Dual 701 w/Grado ZC+
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chicks
Lunatic Member
Thanks!
How does this TT/arm rank relative to one of your supercharged ARs? Flip the Dual to cover the cost of updating my non-functional two-motor AR? Or can the Dual compete?
chicks
Lunatic Member
Reread the posts, mostly from one of the esteemed techs regarding the 701 being a PITA to work on.
This quote from bohhey (fixmydual.com) is reassuring.
"Versus ANY Dual, and I include the 1229Q, which I own two, I feel that the automatic controls on ther 701 leave all of the others in the DUST in smoothness. Functions are changed electronically, not dependent a mechanical trip switch to drop.
The 701 is all class - Dual's best.
Period."
beatcomber
AK Member
I have a ZC+ that I probably bought new in the early '90s. I'm currently using it with an 8MZ stylus on an AR turntable that Marc Morin resto-modded for me, and it sounds fantastic! Curiously, my ZC+ has no date stamp anywhere on it, which is unusual for a Grado.
It should be a great match for the Dual arm.
It should be a great match for the Dual arm.
marcmorin
RIP 1953-2020
Dunno.....never had/heard a Dual. In regards to the thread topic, if the ZC+ behaves itself in the arm and tracks as it should, grado offers some very nice styli upgrades. :yes:
muovimies
Super Member
Beatcomber had a thread with samples from a modded AR and a stock, restored Dual 1229 (or was it 1219, either way...) - even though the 701 is a different animal, I think that should give you some idea on the differences - apart from the drive system I think the rest of it is very comparable, tonearm etc. ... those Dual arms are actually pretty good IMO, they don't look that impressive, but it's a solid low mass design.
EDIT: and just read the opener again and realized you have owned a 1219 : )
chicks
Lunatic Member
Yeah, but the arm mechanism kept binding, so it was never fully functional. I did have a 1019 with a Grado Black, which was a pretty good match. I wish this 701 had its solid wood base! If I keep the 701, I might have to look into replacement bases...
danj
modern primitive
A 701! That's the only Dual I would choose over a 1229. If I came upon a nice specimen for a reasonable price I'd have my wallet out faster than the speed of light.
Yes, they can be a PITA to work on but the fact is that one needing work is unlikely. Some from the production run had problems but you are not likely to find one of those still working.
Yes, they can be a PITA to work on but the fact is that one needing work is unlikely. Some from the production run had problems but you are not likely to find one of those still working.
chicks
Lunatic Member
Dunno What you are asking, if anything.
Listen to the thing .. and decide
OK, but only after ensuring the stylus is good. Under a magnifying glass, there‘s no sign of dust, looks unused. Like he bought it then never played records.
Pairing good solid German engineering with great German industrial design...
Excellent TT/TA. Giving my Dual 701 to my grand-daughter as an upgrade to her system this Xmas. Every 12yr-old should have one (and get rid of their digital crap).
The "PITA to work on" likely comes from the fact that the output signal wiring is too short and one has to reach in/around to get them loose to remove from the base. Indeed, is a PITA. The heavy wood base would be an improvement, but the stock base is certainly adequate.
The "PITA to work on" likely comes from the fact that the output signal wiring is too short and one has to reach in/around to get them loose to remove from the base. Indeed, is a PITA. The heavy wood base would be an improvement, but the stock base is certainly adequate.
NoTransistors
Dual Turntables Super-Restorer
I have taken a few moments out of packing to log onto my favorite web group.
My 701 cannot come close to my 1219. The electronic drive is constantly correcting its speed, while the 'ancient' drive system of the 1219 actually locks into line frequency. Some ears will hear the difference. Furthermore, both turntables share the same basic design of the auto mechanism. You might have misquoted Bill. The only function on the 701 that is not mechanically worked is speed selection.
Did you know that the 701 platter had to be redesigned to prevent more of them from warping? The 1st design platter was nothing more than a 1229 platter with the idler contact rim cut off. This is why it would warp. The newer platter has more meat.
Also, the motor did go through several design changes to improve reliability.
Still not as temperature-stabilized as the 721. The 701 speed does drift with temperature.
The arm on the 701 is very very, light, and how it works with a particular cartridge is variable. The higher-mass 1219 arm sounds great with nearly every cartridge.
To change the subject for a moment, has anyone here felt the weight of the 1019 arm? The outer dearing ring may be on ball bearings, but weighs like 1/2 pound. I have one in my spare parts bin, and find it quite amazing that any stylus can drag this across the arc of a record. But great does that turntable sound.
Well, back to packing. Moving is not easy for someone who has 57 years of stuff collected.
My 701 cannot come close to my 1219. The electronic drive is constantly correcting its speed, while the 'ancient' drive system of the 1219 actually locks into line frequency. Some ears will hear the difference. Furthermore, both turntables share the same basic design of the auto mechanism. You might have misquoted Bill. The only function on the 701 that is not mechanically worked is speed selection.
Did you know that the 701 platter had to be redesigned to prevent more of them from warping? The 1st design platter was nothing more than a 1229 platter with the idler contact rim cut off. This is why it would warp. The newer platter has more meat.
Also, the motor did go through several design changes to improve reliability.
Still not as temperature-stabilized as the 721. The 701 speed does drift with temperature.
The arm on the 701 is very very, light, and how it works with a particular cartridge is variable. The higher-mass 1219 arm sounds great with nearly every cartridge.
To change the subject for a moment, has anyone here felt the weight of the 1019 arm? The outer dearing ring may be on ball bearings, but weighs like 1/2 pound. I have one in my spare parts bin, and find it quite amazing that any stylus can drag this across the arc of a record. But great does that turntable sound.
Well, back to packing. Moving is not easy for someone who has 57 years of stuff collected.
chicks
Lunatic Member
Thanks for weighing in! Interesting that the most knowledgeable Dual techs have such different opinions about the "best" Dual. Here's the bohhey quote:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=605469&postcount=12
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=605469&postcount=12
NoTransistors
Dual Turntables Super-Restorer
He must have smoking the good stuff that day. Bill well knows that the turntable still all gears and levers. including a mechanical trip.