Dual 1219 makes noise when off?

[jleon92f]

Hi Analog Fans,

I was at my desk last night, and I started hearing noises from my shelf area. Did not take notice to what was making noise at that time, it went away. Right now as I sat here at mey desk it happened again, it is my Dual 1219 making wierd noises when it is OFF? I unplugged it and the noises stopped?

Any Dual owners run into this? I have had Dual since they came out and this is the first time I have ever heard this. Sounds like the motor was running?

Thread for pictures of my Dual. http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120934&highlight=dual+1219

John

 

[NoTransistors]

Unless the motor is in like-new condition, it may make some noise while running without a load.
Your turntable retracted the idler wheel [good], but did not shut the motor off [bad]. Hard to easily explain, unless you have an exploded view with part #'s, of the chassis, but suffice it to say that there is a pivoted lever that is probably sticking a bit on its pivot.
About the noise- either you have really great hearing, or the motor bearings are past-due for some oil.

Seth
Forever Analog and Covered In Parrot Poop

 

[Aage]

You have an EMA living in the TT's base?


EMA=Electro Motive Animal

 

[jleon92f]

Unless the motor is in like-new condition, it may make some noise while running without a load.
Your turntable retracted the idler wheel [good], but did not shut the motor off [bad]. Hard to easily explain, unless you have an exploded view with part #'s, of the chassis, but suffice it to say that there is a pivoted lever that is probably sticking a bit on its pivot.
About the noise- either you have really great hearing, or the motor bearings are past-due for some oil.

Seth
Forever Analog and Covered In Parrot Poop

Thank you Seth,

I am working on my AR at the moment, new springs. I will take the Dual apart after this, I think that is what is happening, it was sticking once before. I cleaned and lubed all and it was fine.
I guess I need to check it out again. I have a few of this model, this one was the one that worked completely. The other ones have other issues.

I will let you know how it goes, if needed, do you repair this model?

John.

 

[NoTransistors]

Yes, John, I am refurbishing a 1229Q right this second. Yours is 99% the same.

Seth
Forever Analog and Covered In Parrot Poop

 

[jleon92f]

You have an EMA living in the TT's base?




EMA=Electro Motive Animal

You Know, that was the first thing a thought, that a Cricket or something else was in my room? We get that a lot out here, scorpions, spiders, and crickets.

Thanks for the humor..
John.

 

[Fred Longworth]

This is an easy one. The speed selector assembly on the far left is integrated with the lever that turns the motor on and off and with the idler wheel arm assembly.

When the speed selector get sticky due to gummy lubricants (and this is VERY common) it will often cause the lever that turns the motor on and off to bind. As fate would have it, this binding often makes the motor fail to shut off.

Similarly the same lever assembly that turns the motor on and off operates as a cam follower on the cycling cam via a pivot shaft. The lever assembly can get sticky on this shaft -- again preventing reliable turnoff of the motor.

Both symptoms can be cured by disassembly, cleaning of the old gummy lubricant, and relubrication with Phonolube or lithium grease.

Fred

 

[jleon92f]

This is an easy one. The speed selector assembly on the far left is integrated with the lever that turns the motor on and off and with the idler wheel arm assembly.

When the speed selector get sticky due to gummy lubricants (and this is VERY common) it will often cause the lever that turns the motor on and off to bind. As fate would have it, this binding often makes the motor fail to shut off.

Similarly the same lever assembly that turns the motor on and off operates as a cam follower on the cycling cam via a pivot shaft. The lever assembly can get sticky on this shaft -- again preventing reliable turnoff of the motor.

Both symptoms can be cured by disassembly, cleaning of the old gummy lubricant, and relubrication with Phonolube or lithium grease.



Fred

Thanks Fred,

It's on my list of things to do, this was unexpected. It was working fine last weekend. Would the motor have gotten ruined by staying on all the time?
Can it be lubed? Because that was most likely the noise of the bearings squeeling, and making weird sounds. I will leave it unplugged until I fix it.

Thanks again,

JOhn.

 

[NoTransistors]

A motor that is not in need of oil will not get ruined by spinning for extended periods.
You will need to remove, disassemble, oil, and reinstall, to see whether or not it is still good.

Seth
Forever Analog and Covered In Parrot Poop

 

[jleon92f]

Thanks for all the help, I feel a little better, I will take all into consideration and make repairs accordingly.

Thanks,
John.

 

[bohhey]

As has been said on this forum many times, any piece of mechanical equipment needs some attention, especially after 35 years. Fred correctly stated the most common issues. I'm sure that the motor is fine, but definitely needs to be opened up and bearings oiled.

Yours is a 2nd series design 1219 - definitely worth saving. They service up very well. The earlier series can be a bear to service. In addition, the early ones would not manually cue when you stack records.

 

[jleon92f]

As has been said on this forum many times, any piece of mechanical equipment needs some attention, especially after 35 years. Fred correctly stated the most common issues. I'm sure that the motor is fine, but definitely needs to be opened up and bearings oiled.

Yours is a 2nd series design 1219 - definitely worth saving. They service up very well. The earlier series can be a bear to service. In addition, the early ones would not manually cue when you stack records.

Thanks,
I will post the results when I get to it.
Thanks,
John.

 

[jleon92f]

Unless the motor is in like-new condition, it may make some noise while running without a load.
Your turntable retracted the idler wheel [good], but did not shut the motor off [bad]. Hard to easily explain, unless you have an exploded view with part #'s, of the chassis, but suffice it to say that there is a pivoted lever that is probably sticking a bit on its pivot.
About the noise- either you have really great hearing, or the motor bearings are past-due for some oil.

Seth
Forever Analog and Covered In Parrot Poop

Hi Seth,
I finally got the 1219 on the bench, hear is a picture if it helps.

John

 

[NoTransistors]

John,

There is a very short list of possible sticky points, and one possible adjustment and one possible capacitor.

It is my g.f.'s birthday. Thinking of taking her to The Bronx Zoo, and just leaving her there. If you don't have the service manual, just ask. Your photos may also help in pointing things out.

Seth
Forever Analog and Covered In Parrot Poop

I will try to get back to you after Desperate Housewives.

 

[jleon92f]

John,

There is a very short list of possible sticky points, and one possible adjustment and one possible capacitor.

It is my g.f.'s birthday. Thinking of taking her to The Bronx Zoo, and just leaving her there. If you don't have the service manual, just ask. Your photos may also help in pointing things out.

Seth
Forever Analog and Covered In Parrot Poop

I will try to get back to you after Desperate Housewives.

Thanks for any help,
Try and have a nice day, I have been married for 25+ years , so I know...

John.

 

[Arkay]

Noises when it is OFF? Several possibilities:

Ghosts.

The gremlins are trying to let out the magic smoke, or the smoke is struggling to escape.

Cockroaches are having a party.

The TT is complaining because you played an Engelbert Humperdink record on it.

You forgot to feed the squirrels.

If none of those pan out when you check them, then see the posts above this one.

 

[jleon92f]

Noises when it is OFF? Several possibilities:

Ghosts.

The gremlins are trying to let out the magic smoke, or the smoke is struggling to escape.

Cockroaches are having a party.

The TT is complaining because you played an Engelbert Humperdink record on it.

You forgot to feed the squirrels.

If none of those pan out when you check them, then see the posts above this one.

Thanks I needed some Humor!:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

 

[jleon92f]

OK,

I cleaned and lubed the 1219 up, I noticed that when I hook up the ground wire to the receiver it Hums? So I did not connect it. I cleaned the cartridge connections and put new RCA cables in her. Are all the 1219 motors the same?
So Far so good?

Pics.
John.

 

[jleon92f]

John,

There is a very short list of possible sticky points, and one possible adjustment and one possible capacitor.

It is my g.f.'s birthday. Thinking of taking her to The Bronx Zoo, and just leaving her there. If you don't have the service manual, just ask. Your photos may also help in pointing things out.

Seth
Forever Analog and Covered In Parrot Poop

I will try to get back to you after Desperate Housewives.

Hi Seth,

Does the Service manual have the breakdown of the motor? If so Can you please send it to me. I will post email in PM.
Thanks,
Hope your day is going well, I used to go to the Bronx Zoo to take pictures of the animals.

There are a few things I miss about NY, there is ALWAYS something to do!

Thanks,
John.

 

[bohhey]

You have a 1219 that was designed for sale outside of the US. You can tell by the switchable voltage on the power junction box, as well as that small lead weight screwed on the bottom of the chassis. That's there to reduce the "ringing" of the chassis. When United Audio imported them, they had Dual do away with that step.

Anyway, I've never seen a 1219 set up like yours with a separate ground wire - that's a US only thing (another long story - UA said American consumers would not buy a table without that wire). What was done everywhere else was to use in integral ground wire. Remove the cover on the muting switch (that box on the bottom where tonearm wiring goes). It snaps off. Look on the left hand side of the switch. Do you see a jumper wire soldered to the two left hand terminals, and then continuing on to that 3eared post screwed to the chassis through the muting switch bottom plate? If you do, that's your ground, and ground is achieved through the RCA jacks. If you hook up that separate ground wire as well, you get ground loop.