eBay "pinging": Does it work? Is it moral?

[Njord Noatun]

Someone mentioned in another thread that they knew of an auction bidding strategy that could be used to reveal the high bidder's maximum bid: The strategy was called "pinging", and having never heard of this term in the context of eBay auctions, I decided to find out what this entails. I haven't found a whole lot of info, but this is how it goes:

As a preface, eBay's bidding increments for items $25 and up are:

$ 25.00 - $ 99.99: $ 1.00
$ 100.00 - $ 249.99: $ 2.50
$ 250.00 - $ 499.99: $ 5.00
$ 500.00 - $ 999.99: $ 10.00
$ 1000.00 - $ 2499.99: $ 25.00
$ 2500.00 - $ 4999.99: $ 50.00
$ 5000.00 and up: $ 100.00

Let's say that you are interested in a Pioneer SX-1250 vintage receiver. You gather it is worth $550, but it is early in the auction and the current high bidder is at $250. Now, you want find out what his maximum (concealed, "proxy") bid is, and this is what you do:

Bid the next step bidding increment ($5) - $255. If his proxy bid is higher than this, the new bid will jump to $260. You bid again at the $5 bidding increment, to $265. His bid will jump to $270. Keep on bid-incrementing ($5, $10, whatever it is at the bidding level you are at) until his bid jumps by less than the increment: Then you know that his limit has been reached at that amount!

This should work for all auctions where the high bidder's proxy is higher than his current high. If this work as I have described it above, this would be just another reason to use sniping software, as there would be no time for other pingers to find out what your proxy high is.

Any thoughts? Does this really work this way? And is it moral?

 

[similost]

The problem I see with it is, the other person may believe you want the item too, and he wants it worse.. SO, what you have really done is probably cause the item to sell for a lot more than either of you had intensions of paying. He may decide to up the bid at the very end.

I've tried this myself, and it has caused a bidding frenzy at the end..

I've found I've won more, and paid better prices by just waiting until the last few seconds of the auction and putting in my highest bid. I've also found I've gotten more that way for a better price than I was expecting.

By "pinging" you are really giving people more time to let their emotions get involved than if you wait until the end of the auction to decide what the item is worth to you.

 

[Njord Noatun]

By "pinging" you are really giving people more time to let their emotions get involved than if you wait until the end of the auction to decide what the item is worth to you.

This is not what I am promoting: The way I could see it work would be to stop once his max is revealed, and then plan accordingly, for example by setting up a snipe bid just higher.

I would never my bid early - if the purpose was simply to become the highest bidder, I would just submit a "nuke bid".

So the point of this exercise is simply to gently uncover the opposition's max without revealing your intents.

 

[whoaru99]

Why not just bid proxy with the max you are willing to pay and be done with it?

All I see doing with the "ping" is like simi said, either you cost someone else a bunch of money for something you're not really that serious about buying, or it just starts the feeding frenzy.

I guess my feelings are put in good bid if you want the item, or stay out of the auction. To me, running up the numbers just to see how deep the water is is sorta BS.

 

[RWFE]

I see nothing wrong with it. The fact is that you are bidding and that is what ebay is all about. I see no moral problem with bidding in any manner so long as you follow through should you become the high bidder and ultimately win.

 

[luvvinvinyl]

If you nibble at the reserve of the current high bidder, I don't think that will help you win the auction. There could be one or more watchers, who will bid at the end. Nibbling really only tells others that you are
a) an eBay newbie, who doesn't have a bidding strategy, or
b) intentionally driving up the price of the item, either to take money out of the high bidder's wallet, or to put money INTO the wallet of the seller.

If all you want to do is find out the reserve, submit a nuke bid, look at the bid history, and then retract your bid. Do it quickly, and only you will know what the reserve is. You had better have a 'disposable' ID, though, as you won't do that many times, before the ID gets NARU'd.

 

[Andyman]

I don't understand; what do you do AFTER you find out what his max bid is?

If you leave it, fine.
If you cancel your bids and pull back to wait, I think you're a douchebag.

As a seller, I hate bidders who retract bids for crapola reasons. If you aren't willing to pay your bid; DON'T BID!!

 

[similost]

I don't believe he is looking to retract the bid. I think he is looking for a way to find the high holder's top dollar...

As I said, I've tried this stratagy myself a few times, and every time it has ended up in me losing, and the other person spending more than I thought they were going to spend, OR, someone else jumping in at the very end and blowing us both outta the water.

I've found sniping to be the best deal. I've bid on so much stuff, but won very little comparatively, however, I've probably put a lot more money in the sellers pocket, and cost other bidders more than they planned. Not on purpose, but because I was new and not sure what I was doing.

I stick to the snipe now. I never put in a bid before the last few minutes. I've picked up stuff that way being the only bidder. Had I bid early, that would have probably brought other fish to the frenzy..

 

[meggy]

Sometimes I do that with mfsl vinyl just because I know of some regular sellers whose norm is over the top reserves and I don't want to spend time fooling around with it if it's not inside my max.

It seemingly does however, drive the bidding up higher and sooner.

IMO, in the end it doesn't really help you to win if you have a set max in mind. Highest bid wins. Plus, you really don't have any additional information than you would if you didn't ping. You just have it sooner. Again, so what? Highest bid wins.

Under normal circumstances (like Njord), I don't bid until the end unless I know I won't be around a computer at ending time. Any bid results in higher bid by someone else. What would be the point of bidding $25 on a .99 cent starting bid for a sealed MFSL "Super Sessions" in a 14 day auction. You gotta be there at the end ready with the big bucks. It'll get there by itself.

 

[Andyman]

Why tip your hand?
I just watch them and wait.........

BTW, bid wacky numbers. like $27.66, not $25.00, $103.62, not $100.00, and you'll beat out the Joneses who stick to the even price points quite often. :yes:

 

[RSL'67]

Yep - I've used sniping software in the past, which does work well...for a fee.

Nowadays, I simply get my max bid set in my mind - wait 'til the last few minutes and slam it in. If I win - I win...if I lose, it was priced out of my bidding range.

Takes all of the emotion out of it for me - which I prefer.

 

[Njord Noatun]

I don't believe he is looking to retract the bid. I think he is looking for a way to find the high holder's top dollar....

Yes, that is exactly the gist of it! I would never even dream of purposefully submitting a bid just to withdraw it.

This method is just another tool that, now that I am aware of it, will be another tool in my arsenal: My main tools will always remain 1) to determine your max. price and to stick to it, and 2) to use sniping software.

 

[similost]

I don't use the snipe software. I just make sure my clock on my PC is synced atomic-ly, then watch it and bid the last few seconds manually.. Yes, I have to watch the auction to bid, but I would rather do that than just submit blindly. That way I may not even bid.. or change my mind last second what my top price is.

 

[pustelniakr]

Pinging is not exactly a good or nice thing to do to another bidder. What it does is run up what the other bidder is going to have to pay, without risking yourself to having to pay what you bid. If you want it, bid on it. If not, leave it alone.

I would expect pinging to become illegal when this catches on, and pingers can be easily detected. Bid history will reveal them with a simple examination or software algorithm. I suggest that this could be considered a type of shill bidding, where a seller is aided in getting as much as possible for an item. It may already be illegal for that reason. :thumbsdn:

Enjoy,
Rich P

 

[JohnG]

It works at discovering the highest current bid, but so what? Bid late, bid YOUR max, and be done with it.

 

[bowtie427ss]

I have to pretty much agree with Rich P's post, doesn't mean i like the reality of it, but i have to agree with it.

It's what happens when you have too many rules/laws, i remember a day when ebay was made up almost entirely of a community of folks only interested in "playing nice", back in those days one registered member had the right and ability to contact via email any other registered member, you could have simply emailed the high bidder and discussed your interest and intent just like real men in an honest world should be able to do.

Don't knock living in the past...................... it was a nice place.

 

[Blue Shadow]

If the bay was like real auctions, sniping would not work. As long as new, higher bids are arriving, the auction stays open. This would be nice for those that are watching and waiting but it would make the operation a bit more difficult for the bidders that are wanting to put in late bids.

I like the idea of determining exactly how much an item is worth to you and bidding or sniping that amount. If you win you will be paying the items value to you or less plus shipping. If you lose someone wanted it more than you did and in your mind you can now think he overpaid. That way you are happy and you don't need to care about the buyer or seller. I never feel bad placing my high bid for something only to find out that an earlier lower bidder had a higher bid max causing him to pay a lot more for an item that has few bidders. That is what this ebay thing is for, selling stuff to people that want it at a price you want to sell it for or more.

As far a pining, the topic of this thread, if you are a legitimate bidder for the item, bidding a price below what you want the unit for but much higher than the incremental bids needed will lower the number of bids one needs to use to ping and give an idea that as stated someone is new to ebay.

 

[JohnG]

If the bay was like real auctions, sniping would not work. As long as new, higher bids are arriving, the auction stays open. This would be nice for those that are watching and waiting but it would make the operation a bit more difficult for the bidders that are wanting to put in late bids.

There are many types of auctions. Sniping does work in sealed bid auctions, of which eBay is an electronic equivalent. Sniping does not have the same effectiveness for English auctions (the "going, going, gone" type) since bidding remains open until no more bids are made. Sniping in an English auction sometimes decreases the chance of a bidding war, but may also trigger one.

I like the idea of determining exactly how much an item is worth to you and bidding or sniping that amount. If you win you will be paying the items value to you or less plus shipping. If you lose someone wanted it more than you did and in your mind you can now think he overpaid. That way you are happy and you don't need to care about the buyer or seller. I never feel bad placing my high bid for something only to find out that an earlier lower bidder had a higher bid max causing him to pay a lot more for an item that has few bidders. That is what this ebay thing is for, selling stuff to people that want it at a price you want to sell it for or more.

Exactly and I totally agree. Except the part about bidding or sniping, since technically sniping is bidding.

As far a pining, the topic of this thread, if you are a legitimate bidder for the item, bidding a price below what you want the unit for but much higher than the incremental bids needed will lower the number of bids one needs to use to ping and give an idea that as stated someone is new to ebay.

Then why not just bid what you want the unit for at the most appropriate time?

 

[RSL'67]

[Deleted]

Ha!

 

[Fisherdude]

Alright, gents.

There have been several threads lately about these identical topics. I'm pretty sure we've beaten this one to death.

You can bid any way you want. If you place a bid WITHOUT INTENDING TO PAY, that's different. That's unethical and a violation of eBay's bidding procedures, but that's not what we're discussing here.

Sniping is a perfect example of a bidding practice that is perfectly acceptable within eBay's bidding procedures, and works quite well within eBay's bidding procedures. You can like it and use it, or you can dislike it and not use it, but since it's perfectly acceptable, please refrain from insulting bidders who use it.

As far as "pinging" goes, I've never heard it referred to by that name. It's more commonly referred to as "bidding". If we use a regular auction as an example, (yes, I know that eBay isn't a "regular" auction, but it's close enough for this example), a bidder bids $100. The auctioneer says: "Do I hear $150?". A different bidder bids $150. "Do I hear $175?". First bidder says: "$175!". And it continues until one of them stops. When the bidder stops, then you now know how much he was willing to bid. If he wants, he can wait and see what else happens, and if he wants to get back in and beat the current bid, he can do so.

In the "pinging" example, a bidder posts a proxy bid of a certain amount. Another bidder bids above the current bid, and is outbid the the first bidder's proxy. So the second bidder bids again, and is outbid by the first bidder's bid, again. The second bidder continues to bid until the first bidder's proxy is exceeded, and then the second bidder is the high bidder. As above, the second bidder now knows how much the first bidder was willing to pay. As above, the first bidder can simply wait and watch to see what happens, and if he wishes, he can bid again by bidding higher than the current bid. This continues until the auction is over. There is nothing wrong with continuing to bid on an auction until you are the high bidder. That's how bidding works, and that's how you win. You keep bidding until you're the high bidder.

Again, you can bid any way you want, as long as you follow the rules. You can post a bid that just beats the current bid, or you can post a bid amount that is the max you're willing to pay (your "proxy" bid), or you can wait and bid anytime you want, or you can wait until the end and bid by clicking your mouse, or you can wait until the end and place your bid by using a sniping service or sniping programs installed on your own computer.

When you follow the rules exactly, then you can't possibly be "cheating".