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Dream Theater: Systematic Chaos

needforspeed

ONE OF THESE DAYS
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Artist: Dream Theater
Title: Systematic Chaos
Label: Roadrunner Records
Genre: Rock (Prog)
Released: 2007

The buzz on this disc has been growing the last few months on other sites,
Mainly due to the fact, There isn't much new stuff for progressive rock fans
to look forward to most of the time. As a long time DT fan, I grabbed this
as soon as it was released, Today. If your a DT and or Prog rock fan, Chaos
doesn't disappoint. Front man James Labrie is in fine form, and the never
gets his due respect, John Petrucci is his usual monster riffing self. This guy
should be mentioned along side of Vai/Gilmore/Satch. With Neal Peart
impersonator, Mike Portney supplying the back beat, you have a band who
really know there craft, The playing on this disc is astounding. There best
since, Falling into Infinity.
 
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Sounds good! :thmbsp:

My gf loves DT, it's probably her second favorite band after Rush (mine is Queen). I, however, much to her annoyance, have yet to really get into DT. I've even went with her to one of their shows, (the recent one in St. Louis where some idiot in the upper balcony tried to catch Portnoy's thrown drumstick at the end of the show and fell over the railing and landed on somone below him :stupid: thus ending Portnoy's habit of throwing out his drumsticks to the crowd :no: : sorry folks, I swear it wasn't me! :sigh: :D ) but I just think their music tends to wander too much. I like more linear and traditional rock songs, and while some prog solos and jams are great (hey, I love Rush and Queen remember?!) I think DT tend to go too far on many of their songs and end up playing in circles too much with no ultimate direction, or point.

But like I said, I have yet to seriously sit down and concentrate on listening to all of their albums over and over to really be able to judge. Hearing all of them kind of in the background when my gf plays them doesn't count.
 
Damn, I forgot that came out today! Looks like I'll be stopping by a BB or something to pick one up since I'm on the road working the next few days! I'm a huge Dream Theater fan....
 
There is hope after all...

It takes a lot of dedicated listening to get into a new group. Dream Theatre, and Porcupine Tree seem to have that promise.

I have copies of some Porcupine Tree, and Dream Theatre CD's that I need to sit down and listen to. But it's got to be at the right time. And I must be in a 'receptive' mood.

I didn't know John Patituchi was in DT! He has played with some awesome jazz groups. This makes me more 'receptive'.

Trouble is when you burn a CD you don't get all the info.

I'm glad there are people like you out there!

Rick in Lutz, Fl.
 
Permanent Waves said:
...I think DT tend to go too far on many of their songs and end up playing in circles too much with no ultimate direction, or point...
I disagree, I think they're pretty tight, compositionally. Have you heard "A Change of Seasons"?
 
Like I said, I need to really listen more closely to DT's albums, I've heard all of them at least once (some many times) but only a few have I really concentrated on, most were just kind of background music when I heard them. Maybe if I could ever stop playing the new Rush album (and all their albums for that matter, got to get ready for the tour! :banana:) I will sit down to them all and listen to each a few times at least! :D My gf has all of DT's albums, including this one she just got today, so that should be no problem to do. Then I'll get back to you guys with a more informed opinion. :thmbsp:

But as of now, I think they are a better cover and jam band than a original song writing or compositional band. I think they have talent in this way, and when I saw them live they were great, but listening to them is kind of just like listening to a band jam in circles with no apparent direction (besides a few of their more concise songs). It's good, they can play, but in the end, why am I listening to it? :scratch2: But maybe this is all because I have yet to really learn their songs, or I don't particulary like that kind of music (I'm not too big on classical either).

Anyway, I do take issue with the band members themselves. For it is no secret that their drummer is totally full of himself; he's said that in high school everyone went around calling him the "next Neil Peart" and he thought to himself "yea, that's what I'll be". :no: Even if he was that good or even better (he isn't, not by far, at least from what I've heard and comparative discussions I've read like this one: http://www.rushmessageboard.com/cpmb/index.php?showtopic=11285, and there's much better drummers than him that are comparable or better than Peart) that's highly egotistical.

Also, the whole band has this thing about Rush not making anything worthwhile listening to since Signals in '82, they've said they won't listen to any of their output after that (like it's not worthy of their time). :no: It's fine if they privately think that way, that's their opinion, and I know some (all?) are big fans of Rush (although I don't understand how you can love a band if you don't like at least most of their output, not just their "golden era": that's a very casual or fair weather fan, the kind that turns on the radio and hears a hit and listens to it but wouldn't dare sit down and listen to an album from the same band that's unpopular or unknown to the general rock fan), but to be in a professional band and say publically of another band that they haven't put out anything for 25 years worth listening to is really, really, arrogant and a deliberate put down of that band. It's exactly like saying that you think your band has never put out anything of dubious quality or at least all of it is better than the band you judge to be unlistenable to after a certain album, and so you have the right to look down on other bands that you think have put out flawed albums, and in Rush's case, over a dozen albums not worth listening too. What the hell? :nono:

And lest you think I find this attitude of DT's repugnant because of what they have said about my favorite band, that's entirely not the case (for one, I could care less about what anyone thinks about the music I like or Rush, I'd still love Rush even if all 3 members pubically stated that they themselves personally hate everything they have ever done. Who cares?). For instance, I'm no Yes fan at all, but I think DT has said the same things toward them. And here's a direct quote from Portnoy from an interview about two bands that I like, but not incredibly so:

"What hard rock/heavy metal band should give it up and call it a day?"

"Metallica and Queensryche...Both bands made some of my favorite records of the 80's and some of the biggest piles of **** in the 90's.."

(He goes on to say later in the interview that Neil Peart should "give it a rest" and puts down about 5 other drummers as well, most of which are better than him. And just check out #11 on that interview, yes, I'm sure he made a tribute album with a lot of washed up bands not for any money. Oh really? Well he's a millionare, I'd believe him if he refused any royalties from that album or donated all of them to some music institution dedicated to bringing music to impoverished kids. Also, Rush is very popular outside of the US and Canda, talk about being jealous and a blatant lie. What does popularity have to do with talent anyway? And Neil was popular enough for Portnoy to interview for a drum magazine, or did he sell his integrity for the money he got from doing the interview with someone he doesn't respect, personally or musically, nor his band, at least not anymore? Actually, just reading the whole interview this guy sounds like an ungrateful pretentious asswipe one second and then a seemingly nice guy and remembering his place in the next. He sounds like a schizo. This guy is so very precious, what a douche. He talks like just another spoiled immature kid/rockstar/wannabe putting down his superiors. That's not class, and doesn't come off as one serious about musical artistry.)

http://www.metalsludge.tv/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=202&Itemid=52

So DT (or at least Portnoy) seem to like to deny the talent of the very bands that have inspired them and that they stole half of what they know from (and yea, he is right about 90's Metallica, but 80's Metallica kills all DT, and Queensryche's last few releases were at least as good as any DT I've heard), all the while playing covers of their music and making $$$ from doing so. That's entirely hypocritical. (No wonder he's a recovering alcoholic, he had to use something to drown all of that guilt until he lost all humility and became a megalomanic self professed incredible drummer and drummer/music critic). Hell, I wouldn't care if they/he said the same things about Bananarama and they were totally correct, it's just sheer arrogance to put down another band publically if you youself are in a band. You might as well say: "They're good, but we're better." Or: "They suck, and we're way better." Not cool.

Anyway, didn't mean to steal the thread, and this is all jmho anyway and perhaps I'm entirely wrong so don't take offense anyone! :smoke:
 
Permanent Waves said:
Sounds good! :thmbsp:

My gf loves DT, it's probably her second favorite band after Rush (mine is Queen). I, however, much to her annoyance, have yet to really get into DT. I've even went with her to one of their shows, (the recent one in St. Louis where some idiot in the upper balcony tried to catch Portnoy's thrown drumstick at the end of the show and fell over the railing and landed on somone below him :stupid: thus ending Portnoy's habit of throwing out his drumsticks to the crowd :no: : sorry folks, I swear it wasn't me! :sigh: :D ) but I just think their music tends to wander too much. I like more linear and traditional rock songs, and while some prog solos and jams are great (hey, I love Rush and Queen remember?!) I think DT tend to go too far on many of their songs and end up playing in circles too much with no ultimate direction, or point.

But like I said, I have yet to seriously sit down and concentrate on listening to all of their albums over and over to really be able to judge. Hearing all of them kind of in the background when my gf plays them doesn't count.

I agree, to some extent, When a song is more than say 7-8 minutes long,
it can get kind of fatiguing, unless, like me, your waiting for the next
change in step, or tone, much like the grestest prog band ever (P Floyd)
DT, Always seems to have surprises in there marathon tracks. BTW,
great concert story . Was wondering why he quit that.
 
Tapehead47 said:
I didn't know John Patituchi was in DT! He has played with some awesome jazz groups.

It's John Petrucci actually. Different person altogether. I hope that doesn't disuade you.

NeedForSpeed,

My copy shipped last Monday. It should arrive tomorrow or Friday. I ordered the deluxe edition with the DVD. Very much looking forward to this release as I do all Dream Theater released including their Official Bootleg Series stuff.

Cheers
 
Tapehead47 said:
It takes a lot of dedicated listening to get into a new group. Dream Theatre, and Porcupine Tree seem to have that promise.

I have copies of some Porcupine Tree, and Dream Theatre CD's that I need to sit down and listen to. But it's got to be at the right time. And I must be in a 'receptive' mood.

I didn't know John Patituchi was in DT! He has played with some awesome jazz groups. This makes me more 'receptive'.

Trouble is when you burn a CD you don't get all the info.

I'm glad there are people like you out there!

Rick in Lutz, Fl.

Thanks for the kind words, I also need to be "In the mood" for this style,
usually after a couple hours of rocking at high volume, I'll turn things
down and put on Pink Floyd or Yes, and of course Dream Theater.
John Petrucci, is the co-founding member, with Mike Portnoy, and yes
is a great jazz guitarist. The guys name is never on any great this or that
lists, And I think it's probably due to his style. Even David Gilmore did'nt get
his respect untill leaving PF. This disc is a good introduction to DT, if your
not familiar with them, or check out there debut, Images And Words.
 
Drybasement said:
It's John Petrucci actually. Different person altogether. I hope that doesn't disuade.

NeedForSpeed,

My copy shipped last Monday. It should arrive tomorrow or Friday. I ordered the deluxe edition with the DVD. Very much looking forward to this release as I do all Dream Theater released including their Official Bootleg Series stuff.

Cheers

I'm waiting on the word on the 5.1 sound, and video quality, Maybe you can
give us the :thmbsp: or :thumbsdn: When you get it.
 
Permanent Waves said:
Like I said, I need to really listen more closely to DT's albums, I've heard all of them at least once (some many times) but only a few have I really concentrated on, most were just kind of background music when I heard them. Maybe if I could ever stop playing the new Rush album (and all their albums for that matter, got to get ready for the tour! :banana:) I will sit down to them all and listen to each a few times at least! :D My gf has all of DT's albums, including this one she just got today, so that should be no problem to do. Then I'll get back to you guys with a more informed opinion. :thmbsp:

But as of now, I think they are a better cover and jam band than a original song writing or compositional band. I think they have talent in this way, and when I saw them live they were great, but listening to them is kind of just like listening to a band jam in circles with no apparent direction (besides a few of their more concise songs). It's good, they can play, but in the end, why am I listening to it? :scratch2: But maybe this is all because I have yet to really learn their songs, or I don't particulary like that kind of music (I'm not too big on classical either).

Anyway, I do take issue with the band members themselves. For it is no secret that their drummer is totally full of himself; he's said that in high school everyone went around calling him the "next Neil Peart" and he thought to himself "yea, that's what I'll be". :no: Even if he was that good or even better (he isn't, not by far, at least from what I've heard and comparative discussions I've read like this one: http://www.rushmessageboard.com/cpmb/index.php?showtopic=11285, and there's much better drummers than him that are comparable or better than Peart) that's highly egotistical.

Also, the whole band has this thing about Rush not making anything worthwhile listening to since Signals in '82, they've said they won't listen to any of their output after that (like it's not worthy of their time). :no: It's fine if they privately think that way, that's their opinion, and I know some (all?) are big fans of Rush (although I don't understand how you can love a band if you don't like at least most of their output, not just their "golden era": that's a very casual or fair weather fan, the kind that turns on the radio and hears a hit and listens to it but wouldn't dare sit down and listen to an album from the same band that's unpopular or unknown to the general rock fan), but to be in a professional band and say publically of another band that they haven't put out anything for 25 years worth listening to is really, really, arrogant and a deliberate put down of that band. It's exactly like saying that you think your band has never put out anything of dubious quality or at least all of it is better than the band you judge to be unlistenable to after a certain album, and so you have the right to look down on other bands that you think have put out flawed albums, and in Rush's case, over a dozen albums not worth listening too. What the hell? :nono:

And lest you think I find this attitude of DT's repugnant because of what they have said about my favorite band, that's entirely not the case. For instance, I'm no Yes fan at all, but I think DT has said the same things toward them. And here's a direct quote from Portnoy from an interview about two bands that I like, but not incredibly so:

"What hard rock/heavy metal band should give it up and call it a day?"

"Metallica and Queensryche...Both bands made some of my favorite records of the 80's and some of the biggest piles of **** in the 90's.."

(He goes on to say later in the interview that Neil Peart should "give it a rest" and puts down about 5 other drummers as well, most of which are better than him. And just check out #11 on that interview, yes, I'm sure he made a tribute album with a lot of washed up bands not for any money. Oh really? Well he's a millionare, I'd believe him if he refused any royalties from that album or donated all of them to some music institution dedicated to bringing music to impoverished kids. Also, Rush is very popular outside of the US and Canda, talk about being sore. What does popularity have to do with talent anyway? And Neil was popular enough for Portnoy to interview for a drum magazine, or did he sell his integrity for the money he got from doing the interview with someone he doesn't respect, at least not anymore? Actually, just reading the whole interview this guy sounds like an ungrateful pretentious asswipe one second and then a seemingly nice guy and remembering his place in the next. He sounds like a schizo. This guy is so very precious, what a douche.)

http://www.metalsludge.tv/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=202&Itemid=52

So DT (or at least Portnoy) seem to like to deny the talent of the very bands that have inspired them and that they stole half of what they know from (and yea, he is right about 90's Metallica, but 80's Metallica kills all DT, and Queensryche's last few releases were at least as good as any DT I've heard), all the while playing covers of their music and making $$$ from doing so. That's really messed up. (No wonder he's a recovering alcoholic, he had to use something to drown all of that guilt until he lost all humility and became a megalomanic self professed incredible drummer and drummer/music critic). Hell, I wouldn't care if they said the same things about Bananarama and they were totally correct, it's just sheer arrogance to put down another band publically if you youself are in a band. You might as well say: "They're good, but we're better." Or: "They suck, and we're way better." Not cool.

Anyway, didn't mean to steal the thread, and this is all jmho anyway and perhaps I'm entirely wrong so don't take offense anyone! :smoke:

I've never read any of this stuff, If that was said, Not cool, my personnel
comparison was just that, Theres only 1 Neal Peart, and Rush has been
chugging along since what, 77-78. Portnoy uses some of his style IMO.
Playing "Off Beat" or at a different count, is a NP trademark, And its done
on alot of DT tracks.
 
Well, sorry about all that long post, I just get really upset when musican's egos get in the way of their music.

For instance, in that interview Portnoy says that Neil said the bands on a recent Rush tribute album were "bar bands". I'm not entirely sure if he actually did say this, or if he really meant it, but if he did, shame on him. (I have no allegiance to any particular musican just because I love their music, if someone acts like an ass, they he or she is being an ass!). Although I do think he's right and has a reason to be angry at washed up hacks making $$$ off of his band's music, he shouldn't have said that publically.

However, that seems so out of character for Neil that I can't be sure he really said it or meant it. All the members of Rush have always come off as classy and humble, and above personal insults and arguments with other bands. At least that's what I've gotten from the dozens of interviews of Rush I've read and heard.

Anyway, I don't have a problem with longer songs, but just that the longer DT songs I've heard don't seem so "coherent" as other songs of the same length by other bands. For instance, some of my favorite Rush songs are Zanadu, La Villa Stranigato, Jacob's Ladder, The Camera Eye, Natural Science, Hemispheres, and 2112. Those are all at least 7 minute long songs, but they all seem to be moving in some direction and not wandering off on tangents. Metallic and even Pink Floyd also have some great instrumentals I find are of the same type.

Like I said, this could all be just a personal preferrence I have, I like songs and instrumentals that are long and jam, but I also like linearity.

And Rush has been around since '68 when Alex and Ged first started playing together, Neil came in at '75. And you're right, Portnoy puts down those he's stole from instead of just acknowledging his debt. Totally classless.
 
I just enjoy the music. I could care less about what one band thinks about the other. It's reminiscent of the late 80's and 90's crap with Guns & Roses (which I just hate), Motley Crue, and other bands like that. It's just like the celebrity world of one bashing another. I don't read the tabloids...I don't care. I just enjoy the music. :music:

As far as Rush goes, they are a great band but I haven't bought anything after Moving Pictures I think. Something about Geddy Lee's voice just gets on my nerves...like Axl Rose's but I can't listen to ANY GNR (Slash is ok, though). But they ARE a great band (Rush I mean) no matter what. Very talented. I grew up jamming on 2112, Moving Pictures, etc.

But I do love me some Dream Theater when the crankin' time is upon me!
 
Permanent Waves said:
Well, sorry about all that long post, I just get really upset when musican's egos get in the way of their music.

For instance, in that interview Portnoy says that Neil said the bands on a recent Rush tribute album were "bar bands". I'm not entirely sure if he actually did say this, or if he really meant it, but if he did, shame on him. (I have no allegiance to any particular musican just because I love their music, if someone acts like an ass, they he or she is being an ass!). Although I do think he's right and has a reason to be angry at washed up hacks making $$$ off of his band's music, he shouldn't have said that publically.

However, that seems so out of character for Neil that I can't be sure he really said it or meant it. All the members of Rush have always come off as classy and humble, and above personal insults and arguments with other bands. At least that's what I've gotten from the dozens of interviews of Rush I've read and heard.

Anyway, I don't have a problem with longer songs, but just that the longer DT songs I've heard don't seem so "coherent" as other songs of the same length by other bands. For instance, some of my favorite Rush songs are Zanadu, La Villa Stranigato, Jacob's Ladder, The Camera Eye, Natural Science, Hemispheres, and 2112. Those are all at least 7 minute long songs, but they all seem to be moving in some direction and not wandering off on tangents. Metallic and even Pink Floyd also have some great instrumentals I find are of the same type.

Like I said, this could all be just a personal preferrence I have, I like songs and instrumentals that are long and jam, but I also like linearity.

And Rush has been around since '68 when Alex and Ged first started playing together, Neil came in at '75. And you're right, Portnoy puts down those he's stole from instead of just acknowledging his debt. Totally classless.

Guess I'm not totally up to speed on my Rush history, I got into them with
"Caress Of Steel", Which still gets alot of play around here. I've heard of
other bands trashing one another, Stones/Aerosmith, Aerosmith/Van Halen,
But it has never swayed me buying good music, It's an ego trip, Lame, true,
But whatta gonna do. Hope you give this disc a try, It's just good tunes,
Nothing more.
 
Got the name wrong, but from what I've heard of DT, it doesn't matter. Tomorrow night is 'music nite' with my brother, John. DT will be played if I can find that disc somewhere.

Rick
 
Tapehead47 said:
Got the name wrong, but from what I've heard of DT, it doesn't matter. Tomorrow night is 'music nite' with my brother, John. DT will be played if I can find that disc somewhere.

Rick

Your right, Does'nt matter, Enjoy "Music Night".
 
Thanks, Need....

It's not often Johnny and me can get together to listen to music. When we can it's a very special time for us both.

I bought a pair of 1989 Klipsch Fortes about a month ago and this is my first chance to audition them with Johnny. Man, am I looking forward to bragging rights!

Rick
 
Tapehead47 said:
It's not often Johnny and me can get together to listen to music. When we can it's a very special time for us both.

I bought a pair of 1989 Klipsch Fortes about a month ago and this is my first chance to audition them with Johnny. Man, am I looking forward to bragging rights!

Rick

Nice, Enjoy!
 
I will give the new cd a listen, my gf seems to like it, and I will give all the older ones a close listen! :thmbsp:

I was just venting at the pompus attitude of some rock stars, and Portnoy is at the top of the list. It really interferes with my enjoyment of their music. It's hard for me to really like a band if I think it's members are asses, it's just a peeve I have. I have to respect the band as people or else I can't really truly love them. I can causally enjoy them, but not ever really get into them, especially if their lyrics have social/political points and concerns that the band themselves seem to care nothing about (before you ask, Rush has given a lot to charities over the years, and best of all have given quietly: they even won the Order of Canada for their charity work). That's hypocritical. I have the same thing with movies and actors: I used to really like The Last Samurai (yes, I know it glorified the Samurai's and was historically inaccurate, but still) with Tom Cruise before he went insane and started acting like a total dick. I can't watch that movie now because in it he portrays someone of moral fiber, and in real life he's not. Same thing with Russell Crowe and Mel Gibson. Their behavior totally undermines any portrayal of them as impassioned would be hero's in movies. I usually try to stay away from news and info. about celebs and rock band members because of this reason, but I can't help absorbing some from popular culture and when it is negative it affects my enjoyment of said celeb's and musician's works.

Btw, Portnoy maligned Neil by taking that "bar band" quote entirely out of context about a Rush tribute album. What he said was that the record label was just trying to make money off of fans because they almost exclusively produced tribute albums and nothing else and he jokingly referred to the players on these tribute albums to ANY band as "bar bands". Not quite as mean spirited as Portnoy would have us believe, and he wasn't singling out Portnoy much less that particular tribute album.

This is all explained further here if anyone cares to read:

http://www.rushmessageboard.com/cpmb/index.php?showtopic=11285&st=200&gopid=420248&#entry420248

I'll shut up now. :D
 
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