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Electro Voice Aristocrat Questions

dorkjackson

dorkjackson

New Member
Sorry if I'm repeating. I looked at a number of the threads addressing this model and I'm at a bit of a loss.

I was given a pair of Aristocrats today. I think that they are the Aristocrat II 111 model, but the two are different. Maybe one is an Aristocrat I Model 108?

They both appear to have the 12 W woofer and T25 tweeter. However, one has screw terminal inputs at the outside bottom of the cabinet with wires that lead to the inside - where I believe the crossover lives (X825 ?) I can't get to the inside. This one also has a pad toward the top of the cabinet to (I believe) control the high freq. Meter shows about 20 ohms across terminals.

The other one appears to have the same speaker arrangement, but the inputs are push terminals on a large metal box on the rear floor of the cab. Is this a crossover? I'm guessing Model X8?
There is no high freq adjustment pad or pot anywhere I can see. Meter shows 60ish ohms across input terminals. Maybe I'm measuring this one wrongly?

I was told they worked by the man who gave them to me who is an old friend.

Thoughts and suggestions appreciated.

DJ
 
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Welcome to AK, Dork.

You've come to the right place for Aristrocrat info. There are lots of owners and fans here, and somebody will be along to answer your question as soon as they see it.

In the meantime, pictures of what you have - and the specific inputs you have questions about - will offer a lot of information.

GeeDeeEmm
 
IMG_1887.JPG Some quick thoughts from an Aristocrat owner. You can easily get inside. The entire front panel containing the frame and grill assembly simply slides down on grooves. Place your speaker on its narrow back and place a pad on top of the front frame. Using a hammer or similar device, tap the top of the frame toward the bottom. The entire assembly should slide down and off the speaker body. I'll try to find a pic in my archives to illustrate. Mine are like the first version you describe above.

Speaker 2 described above sounds like the crossover is mounted at the rear bottom. I haven't seen one configured like that but these came in multiple variations. Can you post a pic?
 
Cabs are on their heads.
 

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I haven't hooked them up yet. I will try them sometime today. I believe they're 16 ohms. Will this affect my amp if I usually drive 8 ohm speakers?
 
Tweeter not working on the one with the exposed crossover on the floor. The other one sounds great. I'll pull the crossover and check the tweeter coil. I think it's the crossover.
 
16 ohm speakers will put less of a load on your amp than 8 ohm ones would so you're fine.

With a typical crossover, checking DC resistance at the rear terminals basically measures the woofer inductor and voice coil only. And that usually measures less than the nominal impedance. So an 8 ohm speaker would typically measure 5-6 ohms. I'm surprised yours are measuring 20. But as long as they're open, you can check the woofers and tweeters separately and see if they match.

Any capacitors in those crossovers are going to be long past their useful life and should be replaced. Very common for a tweeter to be silent due to a failed capacitor in series with it.
 
You are exactly correct. I pulled the crossover and the tweeter measured right. I ran 1KHz through it just to confirm. Pulled apart the crossover and it's potted. See pic. I'm guessing I should just replace both xovers right away? Thanks to all for the help!
 

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macyjrm said:
View attachment 1063885 Some quick thoughts from an Aristocrat owner. You can easily get inside. The entire front panel containing the frame and grill assembly simply slides down on grooves. Place your speaker on its narrow back and place a pad on top of the front frame. Using a hammer or similar device, tap the top of the frame toward the bottom. The entire assembly should slide down and off the speaker body. I'll try to find a pic in my archives to illustrate. Mine are like the first version you describe above.

Speaker 2 described above sounds like the crossover is mounted at the rear bottom. I haven't seen one configured like that but these came in multiple variations. Can you post a pic?
Click to expand...

Thanks! Now that I know the crossover(s) are problematic, how do I get to the xover mounted inside the cab? That speaker sounds like the xover is working fine. Maybe I should listen to it for a while in comparison to the one with the new crossover?

PS: Point of interest: these speakers were bought new by the Schwinn family of bicycle fame and given to the friend who I acquired them from.
 
From your pictures it looks like the front panels are screwed in place, so it seems that would be the place to try first.

Concerning the crossovers, once you have access to both of them, you have a choice of rebuilding them or building new ones. Considering that the inductors don't go bad, I'd reuse them and just replace the caps. Even though the one you have access to is lightly potted, you should be able to chip away at the potting goo and find the caps.

I wonder if a heat gun would be sufficient to melt the potting enough to remove the components? Tox?

(Be sure to check that both xovers have the same components in them.)

GeeDeeEmm
 
gdmoore28 said:
From your pictures it looks like the front panels are screwed in place, so it seems that would be the place to try first.

Concerning the crossovers, once you have access to both of them, you have a choice of rebuilding them or building new ones. Considering that the inductors don't go bad, I'd reuse them and just replace the caps. Even though the one you have access to is lightly potted, you should be able to chip away at the potting goo and find the caps.

I wonder if a heat gun would be sufficient to melt the potting enough to remove the components? Tox?

(Be sure to check that both xovers have the same components in them.)

GeeDeeEmm
Click to expand...


Got the 13.28@50V caps out and saved the coils. I'm assuming I can replace with high quality electrolytics? Polarity on the old caps was either not marked, or was removed with the tar. Does polarity matter in the crossover case?
 
great sounding if they work..have had a few pairs...one pair had wolverines in them...the other sp12 I think...moved on from them rather quick...nice get ...sold those on epay to a guy in texas
 
No, there is no polarity in crossover caps since music is an AC type of signal.

You can replace those with inexpensive nonpolar electrolytics (NPEs) but at 13 uf I would be tempted to use a film cap. Larger but higher quality. Parts Express has both. A lot of people use the 5% tolerance metallized polyprop Dayton caps. If you can't find 13 by itself, you can parallel 6+7, 2x6.5, 10+3, 12+1, etc. If you want to get picky about the .28, you can parallel a .25 there.

As for the potting, a heat gun is a good idea to soften it. You can also put it in a disposable pie pan and heat it for awhile in an OUTDOOR gas grill. Turned very LOW and checked often to make sure it doesn't catch fire. You want a couple hundred degrees inside there I would guess. Don't try it in the house, the smell will mean divorce!
 
PE does not have a 13 in any brand. The Daytons are about $3 each for 6.2 and 6.8, one of each would give you 13 and maintain similar values on the two caps, which some say is a good idea (except when you're using low value bypass caps in parallel, which is a whole different can of worms). The NPE's are also only stocked in 12 and 15 so you'd be doubling up either way.

https://www.parts-express.com/cat/crossover-capacitors/292
 
dorkjackson said:
Cabs are on their heads.
Click to expand...
The pics on the right appear to be the Aristocrat 11. I have one. Yours is the only other one I’ve seen. They had the Electro Voice 12W woofer and the large horn and the large X8 crossover, which was used on their higher models, mounted on the floor in the back. I’ve always understood them to have been factory built only. Mine is marked Aristocrat 11 below the name Electro Voice in the centre of the lower trim piece on the front. They seem to be described often as being in production from 1956 but there is a PDF of a 1951 magazine showing all three models. Pricing for the 11 was very high compared to other versions that I saw. Makes me wonder if many were ever produced. I keep an eye out for another 11 but so far, your reference is the only one I’ve ever seen (been looking for about 6 years).

As mentioned by many, Aristocrats seem to exist in all sorts of configurations so a bit of a pain to match up.

billiamkid
 
Welcome to AK, Bill.

We like pics around here. How about some of your A11? The more indepth, the better. Lots of folks will be searching this post in the future hoping to find info on their own Aristocrats.

GeeDeeEmm
 
I’ll see if I can get a couple of pics in the morning. We’re expecting snow tonight so it might be post cleanup.

billiamkid
 
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