Hi,
My name is Juan. I´m from Spain (Europe). I am 42 years old. Father of three children of 3, 5 and 7 years old (I´m never bored.... hahaha). I work on a real estate company. We make buildings and sell the homes. Sorry for my horrible english. Let´s hope you understand me.
As long as I can remember, I have enjoyed music and hi-fi. I also liked machines and electronic components, so it´s not uncommon that I have finished here.
Many months searching webs, forums, shows, videos, "expert" opinions, "commercial" opinions, sellers with "interests", sellers "without any interest"... Hi-Fi world is a long trip, a difficult trip with "shine" products and (at least) a five digit price... A jungle for rich men. A paradise for the new economies. Another "economic bubble"... If you are a person like me, with little knowledge, it´s easy to be scared...
I'm looking to set up a hi-fi system. I'm using Qobuz streaming service (no CD´s and no vinyls).
What I´m lookig for: dynamic sound, holographic and intimate experience (the speakers disappear and you are in the live concert), warm sound (I´m not closed to neutral fidelity but I don´t want fatigue and "in your face sound"), deep bass (but I don´t want independent subs) and good speakers at low level volumes (does it mean efficient speakers??).
Until recently, I was seriously considering models like the Magico A5, Stenheim Alumine (3 or 5), Legacy Audio Aeris, Rockport Aviar II, YG Acoustics Hailey 2, Gershman Acoustics Avant Garde, DeVore Fidelity O´96 or Vandersteen... But then, one day, I read the interview to Gregg Timbers on "Positive Feedback". It was really revealing (see: https://positive-feedback.com/interviews/greg-timbers-jbl/).
- Who do you admire as a speaker designer today?
I honestly don't pay much attention to loudspeaker designers any more. Every now and then I see something that looks cool or refreshing to me, but mostly everything is a rehash of what has gone before and is so covered with marketing hype that I just don't care. I am a dynamics guy and very few loudspeakers take that into consideration, in my opinion. Two Engineers that I do admire are Bill Decanio and Charles Sprinkle. Both are or were Harman guys and their work is always top notch. I came to JBL directly out of UCLA with no experience other than my hobbiest stuff. Ed May was perhaps the most famous engineer ever to work at JBL other than JB Lansing himself. Ed took me under his wing and taught me the things I needed to become who I am as a designer.
- Speakers or design choices that make you frown? (Fads, etc.… series crossovers, single driver, panels, ribbon, etc.)
I think that all types of designs have merits. It comes down to the intended audience and what is trying to be accomplished. I hate marketing BS. Most of the loudspeakers advertised are so full of it that I just don't pay any attention. I can usually determine from the transducer and/or network design what the potential of the system is and mostly it will be a lot less than suggested. I don't think it is possible to make a truly High Fidelity loudspeaker using a single driver or panel. Same thing is true with series crossovers. It is a given that multiple transducers will be required and it then comes down to the horsepower of the individual devices and enclosure design to determine true High Fidelity. 2-way, 3-way and 4-way designs all have merits depending on their intended application and the design of the transducers used.
- How has the sound of speakers changed over the years? Many yearn for the speakers of the past over those of today… what has changed? Distortion, materials, focus on sound characteristics?
Speakers have generally become smoother, more 3-dimensional and much smaller. This means that they are less dynamic on the whole and rather toy like compared to good stuff from the 60s and 70s. Unlike electronics, miniaturization is not a good thing with loudspeakers. There is no substitute for size and horsepower. Nothing much has changed with the laws of physics in the last 100 years so what it takes to make dynamic life-like sound is unchanged. There have been some advances in magnet materials and a bunch of progress in adhesives but not much else. The cost of a 70s system in today's economy would be considered unaffordable and the system would be deemed unnecessarily huge. The large highly efficient systems of old came at a time when 15 – 30 watts of power was the norm. Today's stuff would choke on those amplifiers. Now that power is cheap, size and efficiency has been thrown out the window because you can always apply more power. Unfortunately, more power does not make up for lack of efficiency. Today's speakers range between 0.1% to maybe 0.5% in efficiency. (On a good day) 60s and 70s stuff was more like 1% to 10%. With most of the losses gong to heat, turning up the power on a small system with small voice coils and poor heat management is definitely not equivalent to a large high efficient speaker.
It is true that the response of many of the old systems was a bit ragged and generally less attention was put in the crossover networks because simplicity generally means higher through-put. However, the big Altec's, JBL's, Klipsch's and Tannoys of the day would still fair well today with a little modernization of the enclosures and crossovers.
Today's multi-channel home theater setups let a bunch of small toy loudspeakers and a sub or two sound pretty big and impressive to the average Joe. I think speakers have mostly become a commodity and small size and price are what counts the most now. The few high-end brands left are struggling for market share in this age of ear buds.
In summary, for Gregg, “size matters” and physics is physics” an he also hates marketing (just like me). So after that, I focus my interest on speakers with big woofers (15 and 18 inches) and brands like JBL Synthesis (model K2 S9900), vintage models (from JBL or Altec), Tannoy, PMC, and ATC. Legendary brands with models that in some cases seem to be more for the profesional market, where the design is not important and the only concern is THE SOUND. Just the opposite to the “minimalistic” designs that are norm or tendecy nowadays on the high-end market.
I know that the next question is going to be controversial, but I must do it: Do you think that “size matters” and new designs are not worthy in terms of sound quality and capabilities??
It is clear that it´s absolutely necessary to hear the speakers "in person". The problem: I live in a region with no specific audio commerces and, also, many of the brands in which I´m interested have no distribution on my country. In most cases also, an offical distributor doesn´t guarantees that they are going to have in stock speakers to hear them, beacuse with specific models they only work on request. Not to mention those distributors that strongly advise against one of their own brands (maybe they have more interest in selling the other brands they have).
Consequently, the comments and suggestions of people from this forum are really important to me (experts advices from someone with many speakers "on his shoulders").
Let´s talk about my room. It´s a big space of 41 square meters (if I´m not mistaken they are 441,33 square feet aprox.). The speakers are at 13 feet between each other and they are at 2 feet from the wall. The sofa is at 12 feet from the speakers aprox. This is my actual room. No specific treatment. Is a rented home so I´m not going (I can´t) make any change. In two years I´ll go to a new home. The dimensions of the new "audio space" will be similar or even bigger.
Music preferences (right now I´m really eclectic and I like a lot of music genres): soul, jazz, classics and a lot of rock (that´s the reason of looking to deep bass capable speakers).
Devices: I will choose the Power Amp + Pre + DAC + Streamer after choosing the speakers. All new. (In principle I prefer valves).
I’m not closed to any technology or possibility; I´m not an expert.
Horns speakers, in many cases, are described as holographic (the sensation of been part of the concert) but the nasal sound could be a problem.
Electrostatic, magneplanar or ribbon speakers, are incredible on the holographic experience but they have two big problems: they are not the most dynamics and the bass is poor (as I said, I don´t want independent subs; yes Martin Logan have speakers with subs incorporated but the bass seems to not go at the same time of the rest of frequencies).
Let´s talk now about omnidirectional speakers. I always was impressed by MBL. When you talk about holographic sound always appears this brand (and omnidirectional technology). My doubts: the bass (another time) seems to be incapable and, also, I don´t know if it´s a must separate the spekers from the wall a lot, because the sound is a 360 degrees sound and if you have a wall very near (like in my case) it could be a problem. I don´t know.
About vintage speakers. I really like some of the big vintage speakers. I’m talking about Altec or JBL and I’m talking, also, about Kenrick Sound speakers. I could imagine that holographic image maybe is better with modern speakers but what is your opinion?? Vintage speakers are only another market fashion?? Another marketing product (just as analog “tendency). Are vintage speakers worthy in your opinion??
My last “battle” seems to be between the Alsyvox Botticelli speakers vs Classic Audio Loudspeakers T1.5 Reference vs Zingali Client EVO 3.18. Totally different concepts as you can see. Full range ribbon vs horn?? I’m really lost. I need your help.
Some questions,
1) What can you tell me about vintage speakers in general and about Kenrick Sound speakers in particular. Are they worthy in your opinion?? There is also a shop in USA (auralfetish.com) that do custom restorations of vintage Altecs. Any opinion about them??
2) Did anyone heard Alsyvox Botticelli or the Classic Audio Loudspeakers T1.5 Reference or the Zingali EVO 3.18?? Which one would you recommend me??
3) What speakers would you be your personal recommendation, taking in account that I´m lookig for: dynamic sound, holographic and intimate experience (the speakers disappear and you are in the live concert), warm sound (I´m not closed to neutral fidelity but I don´t want fatigue and "in your face sound"), deep bass (but I don´t want independent subs) and good speakers at low level volumes?? The speakers that you will buy for your own home??
I want speakers to die for (haha). Thanks in advance for your interest. Stay healthy.
Juan
My name is Juan. I´m from Spain (Europe). I am 42 years old. Father of three children of 3, 5 and 7 years old (I´m never bored.... hahaha). I work on a real estate company. We make buildings and sell the homes. Sorry for my horrible english. Let´s hope you understand me.
As long as I can remember, I have enjoyed music and hi-fi. I also liked machines and electronic components, so it´s not uncommon that I have finished here.
Many months searching webs, forums, shows, videos, "expert" opinions, "commercial" opinions, sellers with "interests", sellers "without any interest"... Hi-Fi world is a long trip, a difficult trip with "shine" products and (at least) a five digit price... A jungle for rich men. A paradise for the new economies. Another "economic bubble"... If you are a person like me, with little knowledge, it´s easy to be scared...
I'm looking to set up a hi-fi system. I'm using Qobuz streaming service (no CD´s and no vinyls).
What I´m lookig for: dynamic sound, holographic and intimate experience (the speakers disappear and you are in the live concert), warm sound (I´m not closed to neutral fidelity but I don´t want fatigue and "in your face sound"), deep bass (but I don´t want independent subs) and good speakers at low level volumes (does it mean efficient speakers??).
Until recently, I was seriously considering models like the Magico A5, Stenheim Alumine (3 or 5), Legacy Audio Aeris, Rockport Aviar II, YG Acoustics Hailey 2, Gershman Acoustics Avant Garde, DeVore Fidelity O´96 or Vandersteen... But then, one day, I read the interview to Gregg Timbers on "Positive Feedback". It was really revealing (see: https://positive-feedback.com/interviews/greg-timbers-jbl/).
- Who do you admire as a speaker designer today?
I honestly don't pay much attention to loudspeaker designers any more. Every now and then I see something that looks cool or refreshing to me, but mostly everything is a rehash of what has gone before and is so covered with marketing hype that I just don't care. I am a dynamics guy and very few loudspeakers take that into consideration, in my opinion. Two Engineers that I do admire are Bill Decanio and Charles Sprinkle. Both are or were Harman guys and their work is always top notch. I came to JBL directly out of UCLA with no experience other than my hobbiest stuff. Ed May was perhaps the most famous engineer ever to work at JBL other than JB Lansing himself. Ed took me under his wing and taught me the things I needed to become who I am as a designer.
- Speakers or design choices that make you frown? (Fads, etc.… series crossovers, single driver, panels, ribbon, etc.)
I think that all types of designs have merits. It comes down to the intended audience and what is trying to be accomplished. I hate marketing BS. Most of the loudspeakers advertised are so full of it that I just don't pay any attention. I can usually determine from the transducer and/or network design what the potential of the system is and mostly it will be a lot less than suggested. I don't think it is possible to make a truly High Fidelity loudspeaker using a single driver or panel. Same thing is true with series crossovers. It is a given that multiple transducers will be required and it then comes down to the horsepower of the individual devices and enclosure design to determine true High Fidelity. 2-way, 3-way and 4-way designs all have merits depending on their intended application and the design of the transducers used.
- How has the sound of speakers changed over the years? Many yearn for the speakers of the past over those of today… what has changed? Distortion, materials, focus on sound characteristics?
Speakers have generally become smoother, more 3-dimensional and much smaller. This means that they are less dynamic on the whole and rather toy like compared to good stuff from the 60s and 70s. Unlike electronics, miniaturization is not a good thing with loudspeakers. There is no substitute for size and horsepower. Nothing much has changed with the laws of physics in the last 100 years so what it takes to make dynamic life-like sound is unchanged. There have been some advances in magnet materials and a bunch of progress in adhesives but not much else. The cost of a 70s system in today's economy would be considered unaffordable and the system would be deemed unnecessarily huge. The large highly efficient systems of old came at a time when 15 – 30 watts of power was the norm. Today's stuff would choke on those amplifiers. Now that power is cheap, size and efficiency has been thrown out the window because you can always apply more power. Unfortunately, more power does not make up for lack of efficiency. Today's speakers range between 0.1% to maybe 0.5% in efficiency. (On a good day) 60s and 70s stuff was more like 1% to 10%. With most of the losses gong to heat, turning up the power on a small system with small voice coils and poor heat management is definitely not equivalent to a large high efficient speaker.
It is true that the response of many of the old systems was a bit ragged and generally less attention was put in the crossover networks because simplicity generally means higher through-put. However, the big Altec's, JBL's, Klipsch's and Tannoys of the day would still fair well today with a little modernization of the enclosures and crossovers.
Today's multi-channel home theater setups let a bunch of small toy loudspeakers and a sub or two sound pretty big and impressive to the average Joe. I think speakers have mostly become a commodity and small size and price are what counts the most now. The few high-end brands left are struggling for market share in this age of ear buds.
In summary, for Gregg, “size matters” and physics is physics” an he also hates marketing (just like me). So after that, I focus my interest on speakers with big woofers (15 and 18 inches) and brands like JBL Synthesis (model K2 S9900), vintage models (from JBL or Altec), Tannoy, PMC, and ATC. Legendary brands with models that in some cases seem to be more for the profesional market, where the design is not important and the only concern is THE SOUND. Just the opposite to the “minimalistic” designs that are norm or tendecy nowadays on the high-end market.
I know that the next question is going to be controversial, but I must do it: Do you think that “size matters” and new designs are not worthy in terms of sound quality and capabilities??
It is clear that it´s absolutely necessary to hear the speakers "in person". The problem: I live in a region with no specific audio commerces and, also, many of the brands in which I´m interested have no distribution on my country. In most cases also, an offical distributor doesn´t guarantees that they are going to have in stock speakers to hear them, beacuse with specific models they only work on request. Not to mention those distributors that strongly advise against one of their own brands (maybe they have more interest in selling the other brands they have).
Consequently, the comments and suggestions of people from this forum are really important to me (experts advices from someone with many speakers "on his shoulders").
Let´s talk about my room. It´s a big space of 41 square meters (if I´m not mistaken they are 441,33 square feet aprox.). The speakers are at 13 feet between each other and they are at 2 feet from the wall. The sofa is at 12 feet from the speakers aprox. This is my actual room. No specific treatment. Is a rented home so I´m not going (I can´t) make any change. In two years I´ll go to a new home. The dimensions of the new "audio space" will be similar or even bigger.
Music preferences (right now I´m really eclectic and I like a lot of music genres): soul, jazz, classics and a lot of rock (that´s the reason of looking to deep bass capable speakers).
Devices: I will choose the Power Amp + Pre + DAC + Streamer after choosing the speakers. All new. (In principle I prefer valves).
I’m not closed to any technology or possibility; I´m not an expert.
Horns speakers, in many cases, are described as holographic (the sensation of been part of the concert) but the nasal sound could be a problem.
Electrostatic, magneplanar or ribbon speakers, are incredible on the holographic experience but they have two big problems: they are not the most dynamics and the bass is poor (as I said, I don´t want independent subs; yes Martin Logan have speakers with subs incorporated but the bass seems to not go at the same time of the rest of frequencies).
Let´s talk now about omnidirectional speakers. I always was impressed by MBL. When you talk about holographic sound always appears this brand (and omnidirectional technology). My doubts: the bass (another time) seems to be incapable and, also, I don´t know if it´s a must separate the spekers from the wall a lot, because the sound is a 360 degrees sound and if you have a wall very near (like in my case) it could be a problem. I don´t know.
About vintage speakers. I really like some of the big vintage speakers. I’m talking about Altec or JBL and I’m talking, also, about Kenrick Sound speakers. I could imagine that holographic image maybe is better with modern speakers but what is your opinion?? Vintage speakers are only another market fashion?? Another marketing product (just as analog “tendency). Are vintage speakers worthy in your opinion??
My last “battle” seems to be between the Alsyvox Botticelli speakers vs Classic Audio Loudspeakers T1.5 Reference vs Zingali Client EVO 3.18. Totally different concepts as you can see. Full range ribbon vs horn?? I’m really lost. I need your help.
Some questions,
1) What can you tell me about vintage speakers in general and about Kenrick Sound speakers in particular. Are they worthy in your opinion?? There is also a shop in USA (auralfetish.com) that do custom restorations of vintage Altecs. Any opinion about them??
2) Did anyone heard Alsyvox Botticelli or the Classic Audio Loudspeakers T1.5 Reference or the Zingali EVO 3.18?? Which one would you recommend me??
3) What speakers would you be your personal recommendation, taking in account that I´m lookig for: dynamic sound, holographic and intimate experience (the speakers disappear and you are in the live concert), warm sound (I´m not closed to neutral fidelity but I don´t want fatigue and "in your face sound"), deep bass (but I don´t want independent subs) and good speakers at low level volumes?? The speakers that you will buy for your own home??
I want speakers to die for (haha). Thanks in advance for your interest. Stay healthy.
Juan
