Early Linn LP12

[cattlethief]

Hi I picked this turntable up yesterday and have reading all about the early days of Linn since yesterday,before then I had never seen an LP12 up close,I would have posted this in the thread when an Ariston RD11 is a Linn LP12 but it has been closed,the only sticker which is left on the top plate is the final inspection one which is signed,no serial number anywhere, I have been told the original owner was a Linn employee and he did the few changes which have been done to this table ie the sub chassis and armboard,I think it had a Linn basik v tonearm attached.
I thought I would share.

cheers Stuart

 

[Macaroonie]

Hey Stuart , thanks for posting. I'm curious about the sub platter , I've never seen one like that
Could you post a few more pics please. Could be a one off..?

I notice your deck has the glued on channel section on the bottom side of the sub chassis. This replaced the spot welded version as you probably know. The spot welding caused warping and was a constant problem
As long ago as 1976 when I worked there and suggested it might be a better plan to glue the parts together I was told in no uncertain terms that it would ' ruin the sound '.

Oh well.

 

[mh1947]

That has to be a very, very early Linn. Like 1974-75. The first one I saw had a single orange power button on the left. Probably around 1976. That model was later upgraded to a Nirvana and then Valhalla in the early 1980s with the improved electronics and black power switch with a red LED. There were probably some other improvements during those years. Is it possible to upgrade one that old?

 

[cattlethief]

Hi wasnt sure about the glued part although did think it was newer and the motor hasnt got a cage built over for support,
Just getting into the story of the Linn LP12,I am going to keep clean this table up and maybe add better/newer springer and of course an
tonearm but do not intend to spend a lot of money on it,I like to keep things in there original shape.

 

[cattlethief]

That has to be a very, very early Linn. Like 1974-75. The first one I saw had a single orange power button on the left. Probably around 1976. That model was later upgraded to a Nirvana and then Valhalla in the early 1980s with the improved electronics and black power switch with a red LED. There were probably some other improvements during those years. Is it possible to upgrade one that old?

It was the first of the LP12,s with the 2 buttons maybe 72,73 and was probably an Ariston RD11 rebadged and sold on to employees cheaply,I think when Linn started to market them they changed the switch and the plinth,but this I have only read recently so not 100%.
But I am now curious about the subplatter not being original because it is in excellent condition and is a very nice fit(no play)

 

[Ilikevinyl]

Looks like it's in very good condition! Get a Linn Ittok tonearm!

 

[cre009]

I have been continuing to log the details of the Ariston RD11 and early Linn LP12s which show up and is now considerably expanded from what I put up in the Ariston-Linn thread previously. The sub platter is very different to any I have seen with a lip which is very much thicker than what was on my twin button RD11. The later sub platters have a thin lip relative to the early ones. The condition looks very clean given the age. I guess it could have been a prototype.

Its a pity there is no serial. I am aware of 6 LP12s with twin buttons but they are all believed to be factory sold.

From my current list.

Linn LP12s ex Castle twin button - believed to be factory sold - serial numbers appear to intermingle with standard retail LP12s which were sold with rocker switch rather than twin buttons. Hamstall researched some of these decks and verified they were factory sold and was also of the view that no Linn LP12s with twin buttons were sold via dealers. No indication if these were a final batch of decks being sold off or some from the prior batch with labels changed.
0005 - 0005 on inspection label - yellow label torn
0022 - claimed to exist - no images - xttps://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=6935
0034 - claimed to exist - no images - xttps://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=6935
0088 - 0088 on inspection label - yellow label torn- no images
3503 - 3503 on inspection label - yellow label torn- no images
4225 - 4225 on inspection label - yellow label torn- no images

 

[bimasta]

On the 25th anniversary of the LP12, the UK audio mag HiFi News did a comparative review of the first model commercially released, with the then-current model, after 25 years of "improvements". The conclusion: sonic differences were minor; one model or the other might appeal more to any given individual; but both were fine turntables. This comparison was published circa 1998–2000, written by Ken Kessler.

I agree with Ilikevinyl regarding the Ittok. I've used one on non-Linn TTs for 20 years.

I realize this post veers very close to the dispute whether Linn stole Ariston's design, but I don't go there.

 

[cattlethief]

I have been continuing to log the details of the Ariston RD11 and early Linn LP12s which show up and is now considerably expanded from what I put up in the Ariston-Linn thread previously. The sub platter is very different to any I have seen with a lip which is very much thicker than what was on my twin button RD11. The later sub platters have a thin lip relative to the early ones. The condition looks very clean given the age. I guess it could have been a prototype.

Its a pity there is no serial. I am aware of 6 LP12s with twin buttons but they are all believed to be factory sold.

From my current list.

Linn LP12s ex Castle twin button - believed to be factory sold - serial numbers appear to intermingle with standard retail LP12s which were sold with rocker switch rather than twin buttons. Hamstall researched some of these decks and verified they were factory sold and was also of the view that no Linn LP12s with twin buttons were sold via dealers. No indication if these were a final batch of decks being sold off or some from the prior batch with labels changed.
0005 - 0005 on inspection label - yellow label torn
0022 - claimed to exist - no images - xttps://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=6935
0034 - claimed to exist - no images - xttps://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=6935
0088 - 0088 on inspection label - yellow label torn- no images
3503 - 3503 on inspection label - yellow label torn- no images
4225 - 4225 on inspection label - yellow label torn- no images

I believe the original owner of mine worked in the factory,no serial number but the inspection sticker was signed by William James(Hamish) Roberston who designed the original bearing.

 

[IMF_Pioneer]

The reason why the other thread got locked was because a certain member on here (and he knows who he is) continually slandered Ivor Tiefenbrun and that's a certain path to litigation for this site.

On to the original topic, I hope that this thread gets a very long life and has many contributors as that's how information is gathered to help database building for historical purposes.


and Yes getting an Ittok (LV3 Mk III is the best and rarest variant) would be the best option for this era LP12.

 

[bimasta]

@IMF_Pioneer Do you know the difference between the Ittok Mk3 and the Mk2, which I use? I know the Mk3 was offered in black, and I've read the armtube was glued at both ends (anticipating the Ekos) not screwed. Anything else? The proverbial better bearings all new-model tonearms boast of? How good can they get, there's a limit, and Linn's famous "swing test" would reveal it.

If you detect some cynicism in my tone, you're right. But I've been using the Mk2 for over 20 years and admire it far more than the LP12 and the company in general. So this query is sincere.

 

[cre009]

I believe the original owner of mine worked in the factory,no serial number but the inspection sticker was signed by William James(Hamish)View attachment 1969094 Roberston who designed the original bearing.

The WJR signature is the same as those on the early batch of RD11 turntables.

The ones that have shown up are in the range 00061 to 95. This seems an odd start for a new range so I would speculate that perhaps around 50 were built but only 40 sold to Hamish with the balance going to Castle employees who were involved with the development.

Ariston - ex Castle twin button
000001 - claimed to exist - no images but said to be obtained ex demo direct from Hamish - was this a Hamish prototype which would likely date it to mid 71?

none from 000002 to 000060. Would be useful to know if any of these exist!

Ariston RD11 Twin button decks
000061 - claimed to exist - no images
000073 - claimed to exist - no images
000082 - original top plate - WJR initials as signature - yellow label intact - various components replaced with LP12 parts
000095 - WJR initials/signature - yellow label intact
0000xx - deck with no yellow label or serial number label - WJR signature on inspection label - odd looking plinth that was probably not original - assumed to belong to this range
The WJR signatures are believed to represent William James (Hamish) Robertson but not clear if they are by Hamish or someone else recording that the deck was inspected by Hamish.
The above decks may be from the 40 mentioned in the Patent hearing. "Robertsons's company Thermac then ordered some 40 such units from Castle. Now as Ariston, Robertson then planned a display of the units for Harrogate in September 1971. C. W. and J Walker were appointed selling agents for the turntable- by now christened the RD11. The turntable was indeed shown at Harrogate that year and the RD11 sales literature boasted "a unique single point bearing" and "almost rumble free sound".

https://postimg.cc/image/rhott93yt/

https://postimg.cc/image/7abe0ye79/

https://postimg.cc/image/4g88nirgl/

https://postimg.cc/image/e0rvae92t/

 

[Macaroonie]

The reason why the other thread got locked was because a certain member on here (and he knows who he is) continually slandered Ivor Tiefenbrun and that's a certain path to litigation for this site.

On to the original topic, I hope that this thread gets a very long life and has many contributors as that's how information is gathered to help database building for historical purposes.


and Yes getting an Ittok (LV3 Mk III is the best and rarest variant) would be the best option for this era LP12.

Factually wrong. The member who started the thread asked that it be closed.

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...an-ariston-a-linn-sondek-lp-12.741974/page-24

Last post.

 

[Macaroonie]

@cre009 The thing about the early numbers that perplexes me is that 40 decks would barely be enough to stock demo units into participating dealers never mind decks that were for sale.
I worked in a Dealer way back then and we did have RD11's and did get sales stock.

 

[jrtrent]

@IMF_Pioneer Do you know the difference between the Ittok Mk3 and the Mk2, which I use? I know the Mk3 was offered in black, and I've read the armtube was glued at both ends (anticipating the Ekos) not screwed. Anything else? The proverbial better bearings all new-model tonearms boast of? How good can they get, there's a limit, and Linn's famous "swing test" would reveal it.

If you detect some cynicism in my tone, you're right. But I've been using the Mk2 for over 20 years and admire it far more than the LP12 and the company in general. So this query is sincere.

I started with a later LVll (single-piece counterweight) and later bought an LVlll/2 with my second LP12 (a Cirkus model in 1993). As far as I know, that was the last Ittok. I believe it had a shorter headshell than the LVlll or LVll, and it also had an integral arm rest (similar to the Ekos arm rest). I can't vouch for the information, but here is what one FAQ had to say:

"The Ittok came first as LVII, later replaced by LVIII and finally (for a short period) as LVIII/2 with Ekos-type arm-rest (no hole in the arm board needed).
The Ittok LVII has a mark 1 and mark 2 series but this are not official Linn designations.
The mark 1 has a two piece counter weight, a smaller diameter pillar, and a 5 mm set screw in the arm collar to name a few features which make it easy to distinguish from a later mark 2.
Also the Ittok with the 20mm pillar would be considered a mark 1 and the 25 mm pillar a mark 2.
All Ittok's after S/N 3000 have 25mm pillar, i.e. mark 2 (unofficially).
Arms with S/N after 31300 are Ittok LVIII."
The LVII also existed in black. They were more expensive as new and are very rare. Only 1000 were made. There were also a few black LVIIIs. http://www.hoth.uk/LP12-FAQ.htm#arminfo

 

[IMF_Pioneer]

Member jrtrent has pretty well nailed it about the Ittok and thus no need for me to elaborate any further.

 

[IMF_Pioneer]

Factually wrong. The member who started the thread asked that it be closed.

as much as you want to believe it, I Find that pretty hard to agree with.

 

[bimasta]

Thanks JR, you're a mine of information.

 

[Old Guy8]

Interesting thread. I've a 1983 Valhala with Basik LVX. I've read criticism of this arm. Other than re-caping, no modifications. Not compared to Linns better arms. I'm unlikely to spend more to upgrade the arm.
Have a Pioneer PL570 which I also like. Don't know which is better, TT. Different beasts. Different carts.

 

[Ilikevinyl]

I started with a later LVll (single-piece counterweight) and later bought an LVlll/2 with my second LP12 (a Cirkus model in 1993). As far as I know, that was the last Ittok. I believe it had a shorter headshell than the LVlll or LVll, and it also had an integral arm rest (similar to the Ekos arm rest). I can't vouch for the information, but here is what one FAQ had to say:

"The Ittok came first as LVII, later replaced by LVIII and finally (for a short period) as LVIII/2 with Ekos-type arm-rest (no hole in the arm board needed).
The Ittok LVII has a mark 1 and mark 2 series but this are not official Linn designations.
The mark 1 has a two piece counter weight, a smaller diameter pillar, and a 5 mm set screw in the arm collar to name a few features which make it easy to distinguish from a later mark 2.
Also the Ittok with the 20mm pillar would be considered a mark 1 and the 25 mm pillar a mark 2.
All Ittok's after S/N 3000 have 25mm pillar, i.e. mark 2 (unofficially).
Arms with S/N after 31300 are Ittok LVIII."
The LVII also existed in black. They were more expensive as new and are very rare. Only 1000 were made. There were also a few black LVIIIs. http://www.hoth.uk/LP12-FAQ.htm#arminfo

From my Ittok readings, the single piece counterweight sounds better than the split.