EPI 200C Resurrection

[motorcityguy]

Found me a pair of EPI 200C speakers about a year ago. They seem to be well-respected on AK, so I picked them up.

Cabinets were really minty, and they played OK, but the mid-woofers had been replaced with newer JBL drivers. However, the deal included the original mid-woofers (with disintegrated foam surrounds).

 

[motorcityguy]

First thing I did was to refoam the original mid-woofers. I used the specific EPI foam surrounds sold by an AK member Rick Cobb (He goes by "looneytune2001" on that popular auction site). They had the same profile as the original foams, and fit perfectly! (Generic foam surrounds, as offered by 99% of sellers, do NOT fit properly and place the speaker cone in a different "at rest" position. I highly recommend Rick's foam surrounds for EPI speakers.)

The foams came with a 30Hz CD test tone, which worked great and allowed me to refoam them, without removing dust caps and shimming the voice coil. I also epoxied the magnets on the mid-woofer and tweeter.

 

[RTally]

Good job getting them back into service. Be sure to recap them.

I have 3 pair of various EPI speakers. They are all great in their own way.

 

[motorcityguy]

I studied Hu's website (Human Speakers) and considered buying his crossover kits. His crossovers use a 10uF cap, like what was used on the EPI 100's. However, my 200C's, had a 16uF cap. (Hu's crossover schematics show that either 15 or 16uF is used on EPI 200.)

I sent an inquiry to Hu about why he recommended 10uF, and if he offered crossovers with a 16uF. I never did hear back from him, but after some consideration, I decided I wanted to retain the ORIGINAL configuration (16uF) for the crossover.

Couldn't find a 16uF that I wanted to use, so I went with a pair of 15uF Dayton Audio 1% poly caps. My thought was that a 15uF with 1% tolerance was well within the tolerance band of the original 16uF cap.

Per the Human Speakers website recommendation, I completely bypassed the original tweeter switch. I chose to mount the capacitor on the back panel of the speaker, adjacent to the binding post plate. In addition, I replaced the scrawny original EPI wire (22 gauge?) with 18 gauge, and new TE-brand crimp-on connectors.

I also upgraded from the original crappy spring-terminal posts to some Parts Express "banana plug" binding posts. Conveniently, they used the same mounting holes as the original posts. By the way, the masonite plates that held the binding posts were originally installed (very) crooked by EPI. So I removed them and re-glued them in, nice and straight.

Here are pictures of the original binding posts, and the replacements. Also shown is the wiring to install the new 15uF cap, WITHOUT going through the tweeter switch.

 

[motorcityguy]

Along the way, I treated the cabinets to Howard's Restore-a-finish (walnut) and some Howard's Feed and Wax. They look beautiful!

The grills, as received, had been recovered poorly. I sanded, sealed, and painted (flat black) the speaker grill frames. Then I installed (with staples, NOT glue) some new back nylon speaker cloth.

The EPI speaker emblems have broken studs, and had been GLUED to the old speaker grill cloth by prior owner. I won't use that method to mount them to the new cloth, and was originally planning to add a stud to each of the emblems so they could be attached correctly. However, the grills look so good without them.... Plus, I'm not impressed by the PLASTIC material of the emblem. I may just leave them off!

 

[motorcityguy]

Here's a shot of the refoamed and glued drivers, installed in the cabinets.

 

[motorcityguy]

I tried the completed speakers in my workshop, and they sound outstanding! Next step is to put them into rotation in the living area. I've been a Polk guy for a long time, and they will (temporarily) replace a set of mint early Monitor 10's with Peerless tweeter. While I LOVE the real-wood finish on the EPI's, I am skeptical that they can "beat" my Polks.... We'll see!

 

[motorcityguy]

Here's a shot of the refoamed and glued drivers, installed in the cabinets.

Oops! Not sure why my posted picture is coming up SIDEWAYS....

 

[RTally]

I studied Hu's website (Human Speakers) and considered buying his crossovers. However, his crossovers include a 10uF cap, like what was used on the EPI 100's. My 200C's, had a 16uF cap. I sent an inquiry to Hu about why he recommended 10uF, and if he offered 16uF. I got no response, and after some consideration, decided I wanted to retain the ORIGINAL configuration for the crossover.

I obtained a pair of 15uF Dayton Audio 1% poly caps. My thought was that a 15uF with 1% tolerance was well within the tolerance band of the original 16uF cap. Per the Human Speakers website recommendation, I completely bypassed the original tweeter switch. Additionally, I replaced the scrawny original wire (22 gauge?) with 18 gauge, and new TE crimp-on connectors.

In addition, I got some Parts Express binding posts, which used the same mounting holes as the original crappy spring-terminal posts. The plate that the binding posts attached to was installed crooked by EPI, so I removed it and reattached it to be STRAIGHT.

Here are pictures of the original binding posts, and the replacements. Also shown is the wiring to install the new 15uF cap, WITHOUT going through the tweeter switch.

The Burhoe Module has a mechanical/acoustic crossover in addition to the electrical crossover. Based on the variation of caps in original speakers, I believe that the cap value is not critical and is primarily there to block the lower frequencies from getting to the crossover and overheating the VC. The real FR magic is in the drivers.

I always replace those crappy spring terminals with binding posts. The same ones you used.

 

[RTally]

I tried the completed speakers in my workshop, and they sound outstanding! Next step is to put them into rotation in the living area. I've been a Polk guy for a long time, and they will (temporarily) replace a set of mint early Monitor 10's with Peerless tweeter. While I LOVE the real-wood finish on the EPI's, I am skeptical that they can "beat" my Polks.... We'll see!

I have not heard the EPI 200C, but it will likely be a close call with the Polk Monitor 10. I have Polk Monitor 7B (with Peerless tweeters) and they beat my EPI 100 speakers. I don't know how the Polks compare to my Epicure 20+ because I cannot set them up the way they need to be in my room.

 

[motorcityguy]

I have not heard the EPI 200C, but it will likely be a close call with the Polk Monitor 10. I have Polk Monitor 7B (with Peerless tweeters) and they beat my EPI 100 speakers. I don't know how the Polks compare to my Epicure 20+ because I cannot set them up the way they need to be in my room.

Yeah, I agree on the Polk 7 beating EPI 100. I have several sets of Polk 7's (with and without Peerless), but I prefer the more substantial sound of the Polk 10's. (Also have several sets of those! ). NONE of the Polks are recapped, and that is one of the next projects.

The thing I liked about the (recapped) EPI 200 was the great sounding vocals on selections like Diana Krall and some 60s bossa nova. We'll see how they do in the living room.... If they beat the Polks, then the next step will be to recap the Polks, and have a "bake-off!" ;-)

By the way, the EPI 200's are very uncommon in my area. The ones I have are the only set I've seen offered for sale locally, in a number of years. In contrast, the Polks (7's AND 10's) are relatively plentiful and (usually) affordable. My guess is that the rubber surrounds on the drivers made the Polks much more durable. Whereas the crappy foam on the EPI's resulted in a ton of them going out to the curb.

 

[motorcityguy]

The Burhoe Module has a mechanical/acoustic crossover in addition to the electrical crossover. Based on the variation of caps in original speakers, I believe that the cap value is not critical and is primarily there to block the lower frequencies from getting to the crossover and overheating the VC. The real FR magic is in the drivers.

Could be... But I was not prepared to accept the "universal" 10uF cap that Huw is selling. I'm putting my faith in the fact that the 16uF in the original speakers was the "ideal" value for those drivers in that particular cabinet. That's why I stuck with the original value. As the old saying goes... "Dance with the one that brung ya"

 

[RTally]

Yeah, I agree on the Polk 7 beating EPI 100. I have several sets of Polk 7's (with and without Peerless), but I prefer the more substantial sound of the Polk 10's. (Also have several sets of those! ). NONE of the Polks are recapped, and that is one of the next projects.

The thing I liked about the (recapped) EPI 200 was the great sounding vocals on selections like Diana Krall. We'll see how they do in the living room.... If they beat the Polks, then the next step will be to recap the Polks so we have an even playing field!

By the way, the big EPI's are very uncommon in my area. The ones I have are the only set I've seen in a half dozen years. In contrast, the Polks (7's AND 10's) are relatively plentiful and affordable. My guess is that the rubber surrounds on the drivers made the Polks much more durable. Whereas the crappy foam on the EPI's resulted in a ton of them going out to the curb.

I just picked up my Polk Monitor 7B and 10A on a trip I made to northern Ohio, not too far from Michigan. I found several to choose from. They are not too common in Tennessee, but I did get my 5B from the local ReStore.

 

[motorcityguy]

I just picked up my Polk Monitor 7B and 10A on a trip I made to northern Ohio, not too far from Michigan. I found several to choose from. They are not too common in Tennessee, but I did get my 5B from the local ReStore.

Can't go wrong with Polk 7's and 10's. Both are great!

 

[luxmaster]

Very nice job on your Epi's. I have also meaning to stain mine and make them look richer. My mid woofers are rubber taken from an Epi M150. It's amazing how real they sound for such a simple speaker. I use mine in my home theater setup. They sound real good at low volume.

 

[ra.ra]

That was a really nice write-up of a restoration project, and the quality of the work is superb. The decision to stay with original cap value is a good choice, and the correct foams and new posts are well executed. My only question, and possible disagreement, is that if you have basically bought into the notion of the original design, why would you feel a desire to abandon the switch circuit which was originally included for a specific purpose? And no close-up pics, front or back, to show type and operation of switch? I see people doing this all the time with EPI's, and I know Huw recommends this, but I just don't get it. My early EPI-100's have the original rotary control, and I think it is great to have this feature in order to adjust for varying interior environments.

 

[onwardjames]

I have not heard the EPI 200C, but it will likely be a close call with the Polk Monitor 10. I have Polk Monitor 7B (with Peerless tweeters) and they beat my EPI 100 speakers. I don't know how the Polks compare to my Epicure 20+ because I cannot set them up the way they need to be in my room.

I had a later pair of Polk 10's, and I have a restored set of Model 20's that were transferred to a 201 cabinet (with those funny "ears" on the sides of the cabs).

For my ears, the Polks were sent packing, those Epi's were just too good. But to be fair, the Model 10's used 1 tweeter, 2 6.5's and a passive. The Model 20's used 2 8'' and 2 inverted dome tweeters. So, not truly a fair fight.



This is a wonderful restoration!!!!

 

[Crang]

Very nice! I've made up my mind to grab up any reasonably priced EPIs that hit the local CL. My A300s are wonderfully musical and have displaced many vintage speakers that are highly regarded on this board. They sent my last set of ADS packing and are likely to send my KLH 5s down the road as well when I do a proper shootout. I would love to hear the 200s. Definitely update us vs the Polks. There has been a set of 10Bs on CL Ive been eyeing for about a month.

Yeah I never have gotten Huw to respond with stuff either. For the 16uF one in my crossover I ran a 10uF and an 6.2uF Dayton in parallel to get it as close as I could. But yeah, with modern tolerances beating the old sure its well within the design spec. I wouldnt have done a 10uF either just on principle alone lol.

 

[motorcityguy]

That was a really nice write-up of a restoration project, and the quality of the work is superb. The decision to stay with original cap value is a good choice, and the correct foams and new posts are well executed. My only question, and possible disagreement, is that if you have basically bought into the notion of the original design, why would you feel a desire to abandon the switch circuit which was originally included for a specific purpose? And no close-up pics, front or back, to show type and operation of switch? I see people doing this all the time with EPI's, and I know Huw recommends this, but I just don't get it. My early EPI-100's have the original rotary control, and I think it is great to have this feature in order to adjust for varying interior environments.

Thanks for the compliments on my workmanship and strategy! As you requested, I'm posting a picture of the tweeter switch, both front and back. Your question about the tweeter adjustment switch is a very good one, and I'd be happy to explain my thought process. The decision to bypass this feature was not taken lightly, as I am very persnickety about keeping things "stock".

Pragmatic reason: I have heard anecdotal stories claiming that of many of the speakers in this era added a tweeter switch simply as a marketing ploy, for showroom appeal--Not that it didn't do anything, but just that it wasn't really needed. Presumably the "neutral/flat" position represents the intended design position for the tweeter. The switch offers only attenuation of the tweeter (-3db, -6db). Since I have nothing special or unusual with my listening room (living room), I didn't expect to need special attenuation of the tweeter.

More on this point: I am running these things with a variety of mid-to-upper level vintage receivers, all of which have multiple settings on the tone controls (ranging from high boost/cut, to selectable frequency band, to full-blown equalizer). In nearly all cases, I find myself listening to most music in the "neutral/flat" position. So, I really didn't expect to need tweeter attenuation unless they turned out to be unusually "hot".

Lastly, there is the allegation that the switches are troublesome, and offer additional places for signal loss and/or bad connections.

Practical reason: The tweeter switch (and original crossover cap) are on the BACK of the speaker baffle, and up high. You need to stand on your head, and use mirrors to see it, let alone work on it. I had a hell of a time, just getting a photo. Not sure I could have done a nice neat job of installing and soldering the components.

So, that was my strategy. By the way, when I "removed" the switch from the circuit, I did not cut or remove ANYTHING from the switch circuit, including the original 16uF capacitor. In fact, I never even removed the original (thin) wiring. I just clipped it at the binding post, rolled the wire up, and chicken-banded it to the tweeter switch board. So, if someone was so inclined, they could easily reconnect the entire original circuit (or connect the new wiring to the tweeter switch). Thus, if I find the finished product to be in need of a selectable tweeter switch, I do have the option to go back inside and "refurb" the switch circuitry.

By the way, I'm at a loss as to how to fix my pictures so that they do NOT show up upside down or sideways. Argh!

 

[motorcityguy]

Ok, finally got these EPI speakers into my living room, temporarily replacing my beloved Polk 10A's. After listening to a variety of my favorite recordings, here is my conclusion...

They are REALLY nice. Vocals and midrange are great, especially easy listening (Diana Krall, Michael Buble), and early bossa nova (Getz, Gilberto, Jobim). Not sure if I'm using the correct descriptive terms, but the the realism, and separation of instruments was definitely improved over the Polks. However, I found them to be a bit light on bass, to the point where I had to bump the bass tone control up a notch. In contrast, the Polk 10's were always played "flat" and had good solid (but not over powering) bass.

In fairness to the Polks, they are totally original, with NO crossover updates. Based on the way the EPI's responded to new crossover caps, I now intend to refresh the Polks, and repeat the comparison. Stay tuned....