EL34 Integrated Amp Entry

[BigRiver]

As the title suggests I am look for an EL34 based integrated amp.

I'm Currently running a rebuilt Sherwood S5000 (7189 - EL84 style) integrated with Forte iv's.

I like to stream (40%) through the Modwright Cambridge Audio CNXV2 as well as listen to cd's (30%) through the CXC transport in to the CXN. I also listen to LP's (30%).

I like the sound of the Sherwood and the EL84 tube in general but would like to try something else and have settled on EL34. The Sherwood can be a little smeared in the lower mids, and although the 7189's have punch I think that the Sherwood can be a little sluggish and would like to try a newer design. PP or SET design.

Like to keep it around 2K topping out at 3K, new or used, looking for best $$ to performance. I like the idea of tube rolling and as such the models that allow KT's are of particular interest as well but not necessary.

Thanks!

 

[Andyman]

There's lots of Dynaco ST70s out there from ratty to restored stock to hot rodded, like Kegger's avatar amp I now have. They are priced well under $2K and have good resale if you opt to move on.

Actually looking at Keg's avatar it appears he had the stock Dynaco iron on it for that pic. It now sports Acrosound TO-300 iron.

 

[BigRiver]

There's lots of Dynaco ST70s out there from ratty to restored stock to hot rodded, like Kegger's avatar amp I now have. They are priced well under $2K and have good resale if you opt to move on.

Actually looking at Keg's avatar it appears he had the stock Dynaco iron on it for that pic. It now sports Acrosound TO-300 iron.

Thanks, but for this set up I really need to go with an integrated, separates just won't work. This set up needs to be clean and pretty easy to use for multiple people. Although I have heard the Dynaco and with the right mods it can be amazing for the price point!

 

[Andyman]

Sorry, my mistake. The ST70 replaced my Almarro integrated and I didn't think it through as I used a preamp with the Almarro for it's phono stage.
There's a bunch of Chi-Fi stuff out there. I had a Yaqin preamp that was pretty nice and the Yaqin EL34 amps (MC-13S and MC-10L) seem to get decent reviews too.

 

[robert_kc]

I own more than 2 dozen vintage tube amps - all restored and in-service. Off the top of my head - IIRC - my EL34/6CA7 integrated amps include Scott 272, and Fisher X-1000. Both are capable of enjoyable sound quality.

 

[FlaCharlie]

As the title suggests I am look for an EL34 based integrated amp.

I'm Currently running a rebuilt Sherwood S5000 (7189 - EL84 style) integrated with Forte iv's.

I like to stream (40%) through the Modwright Cambridge Audio CNXV2 as well as listen to cd's (30%) through the CXC transport in to the CXN. I also listen to LP's (30%).

I like the sound of the Sherwood and the EL84 tube in general but would like to try something else and have settled on EL34. The Sherwood can be a little smeared in the lower mids, and although the 7189's have punch I think that the Sherwood can be a little sluggish and would like to try a newer design. PP or SET design.

Like to keep it around 2K topping out at 3K, new or used, looking for best $$ to performance. I like the idea of tube rolling and as such the models that allow KT's are of particular interest as well but not necessary.

Thanks!

Just curious, but has your Sherwood S-5000 been properly restored?

I ask because I've never heard anyone describe it, or any of the vintage Sherwoods, as smeared in the lower mids or sluggish in any way. All of the Sherwoods I have, including that same S-5000, are exceptionally solid in the bass region and sound very fast and dynamic.

Since you listen to vinyl, are you looking for an integrated that has its own phono stage or do you have an external phono pre that you can use?

If you're willing to use an external phono pre you'll have a lot more options. Most power amps can be driven to full power output by a streamer or CD player without any additional gain stage. I'm not familiar with the Modwright but if it has a variable output you could run it directly into a power amp, like the Dynaco ST-70 or similar, without the need for a separate preamp.

I have a DAC with a variable output and it works fine plugged straight in to stand alone power amps including my Pilot SA-260, which is a PP EL34.

 

[BigRiver]

Just curious, but has your Sherwood S-5000 been properly restored?

I ask because I've never heard anyone describe it, or any of the vintage Sherwoods, as smeared in the lower mids or sluggish in any way. All of the Sherwoods I have, including that same S-5000, are exceptionally solid in the bass region and sound very fast and dynamic.

Since you listen to vinyl, are you looking for an integrated that has its own phono stage or do you have an external phono pre that you can use?

If you're willing to use an external phono pre you'll have a lot more options. Most power amps can be driven to full power output by a streamer or CD player without any additional gain stage. I'm not familiar with the Modwright but if it has a variable output you could run it directly into a power amp, like the Dynaco ST-70 or similar, without the need for a separate preamp.

I have a DAC with a variable output and it works fine plugged straight in to stand alone power amps including my Pilot SA-260, which is a PP EL34.

Thank for this input!

As far as I can tell the Sherwood has been properly restored. I bought it from someone whom had aea audio restore it along with the matching tuner to their platinum restoration and it came with documentation of this service. In addition it was sent back to them on purchase for a once over where it was tested, a couple solder joints were touched up and the output tubes re-biased.

I don't want anyone to think it does not sound good, it does. Better than any solid state receivers, amps or integrateds (minus the First Watt) that I have had. It is solid and can THUNDER in the bass region, I often have to turn the bass down, and often I have to turn it down far, this amp absolutely shakes the Forte iv's down low. It is quite punchy, though to me it does not sound quick (in relation to some other's that I have heard). And likely smeared is the wrong descriptor. I think less articulate in the mid bass with less separation would be more accurate, especially when things get a little complicated. This is in relation to some other more modern tube amps I have recently heard. In addition since the forte's are really sensitive I would like to find something with a lower noise floor.

Although now as I read this while I type it, maybe I need to replace the input tubes and maybe the not so great Sovtek rectifier and see if things improve. It came with a front end full of Telefunken and I am not really looking forward to that re-investment.

I am willing to use an external phono stage if needed, however I also want to keep things as simple as possible for whole house use. The Modwright can be run with or without its "digital" pre-amp, which is basically variable out.

 

[BigRiver]

Sorry, my mistake. The ST70 replaced my Almarro integrated and I didn't think it through as I used a preamp with the Almarro for it's phono stage.
There's a bunch of Chi-Fi stuff out there. I had a Yaqin preamp that was pretty nice and the Yaqin EL34 amps (MC-13S and MC-10L) seem to get decent reviews too.

I have thought about the Line Magnetic LM-34IA, or maybe the LM-211IA.

Anyone have any thoughts or experience with either of these>

 

[Zenit55]

Scott 210 E and F versions use EL34s and are integrated amps. HH Scott 209 is the 210 without their noise reduction circuit, integrated as well. Both would be monoblocks.

Knight KN780 I think was another EL34 integrated that I came across. This one was stereo.

 

[Tinkerbelle]

Scott 210 E and F versions use EL34s and are integrated amps. HH Scott 209 is the 210 without their noise reduction circuit, integrated as well. Both would be monoblocks.

Knight KN780 I think was another EL34 integrated that I came across. This one was stereo.

Yes, the Knight KN-780 is EL34 as is also the KN-775.

 

[robert_kc]

Scott 210 E and F versions use EL34s and are integrated amps. HH Scott 209 is the 210 without their noise reduction circuit, integrated as well. Both would be monoblocks.

Knight KN780 I think was another EL34 integrated that I came across. This one was stereo.

My biggest regret in collecting vintage hi-fi was selling my mint-condition late 1950’s mono HH Scott 210F tube amplifier, equipped with original Amperex Bugle Boy, Made in Holland, EL34 / 6CA7.

Someone in NYC bought it. I wish I could buy it back ...

 

[zackthedog]

Thank for this input!

As far as I can tell the Sherwood has been properly restored. I bought it from someone whom had aea audio restore it along with the matching tuner to their platinum restoration and it came with documentation of this service. In addition it was sent back to them on purchase for a once over where it was tested, a couple solder joints were touched up and the output tubes re-biased.

I don't want anyone to think it does not sound good, it does. Better than any solid state receivers, amps or integrateds (minus the First Watt) that I have had. It is solid and can THUNDER in the bass region, I often have to turn the bass down, and often I have to turn it down far, this amp absolutely shakes the Forte iv's down low. It is quite punchy, though to me it does not sound quick (in relation to some other's that I have heard). And likely smeared is the wrong descriptor. I think less articulate in the mid bass with less separation would be more accurate, especially when things get a little complicated. This is in relation to some other more modern tube amps I have recently heard. In addition since the forte's are really sensitive I would like to find something with a lower noise floor.

Although now as I read this while I type it, maybe I need to replace the input tubes and maybe the not so great Sovtek rectifier and see if things improve. It came with a front end full of Telefunken and I am not really looking forward to that re-investment.

I am willing to use an external phono stage if needed, however I also want to keep things as simple as possible for whole house use. The Modwright can be run with or without its "digital" pre-amp, which is basically variable out.

If I may suggest--try the Gold Lion 12AX7. (They're not cheap, but far cheaper than Tele's.) You might find that the soft midrange gets a lot tighter and punchier. I had old Tele's in my DAC (which is all-tube output). They tested well enough, but didn't run all that strong in the circuit, and while there was some "magic" in classical and soft jazz, I also found that more demanding jazz and pop tracks lacked "snap," especially in the bass. I was thinking of a buying another DAC! After a couple weeks of break-in, the Gold Lions are much more enjoyable across a wide range of music. I also recently cleaned up a Scott 340 receiver and replaced the worn Tele's with the Gold Lions, with the same effect. Just my .02.

 

[BigRiver]

If I may suggest--try the Gold Lion 12AX7. (They're not cheap, but far cheaper than Tele's.) You might find that the soft midrange gets a lot tighter and punchier. I had old Tele's in my DAC (which is all-tube output). They tested well enough, but didn't run all that strong in the circuit, and while there was some "magic" in classical and soft jazz, I also found that more demanding jazz and pop tracks lacked "snap," especially in the bass. I was thinking of a buying another DAC! After a couple weeks of break-in, the Gold Lions are much more enjoyable across a wide range of music. I also recently cleaned up a Scott 340 receiver and replaced the worn Tele's with the Gold Lions, with the same effect. Just my .02.

Thanks, I'll add those to the list of new production tubes to try out. Maybe I can clear up some noise and add a little punch with these.

 

[Andyman]

Thanks, I'll add those to the list of new production tubes to try out. Maybe I can clear up some noise and add a little punch with these.

That may be a very good idea. Keg used to tell me all the time that he felt drivers had a bigger impact on the sonics than the power tubes. If you have Telefunkens in there already, you have some nice tubes and most replacements would likely cost less than the Teles. I'm not tech enough to tell you which 12AX7s are the preamp drivers, but you may only need to roll 2. certainly not all 5 as 2 are most likely in the phono stage.

Here's a schematic for those more adept at this than I.

http://www.acousticpsychos.com/Files/Sherwood/s5000.gif

 

[PastorTube]

Just a thought. If you are inclined electrically you could get a ST70 and place a volume control on the input Which makes it an integrated. Add a rotary switch and extra input jacks and you have a integrated with multiple inputs. Another idea is to build a preamp. I built and modified the “4s universal preamp”. You can use 12a*7 tubes. Where * X, T, or U type tubes depending on the gain you want. Building it would cost you not much more than $150 from what I remember. Here is a link https://diyaudioprojects.com/Tubes/Universal-Tube-Preamplifier/

Yes both of these options would still require a separate phono preamp if you need phono.

 

[BigRiver]

That may be a very good idea. Keg used to tell me all the time that he felt drivers had a bigger impact on the sonics than the power tubes. If you have Telefunkens in there already, you have some nice tubes and most replacements would likely cost less than the Teles. I'm not tech enough to tell you which 12AX7s are the preamp drivers, but you may only need to roll 2. certainly not all 5 as 2 are most likely in the phono stage.

Here's a schematic for those more adept at this than I.

http://www.acousticpsychos.com/Files/Sherwood/s5000.gif

I think I have a handle on what small tubes are designated to what part of the circuit. I think I'll start there. I will probably try the Gold Lions and then give Brent a call if needed.

 

[BigRiver]

Just a thought. If you are inclined electrically you could get a ST70 and place a volume control on the input Which makes it an integrated. Add a rotary switch and extra input jacks and you have a integrated with multiple inputs. Another idea is to build a preamp. I built and modified the “4s universal preamp”. You can use 12a*7 tubes. Where * X, T, or U type tubes depending on the gain you want. Building it would cost you not much more than $150 from what I remember. Here is a link https://diyaudioprojects.com/Tubes/Universal-Tube-Preamplifier/

Yes both of these options would still require a separate phono preamp if you need phono.

Mayhaps someday when time permits; it would be cool to run something home built, but I'm not there yet.

 

[Lavane]

If you don't need or use tone controls, the Rogue Audio cronos

Just a thought. If you are inclined electrically you could get a ST70 and place a volume control on the input Which makes it an integrated. Add a rotary switch and extra input jacks and you have a integrated with multiple inputs. Another idea is to build a preamp. I built and modified the “4s universal preamp”. You can use 12a*7 tubes. Where * X, T, or U type tubes depending on the gain you want. Building it would cost you not much more than $150 from what I remember. Here is a link https://diyaudioprojects.com/Tubes/Universal-Tube-Preamplifier/

Yes both of these options would still require a separate phono preamp if you need phono.

I added a volume control to my ST-70 in place of the stereo/mono switch.
I used the amp with an input selector for awhile. If you have a turntable then a stand alone phono preamp would be needed.

 

[trainbuftony]

Integrated EL34 stereo amps get real heavy, it's at that power level that we start splitting things up into monoblocks. The iron required to get good sound (output transformers) plus the power transformer to run it all, starts pushing the 70-80 pound mark. More than a lot of folks are willing to carry or move.
That being said, my friend has a cronus magnum by Rogue audio. He only has nice things to say about it. I'm not sure what the price is these days, but you should save money until you can get one. (I think it's a few hundo past you're stated budget)
I'd forget about single ended amps.
Se el34 is going to put out less power and more distortion than a push pull 6bq6. 7 days a week and twice on Sunday
Single ended is a step backwards from where you're at.

 

[Selmerdave]

Bell 6060 might be near the top of the list?