Electric Bikes

[Wildcat]

Yup ... the White Pine runs right by my house.

Excellent! And convenient. That and a couple of the Fred Meijer trails out there are on my bucket list.

I read on Trail Link that they were converting the unpaved or loose gravel portions of the White Pine Trail to crushed limestone, beyond the asphalt paved sections. One of my favorite trails locally (the Paint Creek Trail) is about ten miles of crushed limestone along one of Michigan Central's old rail lines, and it's not an unpleasant trip at all since it is well kept. Not that much harder to travel on than asphalt, and only a gentle incline as you head west to Lake Orion; heading back to Rochester is of course a bit more fun. The nicer trails I have been on have preserved some of the old rail features, or put up commemorative markers (like they did on the Paint Creek).

So yeah, now I'm itching for the warmer weather.

 

[Jeffery]

Here's a recumbent build I followed years ago, glad to see the site is still active. He ended up capable of about 10X the 750W limit, but never really uses or needs that kind of power, even pulling a trailer.

Read all the way down, he made many modifications from where he started, the good stuff is page 2.

http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/shumaker/e-cumbent2.htm

A video of a 28KW electric bike he built, pulls the front wheel on demand even at high speed.

Check his other vids, he has some killer stuff.

 

[sKiZo]

Neat! Certainly not your backyard build. Left me wondering what's happened since though ... last update was the tail end of 2008.

PS ... did some residential driving a couple days back and real happy with how well the RadRover handled around town. I do want to get the Mr. Tuffy tube liners installed before I do too much of that as fat bike tires have a thinner carcass and are more prone to becoming flat bike tires. I also found a helmet I think I can live with - most bike helmets are just too dang cute for my liking. ;-}

I'm a man - and I can wear one - if I have to - I guess ...
Red Green

 

[Jeffery]

Neat! Certainly not your backyard build. Left me wondering what's happened since though ... last update was the tail end of 2008.

The video was August of 2016, so he's still building. He has a electric MotoPed Pro and a mountain bike in his vid collection.

 

[Pio1980]

Are the controllers custom made or off the shelf modules on most of these bikes, including the home-builts?

 

[sKiZo]

Mayhaps we have an ebike insider lurking here that can give a definitive answer, but ... the typical "brain" looks to be pretty much a stock item, rebadged for a particular brand.

What's interesting is, all the controllers seem to all have the same capabilities and features. Voltages and limits are set with a ROM chip programmed for a specific build. Stuff like regenerative braking all depends on whether a vendor decides to implement it or not. Mine doesn't have that as an option, but it does have a twist throttle that can be bypassed, and a lot of eBikes don't have that installed.

PS ... I do know that a couple of the Rad bikes DO have regenerative braking. Be interesting to find out if they use the same controller with different programming ... they look suspiciously alike, they do. Instrumentation and controls are identical. Same can't be said about the hub motors, which would be where that particular magic happens.

 

[sKiZo]

By the way ... what's everyone using for bike locks? I know they're all pretty much a crapshoot when it comes to stopping a pro, but I figure it's not a bad idea to be able to head off the opportunist.

Just ordered one of these ...

Cable's long enough to catch a tree or some such as well. It's also got a frame mount for storage. $40 at Amazon ...

 

[Wildcat]

That's the best style of lock--the cables and chains are easily defeated. Cyclists and even former thieves recommend these locks, as they are difficult to defeat.

I plan on getting one later this year. On my "good" bike, I rarely ever ride anywhere that I would need to leave it locked up--it is usually out and back on the trail. But for now I still carry a thick cable lock with combination just for short-term use, until I get a Kryptonite. There is a less expensive version I have been looking at, but I may just spring for the "New York/Fahgettaboudit" version that has the double locking cylinder and an 18mm hardened shaft. Pricey, but if I ever decide to upgrade the bike, might as well be safe. And on this one, you need to buy the cable separately.



It is made for use around the frame, and the cable to secure one (or both) wheels. As I've seen it described, secure the most expensive part of the bike (the frame) followed by the second (the rear wheel) then the third (front wheel). And, to buy this type of lock so that it fits snugly, giving little room for thieves to work on trying to defeat it. If anything, they'll see our locks and go find an easier target.

 

[Jeffery]

Are the controllers custom made or off the shelf modules on most of these bikes, including the home-builts?

The guy I linked to above (Matt Shumaker) uses Castle Creations speed controllers in many of his projects - just regular (albeit high power) controllers designed for RC applications. Many RC speed controllers feature braking, but not regenerative braking. I imagine there are custom controllers designed just for brushless ebikes by now.

 

[Pio1980]

About the motors, brush type vs brushless?

 

[Jeffery]

About the motors, brush type vs brushless?

Depends, really. Brushed motors are a lot cheaper, the controllers are cheaper - basically a rheostat would work - but there are the brushes to deal with. No reason they wouldn't work, but they aren't as efficient as brushless, and when you are powering something with batteries, converting that battery power to heat in a rheostat (as well as a less efficient motor) probably isn't what you want unless low budget is your primary objective.

 

[sKiZo]

Mine's brushless.

Big advantage for efficiency and noise levels, and less maintenance issues. Less heat at load as well, and that helps a lot if you do a lot of hills ... as you'd expect, that works the motor the hardest.

Something else to consider is geared vs gearless. The axle is basically the stator on a gearless setup, so you've got lower efficiency that requires more juice on takeoff. You're also turning a lot more weight, so your brakes have to deal with higher inertia. A geared motor takes more revolutions for distance traveled, but that's not an issue as the motors can spin a whole lot faster than they do. This also improves efficiency and gives you a quicker take off, as the motor can go pretty much instant on without having to deal with the same inertia - gears and levers and all that. Science!

 

[sKiZo]

That's the best style of lock--the cables and chains are easily defeated. Cyclists and even former thieves recommend these locks, as they are difficult to defeat.

It is made for use around the frame, and the cable to secure one (or both) wheels. As I've seen it described, secure the most expensive part of the bike (the frame) followed by the second (the rear wheel) then the third (front wheel). And, to buy this type of lock so that it fits snugly, giving little room for thieves to work on trying to defeat it. If anything, they'll see our locks and go find an easier target.

Yup ... discouragement is a good thing in this case.

Something else I've seen bandied about ... keep any cables as short as possible and tight to the frame to give them little or no room to get a cutter on them. Little trick I've seen is to wrap the cable around frame members where possible. Still leaves a pretty decent section open between the front wheel and frame though, but if you twist that as well, there's less chance of cutting it. That's also where a flexible cable scores additional points.

I'd think protecting the front wheel would be a big thing, especially if it's a quick connect. Can't imagine why I'd want to remove the wheel while on the road, and if I do travel, it'd be on an outside rack anyway, so I'm not worried about fitting it inside. I'll drip an email to Rad and see if they can recommend a regular axle mount. I know the earlier versions of the bike had that as standard.

 

[sKiZo]

Worth mentioning, even though this IS an electric bike, it has gears, and the normal problems associated with them. This one ain't been quite "right" since I got it, derailing and missing gear changes every now and then. Found this video on YouTube that takes the mystery right out of adjusting it properly. Different brand, but they're all apparently more or less the same. Shifting is reliable and smooth as glass now, and I know what all needs doing next time around as well.

PS ... can't say I blame Rad for the gearing problems ... the bike obviously got bounced around some in shipment. They're not delicate, but not bulletproof either. In this case, the chain was actually rubbing on the tire a bit in low gear, so I tweaked the derailleur arm out a bit prior to doing the adjustments. That also took care of some chatter on the idler gear. All's swell that ends well, right?

 

[Wildcat]

The shifter cables can also stretch when they are new, so an adjustment is not out of the ordinary. On the Giant Sedona we have here, it went out of adjustment only a couple of weeks after picking it up. I think I also tweaked my daughter's Specialized when I restored it. They are not overly complex once you see how they are adjusted.

I did have a bit of an issue with the crank on my Specialized when it was new, and they did a full adjustment on everything on the bike while I waited, after tightening up the crank hardware. Turns out the crank had this strange "bump" in it even after tightening and they finally just replaced it when I took it for the (free) yearly tune-up. Smooth as buttah now! They also swapped out the pedals for a better version.

 

[BrocLuno]

So I think I'm about to join you'all ... Since I'm a tinkerer, I'll build mine from a kit. Prolly from Grin eBikes in CA ...

The controllers are not all the same. The inexpensive ones are generating a truncated trapezoidal wave which has harmonics as we all know. So the motors sort of buzz and make other noises related to ripples in the power delivery. True sine wave controllers exist, but start at about $400. But they make many motors near dead silent

So the cost of a kit comes down to what you want it to do, and what you want to spend to get it ... $3K TT and $3K cartridge are not out of place here, but $2K for a good kit is too much ??

Ijust bought a used K2 Pro-Flex with Marzocchi front fork (air) and Fox rear shock (air), Race Face crank set, Mavic wheels, etc. for $100. Yeah, it has V brakes. But my build will not exceed 28 MPH becasue it's mostly about trail riding in Parks (multi-use trails) so I have to keep the speed in line with other folks. Too old to yahoo around, and I have motorcycles if I need real speed. But being well past 65, I am not going to ride endless miles to get to the end of the trail, not unaided anyway.

I'm thinking 36v and 350~500 watt rear hub motor. Sine wave controller. Pedal Assist (PAS) with maybe a torque sensing bottom bracket. That is the most responsive to rider peddle input. You need to stand up and crank to climb a short hill, the system can see that and add more power dynamically.

Will not be a cheap build. But most of our audio systems are not either

 

[BrocLuno]

Making progress. The K2 will likely end up with a mid-mount motor. Circa 350 watts. Plenty for a PAS-only bike with a full 8 speeds (what the rear cassette allows).

But, I picked up a Specialized Hard Rock (hardtail) today with a really beefy rear frame and well triangulated drop-outs. So it's a full on candidate for rear hub system

Pics to follow on both. The specialized is getting a new rear derailleur cable and a new chain before I go further. Pick up friday

 

[Tom Brennan]

My wife and I had a pair of Treks with Tongsheng mid drive kits. Pedal assist, no throttles. Just the thing for the Mission Reach of the San Antonio river parkway which has lots of hills. They were stolen one night though, right off the back of our motor coach where they were locked up. The thieves were very adept.

 

[MannyE]

Yeah.

Vintage mopeds start at $200 for one that needs $500 of restoration and $1000 for a mint fully restored one. And they run forever, get 100+ mpg and since they already did all the polluting they were going to do when they were made back in the 70's or 80's they are "cleaner" than a new electric bike. So keep your electric bikes. I'll go find me a Puch.

 

[Djcoolray]

In Asia they have bicycle taxis in a three wheel configuration and the top folds down, the gear assembly of the front sprocket has weights attached for a centrically advanced effect for when being driven at higher speeds. They just take their feet of the pedals and the bicycle taxi continues at the same speed for quite sometime.