Empire 598 - suspension issues

[Brian]

The connector was a popular microphone plug in the heyday of CB radios and should be available at either a ham supply store or electronics parts house.

As for the tonearm, it gets a bad rap. It is an interesting arm with the clockspring system and when set up correctly with a medium compliance cartridge is as good as most stock arms.

 

[essamt3]

I can't see how either a new replacement cable or something cobbed together at home could be worse than the stock cable on a 598. I have a 598 and don't use it (even though I think it's beautiful) because the cable is always having some problem or other. Working loose...being so stiff that it hits the shelf the table is on and causes skips...crummy RCA ends... Like the other poster said...not a set and forget table, but something to play with and keep you busy. It is fun to use though once it's up and running...

 

[ZebraBlvd]

I'll probably give him a holler tomorrow. I'm not trying to bash him either, just recounting my experiance. Sorry if it came out otherwise.

I never took it as bashing EK, rather just an honest assessment by you. I put a lot of stock in what I read here on AK concerning pieces, parts and experiences dealing with audio related things.

 

[Brian]

Provided you have the original plug assembly, changing the 30+ year old cables is not difficult, just a little solder and iron plus a set of low capacitance cables. As for the table itself, it is no better or worse than any other table. Even the new owns generally need the suspension setup on arrival, etc. You can set it and let it work or get the modder bug and go crazy. I've been using mine for a decade with the original cables but do think I'd like to change then as they are getting stiff and the prior owner added a half *ss*d ground cable but it works.

Yes, guys are going hog wild, stripping the finish, building new bases, blue tack, etc. but, the reported results include satisfaction of having a nicer looking table than what they bought and having it sound even better than stock. Parts for it are not difficult to fabricate or locate as things like the suspension and springs are basically originally over the counter items and there is so little that can go wrong compared to some of the later more sophisticated stuff like the electronic speed control and direct drive tables.

 

[Big Bill]

Provided you have the original plug assembly, changing the 30+ year old cables is not difficult, just a little solder and iron plus a set of low capacitance cables. As for the table itself, it is no better or worse than any other table. Even the new owns generally need the suspension setup on arrival, etc. You can set it and let it work or get the modder bug and go crazy. I've been using mine for a decade with the original cables but do think I'd like to change then as they are getting stiff and the prior owner added a half *ss*d ground cable but it works.

Yes, guys are going hog wild, stripping the finish, building new bases, blue tack, etc. but, the reported results include satisfaction of having a nicer looking table than what they bought and having it sound even better than stock. Parts for it are not difficult to fabricate or locate as things like the suspension and springs are basically originally over the counter items and there is so little that can go wrong compared to some of the later more sophisticated stuff like the electronic speed control and direct drive tables.

Amen!

 

[MrMonster]

The Mighty Empire Praise and Curse

Hello lads,
thought I would chime in here. I discovered the Empires two years ago, with the purchase of a 598 III. I like them so much I now have six. Two each of the 598 III, the 698 and the 398. I have yet to own a better table under $1500 than these. If set up up properly, and taking the time to really figure them out. You might find like I did as to what a truly great turntable they are I sold off a pair of Dual CS 5000's and a Music Hall 5.1 as they sounded like your mom's old 45 player next to them.

I have discovered a lot of tips and tricks for these, including the fix for the infamous 598 cueing problem.

But as for the cable, remember, it is 35 years old, Mine all still work fine, but there is a few things you should do and one that is a work around.

First replace your RCA connectors with a good quality ones with a strain relief.
the second, it's probably not your cable at fault. it is more than likely the Female plug in the arm. The female connectors are of course split spring tension metal receptors, and they were originally installed in the plug as a press in fit with just a dab of sticky. now, after 35 years they have lost the springy, and/or they are getting loose in the plug.
The cheap and dirty way around this is to drill a hole in the back of the plinth about three inches to right of the tonearm plug and in the center of the plinth. Feed the cable through the hole, and the tension of the cable having to make a right angle to reach the tonearm plug helps keep it in place.

The correct way is to rewire the arm and install new/better female connectors in the plug. Not easy on an empire but worth it, or you can rewire the arm, drill a hole in that plug run wires out to RCA females, plus you can bypass the two connection setup on the clip by using cardas tags on the end of the wires and do a straight connect to the cartridge. Then you have one connection from cartridge to RCA instead of the four that you now have.

Just about any tonearm that is this old could stand being rewired. Most people don't even blink at rewiring an SME arm, So why not this one?

Getting the 598 and 695 platter level is very important, take a standard cheap wood ruler that you get free from the hardware store, and cut it into three equal length pieces These rulers are around 3/16th's in thick and this is the clearance the manual calls for on platter to base clearance. place one of the rulers at each of the three adjustment points and slip between platter and base. adjust the screws until up and down until all three rulers are a slip fit between the platter rim and the base. You should then have a level platter and the suspension set correctly.

The Arm height and the swing of the arm across the record is tricky and I will need more time and photos to do this as well as the cue problem..
But I love these tables and I have for cartridges in them a Shure V15 II, an Empire 4000II and an AT 440 all three give excellent results, and I think you can use a wider range of cartridges than is thought. as for the 980 and 990 arms,I really don't know if you can call them a high low or middle mass arm, as to the cartridge to use, as I am having good luck even with an Ortofon OM10 cartridge with no appreciable record wear, and decent tracking.

You can swap out arms on both the 398 easily and the 598 with a little more work and the right arm. But the main thing is that great platter, and that famous never die motor.

Till later.

Donald Bowman

 

[icenine9]

Empire replacement cable on the Bay

I just purchased one of these cable on eBay. It looks homemade, but it's sturdy and actually works great. I had no problem inserting it and it fits nice and snug.

 

[Montycat]

Have a look at these connector that I found at local stores. You can make your own custom cable with either. I still have them lying around but I have tested the fit and it is good and snug:

http://www.afishneedsastereo.com/search?q=empire

(yeah I know, it's an old thread but someone else brought it to the surface. )

 

[EsotericTT]

A Tale of Two 598 Suspensions

I recall my first AR turntable. They would advertise hitting the deck of it with a rubber mallot an have little resultant noise and/or skipping. My problem or confusion can relate to that memory.

I obtained a fine 598 a year ago. One thing that I noticed is that the suspenision was loose. The felt washers that are supposed to seal the pneumatic dampening cylinders were hardly in contact with the walls of the cylinders. So, the suspension would bob up an down, but not excessively. I figured that was the way they wer supposed to be and that pneumatic stuff was just some nice hype.

I just found and even cleaner 598, a later 598III. While examining and cleaning it, I notice that the felt washers did indead contact the cylinder. Ah, that was the way they were supposed to be. The 598III does not bounce as much as the 598. In fact if you push the deck up and down, you will hear the felt rubbing in the cylinders. Also, I noticed a difference in the way the two behaved to foot trafic. The 598III is much more sensitive to it and more easily skips.

Today, I took the whole mechanism apart. The felt is not hard or grossly oversized. It appears original and as designed. I sprayed the cylinder insides wth a little silicon lubricant, and left it at that.

So, here are my thoughts. The worn out 598 works more like an AR. They are both good with floor traffic or tapping on the deck. They have no problems..The598III, which is near mint, and has less wear, is much more problematic with floor traffic. My inclination is trim back the felt and dispense with any dampening as it seems to actually do more damage than help. The old 598 was fine. A design mistake? Any comments?

 

[BuddhaBob]

Even though this is an old thread, since it has popped up I'll respond based on my experience ... back to the original question... you want to have 3/16" platter clearance all around. Due to the tonearm being in one corner, you will probably have to tighten that adjustment point in the rear corner a bit more, since the weight of the arm assembly is back there.

Another issue is the "flex" of whatever cable you have plugged into the arm. If you don't snake it away from the arm and out under the edge of the TT a certain way, it can push (or pull) on the tonearm corner. You can think that the platter suspension is adjusted, then shift the TT a bit and the cable tension will allow that rear corner to lift or drop. Just something to watch for.

I disagree that the tonearm can't be a "set and forget" item, IF you don't change carts/styli or move the TT. If you get it set and leave it, you're good to go. If you get a Shure with the damper brush, 97xE or V15, it is especially forgiving of warps and will play just fine until you need to replace a stylus.

I used to amaze the gang by lifting the left side of the table until I could rest the entire thing, playing, on the right hand side of the TT--not quite vertical, but close. This was with an Empire cart running at .9G. Some carts are just not a good match for this arm and you will get tracking anomalies, certainly. I've had mine since 1973 and love it.