Empire 598 - suspension issues

[AdamAnt316]

Empire 598 - suspension/wiring issues

Hello everyone. I recently acquired an Empire Troubadour 598-III turntable. Unfortunately, there seems to be something wrong with the suspension. The two spring points on the left seem to be fine, but the point near the tonearm seems way too flexible. When the platter is installed, the edge of the platter leans towards the right rear corner, and drags on the baseplate. What could the problem be? Thanks in advance.
-Adam

 

[AdamAnt316]

Some pictures...

Figured I'd bump this thread with some pictures of the TT, showing the issue.

The front:

The platter:

Side view of the platter:

A side view with the outer ring of the platter removed, demonstrating the angle:

I hope these will help; if anyone needs a photo of another angle, please let me know.
-Adam

 

[JohnVF]

According to the owners manual (at vinylengine) there are three butterfly screws to adjust the suspension. I take it you've looked at those to see if there is any latitude to raise the side that is drooping? Other than that, maybe the spring on that side has just lost it's 'spring'.

 

[AdamAnt316]

According to the owners manual (at vinylengine) there are three butterfly screws to adjust the suspension. I take it you've looked at those to see if there is any latitude to raise the side that is drooping? Other than that, maybe the spring on that side has just lost it's 'spring'.

Actually, that might be the key to it. I adjusted the tonearm spring, and the platter seems to be leaning much less now. There might be a bit of rubbing between the belt and the outer ring of the platter, though. Is there a proper way to tune the suspension on these units? Again, thanks.
-Adam

 

[JohnVF]

The owner's manual had a measurement for proper height of the platter assembly, but I don't have it on me. I know it's available at vinylengine.com, and they have the specific one for the 598 vers.III. I don't have a 598 (but I do have a 208). To download from them you just have to register, it was quick and free when I did it.

 

[AdamAnt316]

The owner's manual had a measurement for proper height of the platter assembly, but I don't have it on me. I know it's available at vinylengine.com, and they have the specific one for the 598 vers.III. I don't have a 598 (but I do have a 208). To download from them you just have to register, it was quick and free when I did it.

I did download the 598-III manual from VinylEngine, then discovered that mine is actually a 598-II. Any idea as to what the difference between the two might be? Or the difference between the original and the II?

Further observations: I just discovered that the 5-pin tonearm cable is missing. :tears: Any idea as to a possible source for a replacement? Also, does anyone know how to replace the tonearm lamp? The bulb in mine appears to be out. Once again, thanks!
-Adam

 

[piwonka]

perhaps this is the cable you need.
http://cgi.ebay.com/EMPIRE-598-698-...in_0?hash=item1e57f5bffd&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

 

[AdamAnt316]

perhaps this is the cable you need.
http://cgi.ebay.com/EMPIRE-598-698-...in_0?hash=item1e57f5bffd&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

I saw that; just wish that they wanted less than $70 for it, and that their pictures worked so I could see exactly what I'd be buying. I'm hoping that the person who sold me the 598 can find the cable for it. If not, I'm going to see if an 8-pin DIN connector can be modified to fit the connector in my 598, so I can make a cable to use in the meantime.
-Adam

 

[AdamAnt316]

Update: Discovered, much to my chagrin, that there's no way an 8-pin DIN connector could be made to work, as the Empire's connector is much larger in diameter. :tears: Can someone with a 598 or similar Empire turntable please provide me with a pinout of the connector it uses, as well as the width of the pins? I'd like to rig up a set of temporary RCA jacks to use while I try and determine what to do next. Thanks!
-Adam

 

[piwonka]

i personally would just use some pins that will fit on the arms connector...hook them up with some wire to some rca terminals and use interconnects from those to the phono stage.

 

[AdamAnt316]

i personally would just use some pins that will fit on the arms connector...hook them up with some wire to some rca terminals and use interconnects from those to the phono stage.

Yeah, that was my thought as well. I'd just like to find out the pinout, as well as the size of the pins themselves, from someone who has an Empire 598 with a cable. Would like to make the mod reversible, if possible.
-Adam

 

[ZebraBlvd]

If it was me I would just go ahead and order one from the link piwonka pointed out. Soundbug1 (Mark Voigt) is a knowledgeable and respected guy from what I read hear on AK. If he says that the cable you were looking @ will fit the 598, I think you can pretty much bank on it. This is one area of a TT that I would not want to rig up with something if I planned on buying the right part later. Besides, what you might spend in time and parts would either pay for it or greatly reduce the cost. Just my $0.02.

 

[ekmanning5]

If it was me I would just go ahead and order one from the link piwonka pointed out. Soundbug1 (Mark Voigt) is a knowledgeable and respected guy from what I read hear on AK. If he says that the cable you were looking @ will fit the 598, I think you can pretty much bank on it. This is one area of a TT that I would not want to rig up with something if I planned on buying the right part later. Besides, what you might spend in time and parts would either pay for it or greatly reduce the cost. Just my $0.02.

I purchased one of these cables and to be honest, am not overly thrilled with it. I just can't get it to seat properly. The cable feels like it is going to fall off at any moment. In fact I had to go back today and push it in again after having fought with it for the better part of two hours yesterday.

 

[joelongwood]

I purchased one of these cables and to be honest, am not overly thrilled with it. I just can't get it to seat properly. The cable feels like it is going to fall off at any moment. In fact I had to go back today and push it in again after having fought with it for the better part of two hours yesterday.

That's not good.
I was thinking of buying one of those cables, as my original is kind of screwed up, but now I'm not too sure. :scratch2:

 

[Cornbread]

That's not good.
I was thinking of buying one of those cables, as my original is kind of screwed up, but now I'm not too sure. :scratch2:

I'd give the seller a call and discuss it with him. He lists his number and seems to stand behind his work.

That said, the tonearm on these Empires really is its weak link. They are just too heavy, tweakish, and proprietary. I set mine up with a Hi-Fi News test record and to date, it was the only tonearm that jumped the groove on the fourth "torture track". I got it now to where it will just buzz slightly. Good enough but other tables/arms can get through it pretty silently. The OEM RCA/tonearm cable also gives me problems; when moved it moves the tonearm and will, of course, move the VTA and further effect tracking. It also causes break-up of the signal. So, I don't think it seats well either.

Other than that, it really is a nice table. It's not a table well suited for those who like to set it and forget it. But for most of us who like to fiddle with these things, it's a fun challenge to get it sounding the best. And when set-up properly, it really does sound pretty darn good. :thmbsp:

 

[AdamAnt316]

I purchased one of these cables and to be honest, am not overly thrilled with it. I just can't get it to seat properly. The cable feels like it is going to fall off at any moment. In fact I had to go back today and push it in again after having fought with it for the better part of two hours yesterday.

Thanks for the report. I was leery about spending $69 on a cable, and can see that my worries were not unfounded. Hopefully, there's a simple explanation behind the problem.
-Adam

 

[ZebraBlvd]

Originally Posted by ekmanning5
I purchased one of these cables and to be honest, am not overly thrilled with it. I just can't get it to seat properly. The cable feels like it is going to fall off at any moment. In fact I had to go back today and push it in again after having fought with it for the better part of two hours yesterday.

Originally Posted by AdamAnt316
Thanks for the report. I was leery about spending $69 on a cable, and can see that my worries were not unfounded. Hopefully, there's a simple explanation behind the problem.
-Adam

FWIW, here is the reply I got back from soundbug1 (the Gentleman selling these on that auction site) when I asked about any seating problems and such with his TA cables. I take no sides on this, just reporting what the Gentleman offered in my query to him.

My early cables had pins that were set in epoxy. If someone were to continually put the cable in and remove it, they might have experienced some pins coming loose. These new cables have pins set very tightly in rubber...they cannot come loose. These new cables are also lighter than the earlier ones. As far as seating properly is concerned, if people would simply read and follow the directions that are included with the cables, especially these new versions, there will be no seating issues. Please let people know these new versions are far superior to earlier versions including the better RCA ends and lighter cable.

 

[ekmanning5]

FWIW, here is the reply I got back from soundbug1 (the Gentleman selling these on that auction site) when I asked about any seating problems and such with his TA cables. I take no sides on this, just reporting what the Gentleman offered in my query to him.

My early cables had pins that were set in epoxy. If someone were to continually put the cable in and remove it, they might have experienced some pins coming loose. These new cables have pins set very tightly in rubber...they cannot come loose. These new cables are also lighter than the earlier ones. As far as seating properly is concerned, if people would simply read and follow the directions that are included with the cables, especially these new versions, there will be no seating issues. Please let people know these new versions are far superior to earlier versions including the better RCA ends and lighter cable.

Yes, he sends a one page instruction sheet along with the cables. Two sentences deal with how to put them in. The rest of the page is a how to fix hums and the like in other parts of the arm and headshell. I have wiggled, coerced, and pleaded with these things and am not happy with the connection. With the table leaning on its side I can shine a flashlight in there and still see pins. That shouldn't be the case. I'm not throwing the towel in yet, I'll devote another couple of hours of effort before I do that. I don't know how he measures the distance between the pins before assembly. I think the best way would be to have the piece the pins go into. They should all be the same from tonearm to tonearm. I've used an awl to gently pry apart the holes (he suggests a drill bit) and to increase the space between the pins as I felt it needed. Still isn't how I feel it should be. I'll give it a couple more tries and then contact him.

 

[ZebraBlvd]

Yes, he sends a one page instruction sheet along with the cables. Two sentences deal with how to put them in. The rest of the page is a how to fix hums and the like in other parts of the arm and headshell. I have wiggled, coerced, and pleaded with these things and am not happy with the connection. With the table leaning on its side I can shine a flashlight in there and still see pins. That shouldn't be the case. I'm not throwing the towel in yet, I'll devote another couple of hours of effort before I do that. I don't know how he measures the distance between the pins before assembly. I think the best way would be to have the piece the pins go into. They should all be the same from tonearm to tonearm. I've used an awl to gently pry apart the holes (he suggests a drill bit) and to increase the space between the pins as I felt it needed. Still isn't how I feel it should be. I'll give it a couple more tries and then contact him.

If I was having as much trouble as you are Ed I would most certainly be contacting him. In all honesty this is the 1st negative type response I have read about his cables. But like I said, I would not hesitate to contact him for a one on one type conversation if I was experiencing the problems you are.

 

[ekmanning5]

If I was having as much trouble as you are Ed I would most certainly be contacting him. In all honesty this is the 1st negative type response I have read about his cables. But like I said, I would not hesitate to contact him for a one on one type conversation if I was experiencing the problems you are.

I'll probably give him a holler tomorrow. I'm not trying to bash him either, just recounting my experiance. Sorry if it came out otherwise.