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End game speakers

It’s the old story about matching the source of amplification to a pair of speakers to obtain a wonderful sound. An amazing pair of speakers will not do that without an amazing amplifier and DAC. At the money you are spending for speakers, bring your DAC and amplifier with you to see what sound a complete system makes. Many people think that a good receiver and a great pair of speakers is the best. Go with a DAC, preamp, amplifier to the speakers. Then the cables to include internet cable makes all the difference in the world.
 
You are right on with your statements and goes back to what I said about it’s what makes this hobby so great. That there are so many different pieces of gear to choose from that it’s almost impossible for someone to not find the sound they like.

Everyone hears differently and like you said , the mood, environment, setup etc make a big difference from day to day in how a system may sound to someone. Even my Vandys sometimes don’t do it for me at certain times but 99% of the time I love them so the good outweighs the bad.

Audiofreak71

I think the reason audio forums get more argumentative than other hobbies is because I think most people do hear things similarly but that there is no shared experience. As you say the Vandys don't always do it for you so if you take that instance where you are "meh" imagine that that is the one and only experience someone else has of them. So now you get where they are coming from. I run into a lot of gear that doesn't do it for me and then one day - wow this is quite good. Sometimes it's totally bizarre matches - take B&W - not really a fan but I heard a nice set-up 801s being driven with a 27 watt Wyatech Labs Single Ended tube amp using 211s - you could not play loud but man it was a nice sound.

Even within brands - I was never much of a fan of the Audio Note SORO or Meishu amplifiers. I preferred the sound of the OTO which is considerably cheaper (half the price of the Meishu). When I would hear systems the SORO seemed to in your face and the Meishu was, as my Hong Kong manufacturing friend describes, lady like. Too genteel and soft. I felt it was a pretty amplifier and I loved it with strings but it seemed too soft and for the money it's a big outlay for something that can't really play everything. I felt that way about all 300B amplifiers, some like the Cary are even softer and mushier.

I am somewhat fortunate to live in Hong Kong because the top of the line models are typically stocked from all the major brands and the dealers are seconds walk from one to the next. I remember listening tot he top of the line ATC system walk down a flight or two and listen to $2million Rockport Arrakis, VTL, Clearaudio Statement (the turntable set-up is a million US) and while there a pianist in a jazz band was auditioning the first cut of his soon to be released LP. Hey why buy the stuff when you can just sit down and play your music on their set-ups?

Here are some examples - some outlandish some not but take this room - Harbeth/PMC/Sugden/Nagra/Naim/Bryston/Moonrver Audio and I think those are Brinkman monoblocks on the floor. So you see one room like this - that dealer has 4 rooms. there are 4 floor below and 8 floors above with 3 to 4 rooms and most with big open showrroms with dozens of brands.

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Then you have your Fyne, Tannoy, Sonus Faber (I think) and AvantGarde (left to right)
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And when you set up an audition they'll take it into the room and the room (unlike an audio show or a lot of dealers in the west) is actually a quality room.

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Standmounts anyone?
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Don't worry they have a dedicated room and can bring these into those spaces for a better audition. Few dealers in North America carry the numbers - and again 12-20 floors carrying a different amount of stuff. and 2 minute walk and another building carry all different gear and another building and another building and another still. Some are dedicated to carrying used so you can get those old 1970s McIntosh or Sonic Frontiers.

Heck you can even get yourself a Jukebox if you have $20 grand lying around

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For decades I've bought into the Greg Timbers Kool-aid. I have several JBLs that he engineered. My favorites are the 4345 4-ways with the 18-inch woofer—the same woofer used in the original iMax system as subs. He has been very forthcoming and honest with the JBL community in offering his opinions and help on these legacy models. I often quote him on the 4345s: ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

That big mash-up is my holy grail, and I have 250ti's to compare—another great Timbers design. My 4345s have crossovers from a later Timbers design suggestion and no bi-amp switch—another modification suggested by Greg. His leaving JBL was a bean-counter decision and I can't thank him enough for his enduring legacy and the joy it brings me.

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247mwDw
 
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If I was going to spend $50K on any one audio component, it would be on speakers. At that price point most any repeatable audio store will roll out the red carpet and setup quality demos of most anything. You are sure to find something to your liking. You may have to spend some money on travel? Enjoy the journey.
 
For decades I've bought into the Greg Timbers Kool-aid. I have several JBLs that he engineered. My favorites are the 4345 4-ways with the 18-inch woofer—the same woofer used in the original iMax system as subs. He has been very forthcoming and honest with the JBL community in offering his opinions and help on these legacy models. I often quote him on the 4345s: ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

That big mash-up is my holy grail, and I have 250ti's to compare—another great Timbers design. My 4345s have crossovers from a later Timbers design suggestion and no bi-amp switch—another modification suggested by Greg. His leaving JBL was a bean-counter decision and I can't thank him enough for his enduring legacy and the joy it brings me.

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247mwDw

Back in the day, people would dump on JBL for being a rock speaker which was another way of saying the froo froo speakers from Europe were abysmal at rock - which they kind of is compared to the big old JBLs. A big record store here has some of the very expensive JBLS (blue) - a bit tired to look it up but 15 inch woofers, etc. Probably go for $20,000 second-hand - and they sound great. Kenrick Sound does restoration videos on them on youtube. Dynamics are the lifeblood of music and almost all of those narrow baffle speakers today have none - they can play loud but that is different.

Some JBL love

 
Agreed. I have listened to and have owned smaller speakers, line-arrays, etc. that can get loud, and can produce bass. But, you can tell that they're really working to make it happen.

The big 15" drivers and large-throat horns make the same music sound more natural and effortless IME, I leave the narrow-baffle stuff for HT where nothing is natural anyway.
 
And see I think the big horns and big drivers like that just mess the sound up. Also most horn speakers give me a headache when I Iisten to them. Most also need more room than I have and most people have.

I used to feel that way too. I have two sets of semi big horn speakers you would be hard pressed to know were horn speakers in a blind test. Sound balanced, not shouty, not bright... just kind natural and nice. I have a set rotated into my 2.1 channel HT system, watched several movies with the last few nights and was very happy with the dynamics, imaging and disappearing act they did. I will admit though, I am a glass half full guy and find the good in most things.
 
Agreed. I have listened to and have owned smaller speakers, line-arrays, etc. that can get loud, and can produce bass. But, you can tell that they're really working to make it happen.

The big 15" drivers and large-throat horns make the same music sound more natural and effortless IME, I leave the narrow-baffle stuff for HT where nothing is natural anyway.

Agree. I have some smaller speakers that do bass well but they really work at it. Then I have other speakers with huge bass that hardly move to make happen. Just idle along producing fast deep bass in whatever volume you require. I lean big box, big driver for bass.
 
And see I think the big horns and big drivers like that just mess the sound up. Also most horn speakers give me a headache when I Iisten to them. Most also need more room than I have and most people have.

I will certainly agree on my big EV Senior Centurion IVs, they needed corners that I wasn't willing to give up, and just (to me) sounded honky. If I were to form a horn judgement on those or my other EVs (can't remember the model, but lots of Klipsch guys like the tweeter horns) I would never have considered any other horn-based speakers.
 
Fortunately the OP is talking a substantial budget for his speakers and in the building trades, ... which should mean that a too-small audio room is not a problem.
 
Dynamics somehow doesn't seem to me to be the correct descriptive word. I much prefer "jump factor". There are parts of Stravinsky's Firebird (1918 version) that IME/O should make you jump in your chair. They do that for me.:)
 
I used to feel that way too. I have two sets of semi big horn speakers you would be hard pressed to know were horn speakers in a blind test. Sound balanced, not shouty, not bright... just kind natural and nice. I have a set rotated into my 2.1 channel HT system, watched several movies with the last few nights and was very happy with the dynamics, imaging and disappearing act they did. I will admit though, I am a glass half full guy and find the good in most things.

I think horns when done poorly are THE worst sounding loudspeakers - when done well are THE best sounding speakers. And they often take a helluva lot of work in positioning and system matching so you don't get the ear-bleeding bright and shouty results. And even some of the good ones are not completely free of this compared to other designs. And the better horns tend to cost a lot and require a lot of space. I think horns got a bad reputation in the 80s and 90s with some Klipsch models that paid no heed to time alignment so the treble would whack you in the face and eventually the bass would hit you. Some of them were pretty poor. They got better over the years and have brought back some of their classic series stuff which is the only stuff most people want - like the Forte and Cornwall. Still, these are not really representative of what Horns can do.

JBL is hugely popular in the jazz clubs and bars of Japan (edit I wrote Hong Kong by mistake). The narrow baffle design is more consistent and homogeneous from brand to brand. You can kind of flip a coin between them. I'll take a good horn.
 
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If I was shopping with that budget I’d go with Wilson’s and D’Agostino gear. Not sure if your $60k budget is total system or just speakers so it’s hard to recommend exact models. You will get big sound this way, it won’t be warm but it will be accurate, very engaging, and effortless. Treating your room is highly advised with this level of gear.
 
If I was shopping with that budget I’d go with Wilson’s and D’Agostino gear. Not sure if your $60k budget is total system or just speakers so it’s hard to recommend exact models. You will get big sound this way, it won’t be warm but it will be accurate, very engaging, and effortless. Treating your room is highly advised with this level of gear.

I would take your system over Wilson and D'Agostino :)
 
I want speakers to die for (haha). Thanks in advance for your interest. Stay healthy.

Juan

Well... if I had an unlimited budget, time, energy... I always wanted to restore one of these. Think they are nice. In a proper sized room, of course. :D

 
Great piece of history, sounds like crap. Why? Imagining is horrible with them. They are more for background music rather than just sitting down and listening.

Have you actually heard one? That's in the category of things I've only seen photos of
 
Well, I would take the Wilson (even though I am not fond of the speakers) and D'Agostino. I would sell the Wilsons and then buy Tidal or Marten.

I would sell the D'Agostino too - the tacky looks alone is a no go but the sound for the money isn't great - just Krell in an uglier case for more money. Marten didn't impress me - audiofederation was the importer for them. They moved to the much better Acapella line. Tidal hasn't done it for me yet either.

The Tune Tot is silly priced. I just reviewed a speaker at half the price that eats it for lunch and the professional monitoring speaker under current review from Rogers is much better and runs $3k less than the Tune Tot.
 
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