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ELAC Miracord TT -share all about 'em

davidguilbault said:
Dual 1219 and Elac 50. I like 'em both.

TwoTurntable.jpg
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I love that case with the hinged dustcover on the 1219! So much more practical than the standard covers, that all split in the back.

With the two models sitting side-by-side, it is amazing to see how much stockier the tonearm on the Miracord is. The cartridge end on the Miracord is about 2 1/2 times the size of the one on the Dual ! ! ! ! Do I detect steroid use?

Do you have any motor issues with the straight 50 model? Can you or others clarify more of the differences between the Miracord 50, 50H, and 50HII?
 
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I have owned five elac models and several duals, performance is about the same,
but the miracords are better built and hold up better.
The arm may look more massive, but it is not, unless you go back to the 10H, that
was a massive arm. The Miracords had better head shells also, at least compared to
the 10 series duals.
All I have ever seen or used had damped cuing, maybe your cylinder is out of fluid,
also, they should not have hum problems.
The 770H was the top of the line, the 50H was the previous top of the line.
My father has a 45, has used it since 1971 and still uses it. It is slightly below
the 50H, doesn't have strobe/variable speed and doesn't have the built in overhang
guage.
 
I've got 3. 2 10 "F" (FISHER) and a 50H. The 10's came with consoles and the 50 was bought separately. Although they are massive, the arms are quite nimble, if you will, and will take about any cartridge and play them well.

The motors are some of the best I've seen and used on a TT short of a 301. Ton's of Torque to get that 7-8LB platter up to speed. My 50H had a thump on the idler(from sitting on the motor spindle) which I took and soaked in straight DAWN overnight. Then scuffed it with the bench grinder (using a drill bit fitted to the hole), letting the grinder spin it up, with the wheel turned about 30* for a few seconds. Cleaned the edge up and it's been working for 2 years like that.

The mechanism is infinately easier to work on than a DUAL, and is quieter to boot. It's massive like the DUAL, but about 1/3 as complicated. The original grease is a better quality and doesn't harden up AS MUCH as the stuff on the Duals, but still needs to be replaced. The cartridge adjustment should have been a mandatory item on all makes/models. I dont care for the motor switch engagement slide. the switch is flimsy. Good size contacts but the spring metal to flip the contact back and forth is undersized. A 2amp micro-switch, and some JB Weld will fix that.

All in all these ELAC Miracords are equal or somewhat better than their DUAL Cousins. Other than cleaning and 1 switch replacement on a 10F I've done absolutely nothing to them, but my DUAL's are constantly on the bench with mechanism problems. They weren't marketed as heavily as the DUALS, so you don't tend to see them as often. Mainly Realistic, and FISHER Consoles up to 1966 for OEMS that I've seen.

The Plinth is the same on all models up to the 50H which has the "remote" speed window at the control panel which is activated by an arm from the handle on the left. This will require you to ease out the plinth 3/16 toward the front along the right front edge to clear the mechanism for the speed wheel and gear.

Sometimes I wonder why they designed this, when using as a changer, that the long spindle has to be removed to remove the LP. It's a PITA, but the only operational PITA I have with the ELAC's.

Too bad about parts, as the only way to get them is canibalization. Most of the mechanicals will interchange between the 10 (F&H) + 50H, with minor variations. The 40-45 models will also fall in here. IDLER WHEELS can be redone by Terry Witt. LACK OF MANUALS in Engish is a definate -. But pictures work in all languages, so it's a wash.

My nod goes to the MIRACORDS. Once you get one set up right, it'll stay that way for a long time, longer than most DUAL's.

Larry
 
There is one major thing wrong with a good Miracord, I don't own one presently. I need a changer for gimpy days. And in my opinion, they're better built than a Dual 1200 family, suffer less problems with cueing and automation, and heavier platter and motor. In short, underrated in many circles.
 
bangsezmax said:
I like the 50H. Very solid machines, a lot like the Dual 1219/1229, but a touch heavier duty it seems. Nice motors! The one downside that I've notice with it is hum. It's not a grounding thing because messing with the grounding seems to make no difference. It seems to be a shielding thing. Anyone have any experience like that with theirs?
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This isn't an uncommon thing with a number of TTs including Duals from my experiences on the bench in the 70s. The main issue was the mating of the cartridge carrier into the tonearm. Metal contacts were easily corroded and oxidized and the mating of the contacts could easily be mis-aligned.

Add to this, many of the upper end TTs used a muting mechanism to short out the cart leads while the tone arm is being positioned and placed on the LP.

Both of these facilities needed to be cleaned and the wiring well-dressed in order to ensure no hum is induced. Lastly, most of these TTs terminated the connections under the plinth and then used regular RCA patch cables. These, if original, will likely have increased capacitance due to the breakdown of the insulation between the coaxial cable. Should be replaced and the RCA contacts cleaned.

So, all the above implies that a good going over of both the mechanical and electrical touchpoints on these nice TTs be done. Once that's done, then re-evaluate reports you get today from folks who have used them.

Frankly, when well lubed and cleaned, both the Dual, Elac, Miracord, and PE TTs are graceful in automatic mode, are reliable as reported here, and remain a joy of excellent German engineering (yes, I've owned Benz and BMWs, too!).

Cheers,

David
 
I own an Elac 50H-II and a couple of Dual 1219s and a couple of other Duals. I'd agree with what has been posted here: the Elac is slightly better-built, and less hassle to restore and maintain.

I might be a bit biased, as my Elac came out of a little-used console that kept it well-protected from adverse influences; it looked and looks almost brand new, whereas my Duals had been in normal and well-used plinths that left them more exposed to degenerative influences, and in need of much greater restoration.

Still, the Elac just seems a bit beefier and better in design and execution. (I do still want to try building a more massive plinth for the Elac, along the lines of the typical Lenco DIYs... but haven't got around to it yet.)
 
Can some of you shed more light on the cartridge holders Miracord turntables use? Which models use the same cartridge holder? How hard is it to find spare Miracord cartridge holders? Do they need regular anti-corrosion maintenance like Dual cartridge holders sometimes need? If more Duals than Miracords (in any of their brandings) were sold in the USA, are dependable sources for Miracord parts (like cartridge holders) correspondingly fewer?

Also, someone mentioned something about cartridge overhang/alignment being easier on the 50 models than lower number Miracords. Could someone explain that feature more fully?
 
dshoaf said:
This isn't an uncommon thing with a number of TTs including Duals from my experiences on the bench in the 70s. The main issue was the mating of the cartridge carrier into the tonearm. Metal contacts were easily corroded and oxidized and the mating of the contacts could easily be mis-aligned.

Add to this, many of the upper end TTs used a muting mechanism to short out the cart leads while the tone arm is being positioned and placed on the LP.
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:thmbsp:
Hum gone after a little Deoxit. Thanks!
 
illinoisteve said:
Can some of you shed more light on the cartridge holders Miracord turntables use? Which models use the same cartridge holder? How hard is it to find spare Miracord cartridge holders? Do they need regular anti-corrosion maintenance like Dual cartridge holders sometimes need? If more Duals than Miracords (in any of their brandings) were sold in the USA, are dependable sources for Miracord parts (like cartridge holders) correspondingly fewer?

Also, someone mentioned something about cartridge overhang/alignment being easier on the 50 models than lower number Miracords. Could someone explain that feature more fully?
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A really cool feature. On the 50s and some other models, there's a little brush sitting in the way of the cartridge as it is swung over to an LP - a very light brush to knock off lint. That brush come off.

When you pull it, you'll find a point on the end of the pole that it sits on. That's your overhang adjustment!

What you do is to adjust the cartridge's forward/backward so that the stylus tip is directly over the point. Voila! You have overhang adjusted.

As for what cartridge carriers worked with what models, I used to have a list some 40 years ago - multiplay spindles and 45 adapters, too. Alas, lost in a house fire some 16 years ago. That would be quite the research project for someone to reconstruct that list although I'll bet someone already has and we don't know it.

I'd recommend regular maintenance a la Duals, too.

As for why more Dual sold, the answer is that Benjamin, the US distributor, didn't seem to be able to get their list of dealers as long as United Audio. Dual's importer/distributor here in the US, United Audio, was all over the place, big ads in the trade magazines and generally more aggressive in pricing, dealer packages of benefits (advertising co-op $$, discounts for selling above quotas, etc) for working with them. Benjamin seemed to be far more laid back and less concerned about market share - and they lost it, too. Not for poor product but for poor awareness.

Cheers,

David
 
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Duals (at least the 1200 series) I believe had a little clear plastic gizmo that you could slide over the cartridge-holder-tonearm end that indicated where the stylus overhang point was to go. I'm not sure if these came with all the TTs or were an accessory, but they only rarely stay with the TTs they became mated with. Something that is part of the holder would be better.
 
Yes, agree with Marketing presence being the main reason why Miracords sold in lesser numbers here. And the fact that only the higher end dealers as a rule sold them. I love their changers, among my very favorites ever made.
 
KentTeffeteller said:
Yes, agree with Marketing presence being the main reason why Miracords sold in lesser numbers here. And the fact that only the higher end dealers as a rule sold them. I love their changers, among my very favorites ever made.
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So would you say that at dealers that carried a wide spectrum of audio equipment dual might be the mid-level well-built changer, but at those "only high-end dealers" the Miracord might be the lower end of the gear they sold as often the Dual, in either case covering the needs of customers prefering a changer? What would have usually been the next step up from these two? Lencos? Empires? Others?

I am getting very curious about Miracords. They have a lot of the same appeal for me that a 1200-series Dual does, though they are different, a bit beefier in appearance, but still sleek in their own way. If I had one, I would take comfort that maintenance was similar to what I was used to (or aware of) as a Dual owner. I might worry that I couldn't get a part, however, if I needed one, perhaps as much or more than if I had a 1000-series Dual.

Since they appear to be rarer than Duals, the opportunities to stumble on one in a thrift shop or charity sale would not be common. They appear on ebay apparently from time to time. Currently there is one (a 50-something model I think) for about $300, and another one with a starting bid of $69. I checked the latter seller's feedback and saw no indication that he has ever packed a turntable for shipment, and so might need to be educated. Proper packing for a very heavy-plattered turntable would probably increase the shipping cost currently posted.

Have other's watched some of the videos of Miracords linked in an earlier post of mine? It takes me about 45 minutes to download a minute or so of video. It would be helpful if others who can watch the videos more easily would recommend a few of them as being particularly good examples of a particular Miracord model in action.

I hope others with experience of Miracord turntables will add postings about the models they know, their features and issues, as well as more about the history of these turntables or their place among other kinds of audio equipment.
 
I lost out on the 50h I was hoping to barter for, he already got rid of it. :( I do want to try one of these as my luck with duals is not great. 2 1009's 2 1219's and a 1229 and none want to work right. Hope a 50h shows eventually....
 
armadjustmentsmiracord620-630.jpg


I was exploring the service manuals for Miracords downloadable from vinylengine and worked my way up the model numbers to the 620 and 630 manual. While the cartridge end of the tonearm looks the same as what is on a Miracord 50/50H, the arm pivot and counterweight end looks as pictured above.

I wonder if that is actually a simpler mechanism or one that is wa-a-a-ay more complicated. Does anyone have any knowledge or experience of how that setup works and how dependable it is?
 
Amcrebelfan said:
I lost out on the 50h I was hoping to barter for, he already got rid of it. :( I do want to try one of these as my luck with duals is not great. 2 1009's 2 1219's and a 1229 and none want to work right. Hope a 50h shows eventually....
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Sorry you're not local -- I'd fix your Duals for ya. Just refurbed a 1229 that had been sitting in a shed for ages. Had to jury rig a speed selector knob because someone snapped the old one off. Works great now. Also recently rebuilt a 1219 where the plastic stepped speed control had been cracked apart. Managed to get it back together with epoxy. It's a great feeling seeing them play records again.

Two years ago, there's no way I could've tackled either of those. That's what experience and perseverance will do. With Duals, so long as nothing plastic breaks on them, it's really just lube and learning the mechanism. And even when the plastic stuff breaks, they can still be jury-rigged to work.

That said, now that I've gotten my 50H hum free :banana:, I've been listening to it all day. Mounted a Stanton 681 on it and it has some slammin' bass response! Sweet table. It's going to replace my trusty old 1229 as the idler drive of choice in my system.
 
Duals were more widely advertised and distributed back in the day.
Every discount "Stereo Warehouse" offered them, they were even sold in the better
department stores. Duals (along with Garrards) were also widely sold in package deals, receiver, TT, Speakers.

The 620 and 630 you mention above were the budget Miracords, still a decent table,
but much lower cost, $89.00 as compared to $149.00 and $179.00 for the top models.
 
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