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Drivers for 811b's ?

Personally I feel there is little risk in buying the BMS 4552ND's as the price we're getting is below what you can sell a used pair for on eBay so I feel secure with this gamble. Like Tom, I love my 902's, mine are the 1980 Altecs, I listen to them daily, I'll be able to do a side by side comparison once I get the BMS drivers. Just my $.02, Dave. :D
 
bowtie427ss said:
My advice, depending on what kind of money you want to throw at the endeavor is to watch for 175 series Emilar (EA's are alnico body extremely similar to Altec 802, and the EC's are ceramic/ferrite) and Renkus 1800/1801 drivers. The emilar and renkus are both characteristically similar to the altec 802 and a significant improvement over the 806 in both sonics and sensitivity. Entry fee with careful shopping is unbeatable. I listen to either Renkus or Emilars almost daily as well as my 802G's.

I have nothing against the BMS drivers, haven't heard em, and the reports are certainly all favorable................ but for the entry fee, i'm more inclined to pony up just a few dollars more and have new 902's from GPA.

Just my .02 y'all understand...........
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My gut feeling is to stay with Altec, also. I'll be calling GPA tomorrow and asking for the prices. If they are considerably more than the BMS and all reports are going in favor of the BMS, then the group buy sounds like a winner.
I just haven't heard any of the other drivers mentioned like Emilars, Seleniums, and others so have nothing to base a buying decision. For the money, the Seleniums are probably the low-budget champ, at present.
I would like to avoid the upgrade train as I've been on that trip and it ends up costing more than a first-class ticket in the end.

From Zilch's measurements and the threads that have been posted, it seems the BMS offer a flatter, more extended response. That's not always what I like to hear, unfortunately. My son-in-law, the sound engineer has a pair of Dynaco monitors that are the flatest and most critical sound I've come across. Details like breath intake in vocals, string vibration, etc. are all present. For mixing cuts of recordings, I'm sure they are unmatched. I found that they lack a certain dynamic, though, and become somewhat fatiguing to my ears. Probably unfair to compare them to a horn but the point is they are lacking.
Are any of the suggested drivers you guys have that are non-Altec give that kind of dynamic presentation that I remember from my VOTT days? I know that's a hard one to answer but maybe certain drivers fall short or are more dynamic than others that have been mentioned.
 
macaltec said:
I have used the Eminence PSD2002's that Paul C posted about. While the BMS drivers measure better you can't even begin to get them for the cost of the Eminence. I like the sound of them just fine. An audible improvement in response from the 808-8a w/Radian 1228 phragms. The Seleniums that have been getting some publicity lately look attractive for the money as well. At their price I can afford to just get em and try em.
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The Selenium D210Ti will just walk all over the Eminence PSD2002. I've use both of them extensively. The Eminence has an audible resonance in the top octave somewhere, and drops like a brick over about 16KHZ.

OTOH, the Selenium, on the right horn, is flat to just about 20KHz, maybe higher. And it seems to take less LF compensation ("tilt") than the Eminence. No audible resonance, on any horn I've used it on.

Not to mention, it's CHEAPER, both in the driver itself AND for replacement elements (and any time you're experimenting, having cheap replacement diaphragms is a DEFINITE PLUS :D )...

The only place I've had problems with the D210Ti is trying to use the screw-on version on the back of an Eminence Beta 10 CX. Think there's some sort of throat mis-match there... BIG dip at around 6KHz. I'm going to try the bolt-on version with a bolt-on/screw-on adapter, and see if I can shake up things a bit...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
westend said:
Are any of the suggested drivers you guys have that are non-Altec give that kind of dynamic presentation that I remember from my VOTT days? I know that's a hard one to answer but maybe certain drivers fall short or are more dynamic than others that have been mentioned.
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Anyone who heard my Seeburg DDS1 custom rebuilds can vouch for what I'm about to say... the Selenium D210Ti (which I used on a horn close to the shape and dimensions of an Altec 811) definitely CAN do the dynamics. I don't think I've heard many speakers of ANY type that could "out-dynamic" that system. That was with a ~1100 Hz crossover point, from a JBL stamped-frame 15 (with custom recone kit), second order, with a low-Q highpass (to "contour down" the lower end of the horn output) and a slight shelf filter on the top octave (to complete the "horn EQ" contour)...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
GordonW said:
The Selenium D210Ti will just walk all over the Eminence PSD2002. I've use both of them extensively. The Eminence has an audible resonance in the top octave somewhere, and drops like a brick over about 16KHZ.
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attachment.php


We've had the discussion previously here; how can Eminence claim response to 20 kHz in light of their own published curves for PSD2002? :dunno:

http://www.eminence.com/pdf/psd2002.pdf

I've measured the Seleniums, but no longer have the curves or the drivers. They were the thread-on version. If somebody is willing to send me a bolt-on pair for testing, I'll run them on 811B and 511A horns, and we can end speculation regarding those, as well.... :yes:

westend said:
Are any of the suggested drivers you guys have that are non-Altec give that kind of dynamic presentation that I remember from my VOTT days? I know that's a hard one to answer but maybe certain drivers fall short or are more dynamic than others that have been mentioned.
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Dynamics are characteristic of compression drivers, generally. I would argue that a mylar diaphragm (BMS) has the potential to be more dynamic than an aluminum one (Altec et al,) but don't ask me to quantify it.... :p:
 
Zilch said:
I've measured the Seleniums, but no longer have the curves or the drivers. They were the thread-on version. If somebody is willing to send me a bolt-on pair for testing, I'll run them on 811B and 511A horns, and we can end speculation regarding those, as well.... :yes:
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Zilch, I'll just bet you knew I had a pair of Selenium D210Ti-OMF's, didn't you?

I can send them to you in three or four days, if that is timely enough. I would be interested to see some good plots of them and comparisons to the BMS and Altec stuff as well.

Thanks,
 
I now have 4 of the Selenium's, I bought the 1st pair for $50 total from PE on the deal of the day, the second pair was from the current sale, $62 for the pair. These were the best $25 and $31 each I ever spent for drivers, other than the mounting quirk of not knowing which way the terminals will orient when bolted to a horn, they're great. Dave.

PE 264-236

264-236m.jpg
 
dgwojo said:
I now have 4 of the Selenium's, I bought the 1st pair for $50 total from PE on the deal of the day, the second pair was from the current sale, $62 for the pair. These were the best $25 and $31 each I ever spent for drivers, other than the mounting quirk of not knowing which way the terminals will orient when bolted to a horn, they're great. Dave.

PE 264-236

264-236m.jpg
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I'm sure they still don't compare to Altec 902's though?
 
I was looking at the specs last night:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/264-236.pdf

Nice curves on HL 14-25 horn.

What's that?

http://www.seleniumloudspeakers.com/site2004/catalogo/pdf/pro_corneta_hl14-25.pdf

A 45° exponential horn that's already beaming significantly at 8 kHz.

Exponentials do the requisite compensation mechanically by narrowing the dispersion with increasing frequency.

We'll see how they perform on 811s, but it's not going to be like that without compensation filtering.

[AK knows how to do that, tho.... :thmbsp: ]
 
eh.. I think I'll stick with my Altec horns.. they look so much nicer.. and I'm still gonna bet are a lot nicer on the ears...
 
Indeed, Simi. Those exponential horns are best reserved for use in wallpaper stripping.... :thmbsp:
 
Eric was over at my house the other night, and all he could keep saying was "Those Highs!" with a really great look of astonishment :D

I'm gonna have to be long gone before my Altecs ever leave my home just because of that same feeling he had, every time I listen to them :tresbon:
 
The seleniums recommend a 2K crossover. Not much point in putting them on an 811. The much smaller horn on a 604 is usually crossed at about 1500. Is this a power handling related point?
 
kyle said:
The seleniums recommend a 2K crossover. Not much point in putting them on an 811. The much smaller horn on a 604 is usually crossed at about 1500. Is this a power handling related point?
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Resonance, typically, which is @ 2kHz for that driver on a plane wave tube (PWT). Best practice is to stay one octave above there, but common practice is to ignore that unless it sounds nasty.

Actual resonance may vary with horn loading, but they're also calling for a 12 dB/octave highpass slope @ 2kHz, clearly implying there's trouble abrew below the minimum recommended crossover frequency. The only way to know is to measure on the horn.

[OH, and listen, too.... ;) ]
 
dgwojo said:
If I have time this week I'll compare them to my 902's, Dave. :music:
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Very tough to compare the 902 and the Selenium on my 511B horns, the 902 sounds slightly more efficient, like the old days, louder is better to my ear but the 902's lack the highs I hear in the Seleniums, the 902's seems stronger in the midrange but that might be due to the efficiency mismatch. The highs are more defined for sure on the Selenium, I'm using 18db high pass, 12db low pass 800hz XO's from Eminence. Personally the Selenium sounds better on my 811B's in my garage speakers than the 511B's. I think if you're not running these side by side against the 902's, you'll be very happy with them for the budget price, the kids were in bed so it was tough for me to do additional listening. Just my $.02, Dave.
 
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