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Equalizer suggestions? Will an EQ really make a significant audio improvement?

Art Vandalay said:
I don't use the tuner. When I had a CD player hooked up, the CDs sounded much better than the records do now. I have a surround sound set up using that tuner, and movies sound fantastic through it (I do get a lot of highs). I just recall that, when I used this same turntable with the Bose 503's I had many years ago, the sound reproduction was much, much better than now.
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If the CD tests and movies are recent, then it's almost certainly the turntable path.

I would compare CD and phono again just to make sure you are "apples to apples" on the AVR sound settings. The synthesized surround modes (e.g. Jazz Club et al) typically sound awful, just plain stereo is usually the best by far for 2-channel music.

If you haven't already, I would run Audyssey with the mic to optimize everything with your room. Then listen to the turntable in both "stereo" and "direct" (which bypasses most processing) modes to determine which sounds best. There is a "manual mode" for the built-in 5-band EQ, but if CD's sound fine, then that would be masking the real problem with the turntable path and EQ surely cannot fully compensate for whatever the problem is.


Functionality excerpts cut & pasted from: https://www.crutchfield.com/S-c7uIlc5eqh0/p_580TXS505B/Onkyo-TX-SR505-Black.html
Direct Mode: This mode delivers pure sound with minimum sound quality adjustment and filtration. The sound recorded for the right and left front channels is output to the right and left front speakers only and not output to the subwoofer, center, or rear speakers.


Listening Modes: This receiver incorporates a wide variety of listening modes to bring you maximum enjoyment from your audio and video software. The listening modes include:

  • Direct: audio from the input source is output directly with minimal processing
  • Stereo: sound is output from the front left and right speakers and subwoofer

Equalizer: The EQ function offers three options:

  • Off: flat response
  • Audyssey: adjusts the frequency response of all speakers to correct the effects of room acoustics, based on measurements taken using the included microphone
  • Manual: the five band equalizer can be adjusted independently for each of the seven full range speaker channels (front, center, surround, and surround back), the EQ bands are centered at 80, 250, 800, 2500, and 8000 Hz (subwoofer EQ bands are centered at 40, 80, and 160 Hz) they are adjustable from -6 to +6 dB in 1 dB increments
 
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sqlsavior said:
Was the tweeter working back then?

To directly answer your question about the equalizer, it can adjust frequency balance, and people do, for various reasons, but it can't restore a damaged signal, nor make up for a missing tweeter.
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Must fix tweeter first ! Like Goodolpg said, replace both of them and they are probably cheap.
 
Agree that the tweeter needs to be fixed, but even with only one tweeter functioning, he should be able to get a feel for sound quality -- assuming the CD still sounds fine when listening in the current state, then it should be easy to see how the turntable sounds in comparison (especially since there is a finite return window for the cartridge/preamp).

OP should be aware that Audyssey is going to give him some pretty funky EQ values in the upper frequencies for the speaker that has the non-functioning tweeter :eek:, those can be manually returned to more normal values after running room EQ.
 
Since the Onkyo is also used for theater, another thing to try would be to temporarily move the surround speakers to the front left and right Onkyo speaker outputs -- then both speakers will be functioning properly and that would eliminate issue with the bad tweeter coloring the test results (and/or any general issues with the 401's).
 
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I use to buy random gear based on reviews before I started writing to you good folks on AK . Given what I know now, I think he should return the cart and the preamp and start over with the help of you smart guys on AK. It is so true that the more you learn the more questions you have that you don't have the answer for.
 
If your lucky you can sometimes find a pair of used speakers for a good price locally.

Parts express has some 2.5" tweeters that might work as replacements for the 2" in the 401's if you can't find the original.

While the Pyle Phono preamp might be OK, IMO if you have the chance I'd exchange it with a Pro-Ject Phono Box MM for $90.

As far as the Ortifon 2M Red cartridge goes, its Bright, Forward sound might actually compliment the somewhat laid back sound of the Bose 401's. With some speakers in a hard room however it might sound brutal. Which might explain the mixed reviews.

This is where an EQ and/or tone controls can help, But they will need to reset when switching back to CD's or other sources.
 
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Morgan D said:
Buy a good phono preamp. A lot of good phono pre's for $200. I don't think they get enough attention. I spent a little and it was glorious!
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My Schiit Mani mkII sounds good to me (better than a Cambridge Audio one that I had before and a NAD before that) and cost less than $200. I would, as someone else suggested make sure that you're cartridge/tonearm is set and aligned correctly as this can have a big impact on the sound.
 
Morgan D said:
Those speakers look like a steal !
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Yes, I assumed being KEF they where the real deal, and maybe they are, but one review I read wasn't as good as I expected. That's why I edited the post.

Kef does make some killer speakers, but like most brands they make others that are just ordinary.
 
What's the latest status?

I'm surprised no one said it yet but the first thing I would do is try a number of records. There is so much variability in record quality that I couldn't believe it when I got back into vinyl. Some albums sound like they were recorded through a pillow. I suggest Steely Dan or Dire Straits, who seem to have only excellent mixes and pressings.

The tweeter can be fixed for $20 with a phillips screwdriver and is a natural first step to improvement.

Your vinyl gear is entry level but there is nothing really wrong with it. I haven't heard it, but from reviews your Ortofon Red is OK. The Kenwood is decent enough. I don't know that Pyle but these are very simple electronics, and I do not think a new phono preamp will improve the sound that dramatically. If you want to see if there will be a difference, just for a test I suggest picking up a black receiver that has phono inputs, also very cheap on Craigslist (maybe even $20 also). Most high-volume Japanese receivers had excellent phono stages. If there's a notable difference maybe then try a better external preamp.

The built in EQ with AVRs is great for room optimization for home theater. For my stereo rig I run an external equalizer. They're pretty cheap and fun to play with. But I don't think either method of EQ is will solve your problem.
 
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Do whatever you want in this life.

Start from the most basic setup and work out.
Make sure the amp is good, controls are clean. Clear signal on both channels via the tuner.
Make sure the wires from the amp are clean copper, properly inserted not frayed or scraggly.
Test each speaker on each channel L/R
If need be do fix the speaker and so on.

EQ's are great when necessary. I usually just use them for the cool visual effects factor. Some recordings can benefit from eq., but it does add a lot of filtering into the signal chain.

EQ would be a low priority for me in hindsight, but when I started in the hobby I bought 3....thus my handle.
 
I sincerely appreciate all of your assistance and suggestions! I bought a pair of $15 tweeters from *bay and they arrive Friday. Once I have installed them, I will go through the Audyssey EQ setup that is built into my Onkyo receiver. If the audio reproduction from records is still flat and dull as it is now, I will have to hold off on any other purchases for it because I lost my job last week.
 
Ouch. Sorry to hear. I hope you quickly find your next job and it is way better than the last.
 
You have to everything possible to correct the issue before using an equalizer. Speakers location in the room relative to the seating position should be optimized first with care to minimize room influences. You can do it by guess and by gosh or you can use test equipment. You will need the test equipment to adjust the correct equalizer chosen any way. It might be a parametric EQ, or a analyzing EQ by Lyngdorf, or a 1/6th or 3rd octave equalizer. Trying to get it right by ear just never gives the best satisfying results.

Now I have known a few professional musicians that come very close by just using their trained ears and a few tricks. Now test equipment can't guarantee that you will like the result. Maybe you want a THX small room X curve as a final result or a B or C curve instead. Maybe you want a different curve for a RCA LP or and another for a Chandos CD or a DGG SACD. But if the initial curve has been well chosen only a slight change with Bass and Treble tone controls will hopefully take care of the different sources.
 
FWIW, I never heard a system that I felt was improved by use of an EQ. The additional circuitry of an EQ always seemed to add a slight element of grunge that caused me to feel that the setup sounded better without it, but it should also be said that most of these EQs were not anything I would call high-end, ie mostly Soundcraftsmen. I do seem to recall a friend long ago who had a preamp/EQ that he was happy with, but it was an expensive unit that operated in the digital domain.

Good luck on the job hunt. I’ve been in that situation many times and sometimes it’s a blessing, although it may not seem so at the time.:beerchug:
 
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