Empire Thread of Inductance & Resistance for 2000 style bodies

[Doug G.]

Yeah, is there any way to test for any difference in the styli alone, say, between an early pig nose and a swing down guard version, which is later?

As far as the looping zeros vs. the plain zeros, albeit both with the backward "R" logo, I, at first, thought the plain zero version is earlier but I now think they may have been produced concurrently. I don't really know, however. Both my versions, one pig nose and one swing down, have
(or the pig nose version HAD plain zeros until the plain zeros got wiped off) plain zero bodies. Of course, I bought the swing down one used so the stylus could be a later one placed on an earlier body.

Doug

 

[russdall]

I bought my 4000 D/II in1974 and it had looping zeros, which came out just before the 2000E series. So I'm thinking these are the earliest models.....I may be wrong, but I don't remember either model before that time.

 

[wualta]

There may be more to it, but my method of getting a rough idea of a model's original design is to find the earliest ads in the relevant magazines. Often an agency will work up an ad based on preliminary drawings or photos, since they had to work months in advance of the item showing up at retail outlets. So maybe try the pdfs of audio magazines at worldradiohistory.com.
Side note: ADC ads for the standard-mount and p-mount Integras go too far back-- they show big differences between original ad and actual product.

 

[desertrat748]

Of course, I bought the swing down one used so the stylus could be a later one placed on an earlier body

I like swing but if I would have placed anything on a body while dancing to swing I think I would have got slapped.

 

[Doug G.]

Hmm, maybe the looped zeros WERE earlier. I wonder why Empire would have changed to the plain zeros. I know, I know, it's Empire.

Doug

 

[desertrat748]

Hmm, maybe the looped zeros WERE earlier. I wonder why Empire would have changed to the plain zeros. I know, I know, it's Empire.

Doug

Marketing. Plus it was the 70’s and had to be flamboyant… so…. Looping zeros??? Makes sense to me.. sort of

 

[russdall]

Ok.....From what I can see from HiFi Review/Stereo Review . The first full page ad for the 4000D series was October of 1974 and the first ad I could find showing the whole line up including the 2000E series is February 1975. Just ads of course........

10/1974 02/1975

And all the 2000Es are shown with pig-nose styli........I think I need a cold beer

Update; Found this from August of 1974,,,,,, "The Troubador Model 598111 comes complete with walnut base, plexiglass dust cover and world's finest
cartridge (Empire 4000 D/III). List price $399 95"

 

[ig88]

On its way .

 

[russdall]

That's the one I use......perfect for reading resistance/inductance on carts.

It's also handy to have a pair of leads with small alligator clips on each end.

https://www.amazon.com/WGGE-WG-026-...XX25HFX/ref=pd_lpo_3?pd_rd_i=B06XX25HFX&psc=1

 

[wualta]

And don't forget to use the capacitance part of the meter to test your cables. Sorry-- "interconnects". EDIT: See Doug G's post 284 for another fun old-timey term!

 

[russdall]

And don't forget to use the capacitance part of the meter to test your cables. Sorry-- "interconnects".

Could you kindly provide "Brain Training" for those of us that do not know the meter settings and or the proper procedure for doing such?
Please and Thank You! (you've suggested it many times but I've always been complacent in doing so)

 

[wualta]

Sure. Remove cable from any/all connections, click meter to 2000pF (sometimes labeled "2000P"), grab RCA plug, put probes on pin and shield. Try not to touch the probes with fingers so that your body's capacitance isn't being read, and voyla! or walla! or...

 

[russdall]

click meter to 2000pF (sometimes labeled "2000P"

Thanks....that was the part I wasn't quite sure about. I know you've told me before, just like checking my VL-5's......But ya-know....life happens.

 

[ig88]

That's the one I use......perfect for reading resistance/inductance on carts.

It's also handy to have a pair of leads with small alligator clips on each end.

https://www.amazon.com/WGGE-WG-026-...XX25HFX/ref=pd_lpo_3?pd_rd_i=B06XX25HFX&psc=1

Got the clips , my other meters got everything else on it but MH .

 

[ig88]

Got about 30+ to test with one on the way .

 

[desertrat748]

Sure. Remove cable from any/all connections, click meter to 2000pF (sometimes labeled "2000P"), grab RCA plug, put probes on pin and shield. Try not to touch the probes with fingers so that your body's capacitance isn't being read, and voyla! or walla! or...

Most of the old empire carts are happy around the 300-400 pF. Some modern carts call for 1/2 of that.

My current table has about ~ 160 pf and then I have the preamp and then the 2nd set of cables at ~ 180 pF. I am guessing that the total is very close to 400 pF. Sounds great with a 66, or 2000z (calls for 300 pF ) clones. If I bypass preamp and use something like an integrated amp or high end receiver, I lose a little bit of balanced sound.

It might be a good idea to measure all of the signal path to see what the total loading is truly at. I now use rca cables to increase the loading knowing that the current trend is for low impedance cables and a fancy preamp to change load.

Didn’t think it would make much of a difference but it is a small trick to getting the right load without a fancy expensive preamp and fancy expensive cables. (I want fancy and expensive but my wallet doesn’t agree with me).

Something to keep in mind.

 

[Grainger49]

DR, the capacitance only counts to the phono stage. So the cables and input capacitance of your phono stage are all that count for capacitive loading.

 

[desertrat748]

DR, the capacitance only counts to the phono stage. So the cables and input capacitance of your phono stage are all that count for capacitive loading.

So from the tone arm to the input to the amp is what I measure. It makes a difference in my set up.

 

[Grainger49]

Exactly! You can add capacitance across the input jacks to achieve the suggested 300-400pF.

 

[desertrat748]

Exactly! Just suggesting a poor man’s fix by adding couplings and extra length of cable or buying the higher impedance ones. No soldering or purchase of high priced pre-made ones. Save the money for a new OE stylus that are now hard to find.