DVD Audio

[Micropassatman]

The really high end Sony's can sound very good too, but the middle-end and lower units sound distinctly medieocre unless modified quite subtantially.

I own a Sony DVP-NC650V that IMHO sounds wonderful when playing SACD. What types of substantial modification would be required to make this unit sound better than 'mediocre', as you so gently put it?

 

[tcdriver]

Actually, the top-of-the-line SACD players from Denon, Marantz, and Sony are all 2 channel stereo players. Sony's cost US$13,000!!
QUOTE]

It is interesting to note that Sony no longer releases new SACDs yet they offer a $13,000 player. It looks as though the hardware side of Sony does not know what the software side is up to.

With SACD players that sell for less than $200 that play multi-channel as well as two channel stereo, why would anyone want to buy an expensive player that plays only two channels? Maybe the next offering will be an even more expensive player that will play only one channel. :lmao:

 

[yamahammer]

sherwood makes a excellent dvd player in their newcastle line with 24 bit burr brown dac and more bells and whistles than i will ever use retails for 299 0r is it 399 i won one for 100.00 on epray a couple months ago and it has suited me fine audio is grerat and video is superbmight be out of your price range m2centsw

 

[goldear]

I own a Sony DVP-NC650V that IMHO sounds wonderful when playing SACD. What types of substantial modification would be required to make this unit sound better than 'mediocre', as you so gently put it?

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone here, was just trying to offer on honest opinion based on my experience on the subject. I have not heard your particular unit, so I cannot comment on its sound, other than to say that a friend of mine who had one was not blown away by its sound. But I can say that all of the lower-end Sony that I have personally heard, I have not been overly impressed by their sound, in stock form.

Now I say this as an owner of a Sony C-333ES SACD player, which was itself a lower-end offering by Sony in its day. Mine stock sounded, well, medeocre (sorry, but this is the truth). On SACD, it did sound very nice indeed (but certainly not superb), but on Redbook it got its socks completely blown-off by my old CAL Alpha DAC! I also tried out a C-555ES in my system, and I felt that it sounded, dowright "hard" and unpleasant (my wife heard the exactly same thing, and she liked it even less than I did, and was literally relieved when I said that I would not be buying it).

On my Sony, I installed the VSE mod http://www.vacuumstate.com/various/SACD_2005.pdf designed by Allan Wright. Wow, what an amazing improvement that made!!!! This unit now sounds roughly equal to my CAL on Redbook CDs (and that is a BIG complement in my book), and it is now at least a full level beyond my CAL when I listen to SACDs!

There are many different mods out there for Sony SACD players. Richard Kern of Audiomod does many SACD mods, and there are pleanty of others too. If you have never lived with a really superb CD player, then I can understand why you would question my judgment on the sound of the Sonys. Because without hearing a player on your own system that blows it away, I could understand how you could think that it sounds pretty good.

 

[Micropassatman]

It looks as though the hardware side of Sony does not know what the software side is up to.

Sadly, this is too true about Sony Corp. There are many hands, and none of them know, or care, what the other hands are doing. They all have very separate goals and concerns. It is why the Playstation does so well, and the minidisc died(in North America anyway), and was reborn again. Is the 13k player you're referring to, within the Qualia line?

 

[Micropassatman]

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone here, was just trying to offer on honest opinion based on my experience on the subject.

If you have never lived with a really superb CD player, then I can understand why you would question my judgment on the sound of the Sonys. Because without hearing a player on your own system that blows it away, I could understand how you could think that it sounds pretty pretty good.

No offense taken, at least about the lower-end Sonys. I think the reason I may not be underwhelmed by my player's redbook performance, might have to do with the fact that it is only used as a transport sled and changer mechanism - my receiver does all the DtoA conversion. It feeds all the zeroes and ones into my STR-DA5ES receiver via a coaxial digital connection. I like the sound of the Sony PULSE D/A converter/and the full-forward digital filter combo that my receiver contains. I only use the analog out on the player for multichannel SACD playback. Previously, I had owned a CDP-CX90ES - and was blown away by the difference it made to my system, over its predecessor. Before the ES unit, I seriously could not listen to CDs at loud volumes for more than 20 minutes before shutting it off. It was pervasively 'harsh', to say the least.

 

[Billfort]

why would anyone want to buy an expensive player that plays only two channels?

How about because some are only interested in good 2-channel?

I own several SACD players, a low dollar player, a decent up-sampling multi-channel machine and a higher priced 2-channel player and will say this, SACD can be a very good sounding format, almost analog-like at times and the old rule - you get what you pay for - holds true big time with the hardware.

BK's original post asked of DVD-A "Does anyone have an idea if this is going to be the new preferred format for a while?" and to that I would say definitively no, it's not the preferred format. If you want to sample the new hi-res stuff a multi-format player might be the best bet but make sure you consider SACD as well.

For some, particularly those that like hi-res in their 2-channel music only systems (that would be me), SACD has been a fantastic development while DVD-A is not even considered.

 

[Micropassatman]

There are pluses and minuses to both - neither one will really go anywhere in the end!!

Dave

Although my initial reaction to this statement was to balk - I must admit that with the advent of Blue-Ray on the not-so-distant horizon, I believe Sony has other Hi-Rez plans in the works...SACD may be dead, but multichannel audio has yet to reach its potential.

 

[Billfort]

I won't get into 'format wars' again, it's been covered to death. All I know is that there is a HELL of a lot of music available on SACD, more coming out regularly, it can sound fantastic and I'm damn glad it's here - never thought I'd hear digital that I liked.

All I wanted to say is that it might not be a good idea to hitch yourself to DVD-A only and it might not be real smart to judge these things and make blanket statements based on low dollar players.

 

[goldear]

I don't know what to make about this rumor of SACD's demise. I really hope that it isn't true, as I am a HUGE fan of this format. It is simply the most analog sounding digital format that I have ever heard. I have read those rumors of the format's demise too, but I have read some pretty strong, and convincing denials of this by a number of people who would be in the position to to really know. Were they telling the truth, or were they just being politicians, and doing what all politicians do? :scratch2: I honestly don't know for sure, but I do tend to believe them.

There are some pretty strong reasons why it is in the music industry's best interest to support SACD because there is no way to presently copy the DSD stream digitally. Also, LOTS of manufacurers are making universal Players. Could Sony be sandbagging the format? Possibly. Maybe they simply are giving up too easily after the failurs of Betamax, and Elcaset. But yes, the Blue-ray stuff is an interesting development, and I'm not sure exactly what to make of it.

But, as of the moment at least, SACD is NOT dead. Sick in bed, with a possible death-watch on; possibly. Will it survive? Who knows, but I do believe that it's survival is a better bet than DVD Audio's.

 

[tcdriver]

I won't get into 'format wars' again, it's been covered to death. All I know is that there is a HELL of a lot of music available on SACD, more coming out regularly, it can sound fantastic and I'm damn glad it's here - never thought I'd hear digital that I liked.

All I wanted to say is that it might not be a good idea to hitch yourself to DVD-A only and it might not be real smart to judge these things and make blanket statements based on low dollar players.

Why have format wars? With universal players one can have the best of all worlds. There is indeed a "HELL of a lot of music available on SACD" and DVD-A too. I would hate to be stuck with only one or the other high resolution formats particularly when there are universal players in all price ranges.

 

[uofmtiger]

There is indeed a "HELL of a lot of music available on SACD" and DVD-A too. I would hate to be stuck with only one or the other high resolution formats particularly when there are universal players in all price ranges.

I agree. I can't think of a reason to buy a machine that only plays one or the other.

I also agree that there are a lot of choices on both formats to please almost anyone that is interested in better sound quality. The SACD hybrids are my favorites because they include a CD layer.

 

[soundboy]

It is interesting to note that Sony no longer releases new SACDs yet they offer a $13,000 player. It looks as though the hardware side of Sony does not know what the software side is up to.

Actually, within the next 2 weeks, US Sony is releasing 2 SACD titles (one of them being Roger Waters' opera !) In June and July, US Sony also released another 2 SACD titles. This is besides the BMG Living Stereo SACDs, if you count SonyBMG as one company.

 

[Billfort]

I don't know what to make about this rumor of SACD's demise.

I'd make nothing of it right now goldear, it keeps coming up again...and again...and again...and again.

Here's the last obituary from right here on AK.

I think 'SACD is dead/or dying' just like vinyl and tubes are. I'm not too worried about any of this 'dead' stuff, just playing it all and enjoying the music.

 

[tcdriver]

Actually, within the next 2 weeks, US Sony is releasing 2 SACD titles (one of them being Roger Waters' opera !) In June and July, US Sony also released another 2 SACD titles. This is besides the BMG Living Stereo SACDs, if you count SonyBMG as one company.

I stand corrected. That is great news that Sony is again supporting the format they created. I did not count the BMG/RCA discs. I have purchased several of them and have found them to be quite good. It seems a little more than half of Living Stereo SACDs are three-channel (Left Front, Center, Right Front). The extra channel adds a lot. Good thing I did not buy a $13,000 two-channel only SACD player.

Some players that play back 2.0 and 5.1 channel music:

Pioneer DV-588A-S $149 plays SACD and DVD-A.
Cambridge Azur 540D $379 plays DVD-A.
Yamaha DV-S5770 $450 plays SACD and DVD-A.
Marantz VC5400 $550 DVD-A.
Marantz DV6500 $650 plays SACD and DVD-A.
Marantz DV7600 $1,099 plays SACD and DVD-A.
Marantz DV9500 $2,100 plays SACD and DVD-A.

 

[soundboy]

How about $60.00 shipped for a new Toshiba universal player?

 

[Charivari]

How about $60.00 shipped for a new Toshiba universal player?

I accidentally ordered one of those yesterday morning. Long story, rather not get into it, just be satisfied that 4:30 in the morning and a curiosity to see what the discounted price is by adding item to the shopping cart don't mix. That price includes free shipping, but I'm waiting to see just how slow is this free shipping. Hope it's worth it. Two new sources in one week, don't know how I'm going to handle it.

- JP

 

[soundboy]

Actually, within the next 2 weeks, US Sony is releasing 2 SACD titles (one of them being Roger Waters' opera !) In June and July, US Sony also released another 2 SACD titles. This is besides the BMG Living Stereo SACDs, if you count SonyBMG as one company.

Hahaha, quoting myself

I also noticed MoFi has licensed 3 titles from Sony to be released on hybrid SACD....Earth Wind & Fire's "That's The Way of the World" (30th Anniversary Audiophile Limited Edition), Blood, Sweat & Tears - self-titled album, and Edgar Winter Group - They Only Come Out At Night.

The EW&F SACD is out while the other are upcoming releases.

 

[Kegger]

I use both sacd/dvd-a and fine that yes for the overall experience they are superiour
to regular cd's in every way. Even though both of my new players sound better on cd's
then my previous players did.

I use mine all the time for stereo even, makes a wonderful difference, both sacd/dvd-a.
While yes they can be truly awe inspiring on multichannel they make great upgrades for
2 channel also. I play more sacd in 2 channel then I do in multi, just sounds wonderful.

The inexpensive 563a pioneer is pretty incredable at the price and does everything, if
you have copied media it works wonderful on that to. But I do like my denon a little bit
better as far as 2 channel listening goes for both sacd/dvd-a and regular cd's.

I have both the pioneer563a for my home theatre and the Denon2200 mainly for music.
Both are great players and for my setup I couldn't live with just one as the pioneer does
play all my burnt movies that the denon won't but the denon plays music better for me.

One of the newer denon's may be the best of both worlds. But if you want to just grab
a cheap player to get your feet wet you can't go wrong with the pioneer. You find them
on epay all the time for around $100 or less and even if you upgrade to a better player
later the pioneer will still give you some great uses, plus leave you some cash to get the
disks you want to play on it.

2 of my favorites are (James Tayler) october road and (Steely Dan) gaucho in stereo
mainly, the best surrounds are (Pink Floyd) dark side of the moon and (Beck) Sea Change!

(Porcupine tree) "In Absentia" is excelent in both surround and 2 channel, in my oppinion!

 

[soundboy]

2 of my favorites are (James Tayler) october road and (Steely Dan) gaucho in stereo
mainly, the best surrounds are (Pink Floyd) dark side of the moon and (Beck) Sea Change!

(Porcupine tree) "In Absentia" is excelent in both surround and 2 channel, in my oppinion!

Steely Dan's "Gaucho" is shockingly good on SACD. And it's available on DVD-A as well.