I'm sort of expert, and the Yaqin MS23. I also use an Audiowind A310 that I modified that looks pretty basic but is actually very good if you get rid of totally unnecessary signal caps. An MM or MC cartridge can't produce DC...

Uhhh. Just looked up the Realistic. How is that anywhere comparable? And it starts with (wait for it..) a resistor and a cap! And it looks like... old rubbish. I once had a MF X-LP, the round can that was similar but better. Didn't like it. I bought the beautiful looking €30 Box1 from Fx-audio. Sounds ballsy if just a bit veiled (yes, smd input caps to blame).

If you want something that is cheap, good, small, easily modified and actually looks great might I suggest the HA-1a phono?

 

[mjw21a]

You'll be surprised. The Realistic is a very simple, cheap single ended circuit. Compares favorably to the 834P circuit, as I've said though my Valab LCR-1 is quite a bit better to my ears. And yeah, no caps in the signal path with it either.

 

[]eep]

I don’t really run external phono stages, I have a few low end ones but I’m limited on space. I barely have the room to run my power supply to the table... I’ve considered a tube buffer but I really don’t have the room.

Currently I’m running one of my integrated amps, it’s a got a fantastic phono stage has all the needed settings MC or MM I also use an Emotiva stack with a nice phono stage on the preamp.

I’d personally find a used B&K or Emotiva preamp or something like that, maybe one without a phono stage and run a tube buffer to the AUx.

Tubes aren't some sort of worchestershire sauce. Just tieing a tube buffer behind a solid state doesn't improve a thing or give you 'tube flavor'. You never get 'the best of both worlds', au contraire... You always get the worst of both. Information lost will never ever 'magically' reappear.

The EAR834 is that good because it uses small signal tubes where they are best. That's the whole art of engineering: use as few components as you can and make the best possible compromises.

 

[mjw21a]

Currently my preference is tubes in the preamp before a power amp.... Otherwise a tube integrated amp. That's pretty much it though.

SS phono stages and other sources let through detail which is hidden with tubes. I tend to believe that tubes work best when the signal being amplified is already at line level.

The only exception to this is my Muji Studio DAC II which after changing the OPAMPS is the best sounding DAC I've ever run. It's single handedly got me from spinning 90% vinyl to 95% digital content. It's not just that it matches vinyl, it betters it. Just spectacular

 

[jobrewer1983]

Tubes aren't some sort of worchestershire sauce. Just tieing a tube buffer behind a solid state doesn't improve a thing or give you 'tube flavor'. You never get 'the best of both worlds', au contraire... You always get the worst of both. Information lost will never ever 'magically' reappear.

The EAR834 is that good because it uses small signal tubes where they are best. That's the whole art of engineering: use as few components as you can and make the best possible compromises.

Oh I know I’m not going to get “true tube” sound with just a buffer, but it’s been known to improve some sound on some systems... or give good sound to an Aux Input. Like I said, I don’t run one, Ive only got room for the amp and table

 

[]eep]

A dac with opamps... I've done a lot of dacs and I'm running 1 too out of convenience. But ladder dacs are better. Off-topic but just FYI.

Tubes are great with low level signals, but amplifying MC is stretching it to far. Fortunately SUT and tubes match well (given low impedance MC cart).

And even though that's all good, I use only opamps in my Jolida. The tubes are just a buffer. Opamps can be really great given the right power, amplification factor and signal. I made a loop from the 'low' output to be able to use the tubes after the opamps and ABX them. So use the tubes as intended or leave them out. Well, the buffer just ads HD and some minor crackle and hiss. Doesn't improve stage or dynamics or w/e. Just from MC>SUT>2 opamps sounds much better than MC>3 opamps. No matter what, the tubes don't improve a thing. I bought it for the tubes, but after all mods I've got a better phono-amp overall. Without tubes.

That's why I still want an 834 to see if it can match the great phono input of my old Audio Innovations 500. I know tubes can sound great.

 

[mjw21a]

Nonetheless the good old Philips TDA1541 is extremely natural, with the best treble and bass I've heard. Unusually with the tube buffer bypassed the unit sound ms quite flat. Far less insightful and dynamic, so I leave it turned on.

This stage uses 2x OPAMPS for each channel so 4 all up. I changed them all for Burson discrete OPAMPS. Massive improvement. Haven't even bothered upgrading caps.

 

[]eep]

I have heard the 1541 with tubes in my set. I've compared a lot of dacs in my set because I invited ppl from a Chinese audio forum in my country to come and do compare sessions. TDA1541+tubes is good but not better than my 4XTDA1543 dacs. Or 8x1543. Just all round better. You won't know because it's my design.
No offense but with 1541+opamps you'll be listening to opamps.

That said, tubes being suited best for line level and up is not true. The EAR834 and others wouldn't be that renowned otherwise. It doesn't have to do with level but with V or A. MC has high A, low V. A SUT transforms it and the tubes amplify V. And while power tubes sound good, they don't really shine at providing high power or control. Ok, maybe some exotic tubes like 845 and up shine enough to read a book by but it'll cost you when the power bill comes.

Tubes aren't the be all, end all of low level amplification but they will give you that certain magic that other transistors will not do very easily (trying to express myself carefully).