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Erratic motor Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB?

. . . speaking of this thread, and many others: "All audio, no attitude"??? Christ, what a joke. A good healthy portion of the people who bash this TT, and yeah it really *is* obvious who they are, have absolutely no idea what the hell they are talking about because they have never in their lives seen one in person let alone used one. I'll stop here before I betray more "ATTITUDE". (I really hope this place, which I so much enjoy visiting on my weekends, Doesn't slowly turn into the Fremer-boards.)

~Dave
 
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se7enMMBsg said:
. . . speaking of this thread, and many others: "All audio, no attitude"??? Christ, what a joke. A good healthy portion of the people who bash this TT, and yeah it really *is* obvious who they are, have absolutely no idea what the hell they are talking about because they have never in their lives seen one in person let alone used one. I'll stop here before I betray more "ATTITUDE". (I really hope this place, which I so much enjoy visiting on my weekends, Doesn't slowly turn into the Fremer-boards.)

~Dave
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I haven't seen one, but I know how to read a spec sheet. The AT-LP120-USB has a wow and flutter specification of 0.2% WRMS. For many listeners including me, that's high enough to be audibly irritating. Considering that manufacturers in the 1970s routinely built turntables with wow and flutter specs of 0.1% or less -- including their budget models -- I truly think that Audio-Technica should be able to do better than they did on the LP120 without making the thing unaffordable.
 
Regarding the unstable motor movement when the platter isn't on.

That is totally normal for a direct drive motor. The platter acts as a flyheel and it's intertia smooths out the pulses that the motor coils deliver. The term is called "cogging".
 
The culprit: Cogging! (Answered)

Jon_Logan said:
Regarding the unstable motor movement when the platter isn't on.

That is totally normal for a direct drive motor. The platter acts as a flyheel and it's intertia smooths out the pulses that the motor coils deliver. The term is called "cogging".
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Ha, I was actually logging on here to try to put this thread to rest with the last chapter of my story! That's really interesting. I'll have to look into that. So what would have been broken/not working right that allowed that much vibration to get to the stylus? Is it a part that is likely to be damaged in shipping?

Anyway, for anyone who gets one of these from Amazon with this problem, the return was a snap. They picked it up the very next day and I didn't even have to print a UPS label. Refund went through today and nobody ever questioned me about it, even though the packaging they had used was on its last leg.

Thanks Jon!
Mike
 
Dr Tinear said:
I haven't seen one, but I know how to read a spec sheet. The AT-LP120-USB has a wow and flutter specification of 0.2% WRMS. For many listeners including me, that's high enough to be audibly irritating. Considering that manufacturers in the 1970s routinely built turntables with wow and flutter specs of 0.1% or less -- including their budget models -- I truly think that Audio-Technica should be able to do better than they did on the LP120 without making the thing unaffordable.
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. . . I also know how to read a spec sheet, and AT does themselves a great disservice by not stating that those specs are based on the built in internal pre-amp. Bypassing the built in pre this deck is as quiet, musical and resolving as 2 out of my three vintage decks. And it's not wishful self-deluding thinking because of the cash outlay, because there was zero cash outlay on my part. My dear wife, Denise, bought me this deck as x-mas gift when I already had the "Sony-PSX5" and the "MCS6602", both in perfect working order. She bought it for me because I evidently happened to mention my wish for one solid reasonably priced new deck to put in rotation. As ungrateful as this will unfortunately sound I was not exactly overwhelmed with joy when I opened it up and saw what it was - I guess I must have been "biased" for some reason in spite of the overwhelmingly positive reviews on sites such as Amazon and in the press - of course I acted as happy as can be outwardly as I simply Don't have it in me to intentionally hurt her feelings.
Funny thing is: within a month I really WAS as happy as can be with this deck. **** canning that useless felt mat and a moderate cartridge upgrade along with a decent "pre" and the thing is just short of amazing for the money.

~Ah,well,
David
 
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se7enMMBsg said:
. . . I also know how to read a spec sheet, and AT does themselves a great disservice by not stating that those specs are based on the built in internal pre-amp. Bypassing the built in pre this deck is as quiet, musical and resolving as 2 out of my three vintage decks. And it's not wishful self-deluding thinking because of the cash outlay, because there was zero cash outlay on my part. My dear wife, Denise, bought me this deck as x-mas gift when I already had the "Sony-PSX5" and the "MCS6602", both in perfect working order. She bought it for me because I evidently happened to mention my wish for one solid reasonably priced new deck to put in rotation. As ungrateful as this will unfortunately sound I was not exactly overwhelmed with joy when I opened it up and saw what it was - I guess I must have been "biased" for some reason in spite of the overwhelmingly positive reviews on sites such as Amazon and in the press - of course I acted as happy as can be outwardly as I simply Don't have it in me to intentionally hurt her feelings.
Funny thing is: within a month I really WAS as happy as can be with this deck. **** canning that useless felt mat and a moderate cartridge upgrade along with a decent "pre" and thing is just short of amazing for the money.

~Ah,well,
David
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I'm confused. What does wow and flutter have to do with the preamp? Last I checked, it was a performance characteristic of the drive system.

If you're happy with the sound of the AT, that's great; I hope it serves you long and well. My sensitivity to flutter is higher than average, so I suspect that I would not find it as musically satisfying as you do. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
 
splendidmike said:
Ha, I was actually logging on here to try to put this thread to rest with the last chapter of my story! That's really interesting. I'll have to look into that. So what would have been broken/not working right that allowed that much vibration to get to the stylus? Is it a part that is likely to be damaged in shipping?

Anyway, for anyone who gets one of these from Amazon with this problem, the return was a snap. They picked it up the very next day and I didn't even have to print a UPS label. Refund went through today and nobody ever questioned me about it, even though the packaging they had used was on its last leg.

Thanks Jon!
Mike
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Now, cogging is normal, but pulses picked up through the system is not. It could be that there are multiple drivers (basically power amps) that drive the coils. There could be 2 drivers and six coils where each driver drives 3 coils in series/parallel or whatever. What Audio Technica does my be different. I've seen where a turntable can still turn, but does it roughly because of the loss of a drive. This could couple mechanically through the system and be picked up by the stylus. This might be caused by broken/cracked solder connections suffered in transport, etc. If it's new, get the RMA. That sounds like it's already been done. I doubt it would be such a blatent design flaw. Even if it turns out to be a design flaw and happens on all of them, you can get your money back. That would fall under minimum standards not met kind of a thing.
 
. . . wow/flutter has nothing to do with the pre; my mistake in the writing/wording. I'll likely change no one's bias about this deck, okay fine. - (and yeah, of course people have owned this deck and not liked it . . . like any *other* deck no matter the cost) - but the ridiculous bashing of this deck here by more than a few people who have no actual experience with it is just that: ridiculous.

~Peace,
Dave
 
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se7enMMBsg said:
. A good healthy portion of the people who bash this TT.....have absolutely no idea what the hell they are talking about because they have never in their lives seen one in person let alone used one.
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You're probably right.

However I lived with one for nearly two months so I feel quite confident when i say it's crap. :D
 
The Gemini decks are not much better, either....I know...I have one....unfortunately. :tears::tears:
 
Splendidmike - my comments were not directed at you. You had a legit problem. And AT seems to too - at least with QC? My comments were/are aimed at the flame throwers about this TT. I do hope you notified AT so they can log issue?

I feel very lucky that I got a good one and was hoping that you could too :)

It's not easy to find a new TT that will stand up to headshell swapping and spin 78's right out of the box. I own quite a few "vintage" tables and they have their own reason for being, but day-in and day-out use with used vinyl preview and spinning 78's with different cartridges are not features/actions available or easy to accomplish.

If I bust my AT I can make a value judgment about getting it fixed. There are spares in the pipeline. If I mess up the arm on the JVC QL Y-5-F (magneto balanced), there is likely no place to go. So it gets tampered with very little.

It seemed to me that this was a tool to have in your kit? Not the be-all end of the journey TT. But, if they are having serious and flagrant Q/A - Q/C issues with a high percentage of their product, they need to know about it.

Rather than flaming a product, it might be more helpful for members to report problems (forums do have power) and see if they get addressed? Maybe, just maybe we can make a small improvement in the world :yes:
 
I guess it couldn't do any harm to let AT know about the problems with their recently mfg TTs. On the other hand if I was a company like AT and selling my products in big box stores and Amazon and trying to compete with other companies and have the lowest price something will have to be sacraficed to stay competitive. Most of the consumers of products like this are not looking at any type of long term use and are now accustomed to electronics being obsolete within a year. It's in a class of throw aways that arn't worth fixing either by the mfg or the owner.
 
I have an AT turntable, a PL120, the pre-USB model. No doubt about it, some PL-120s can tax and frustrate their new owners. And yet, some do not. These SL-1200-ish clones are seductive in ways that certain other turntables are not. At least in my case that is what raised frustration levels a few extra notches when mine showed a new downside. Several times I came close to kicking it back into it's box and then tossing it through the door of the local GW store, then speeding away before someone could protest that they don't accept junk like that. I have a long review over at Amazon in the AT-PL120 one-star section if anyone REALLY wants to know what I'd still criticize about the machine, and if anybody wants to read a few discoveries that may help their living with one of these turntables.

Over the past year I have (a) taken a stab at tightening loose-from-new tonearm bearings, and (b) discovering a tonearm signal wire repositioning scheme below the tonearm, which together allow me to now play an LP side the whole way through with correct imaging. After that the remaining bug-a-boo was how the tonearm would at times drift toward the center of the record when I lifted it at the end of a record with the cueing lever. It seems that the very slippery bead of plastic on the lift bar which raises and lowers the tonearm has a a slight rise at it's outer end exactly where the tonearm would rest coming out of a runout groove. As this drifting only occurred when lifting at the end of a record I am assuming the slippery molded-in rise on the lift bar is the cause for that "feature". The PL120 sounds pretty nice with a cartridge it likes, though it hates Grados and lately my Shure M95 with tiny grounding strap installed (hum!).

It has been several months where nothing newly untoward has popped up with my PL120. So far the ownership experience has been an adventure. Frankly, I would have been happier with a trouble-free experience after buying it. From reading buyer reviews on the "PL" and "LP" 120 models it seems that the LP-120USB gets fewer bad marks than the older PL-120.

Before buying, be informed.
 
Hey BrocLuno - no, we're cool! I was just kind of commenting on the fact that this thread has gotten off topic, and that I wasn't trying to start a thread about whether or not the LP120 is a crappy turntable. Obviously my problem is not common.
BrocLuno said:
I do hope you notified AT so they can log issue?
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Err, actually no. I have to say, I was kind of assuming that Amazon would return this to AT for a credit and that AT would be "notified" that way. Call me lazy, but I feel like I did my public service duty by starting this thread. I would assume that consumer electronic companies' product managers have Google Alerts set up to notify them of new mentions on the interwebs about their products. Audiokarma seems to index pretty well on search engines...my rationale would be that they'd have more incentive to investigate it if I'm posting publicly about a problem I had with their table. But...again that could just be me justifying feeling a little lazy about contacting AT after I've already gotten my money back.
 
Remember the demographic

I am new to the forum. So let me just jump in here. These are not technics turntables and are not designed for us. What I considered a dj in the 70s is very different in todays time. The at lp 120 has a switch back induction drive, not a linear drive like the technics. The modern dj wants torque and switch back is one way of providing it. Remember they are designing for the dj not us. So first off the platter is light for quick start and stop, so rumble is a side effect. If you make the platter heavy enough to keep it in proper motion to prevent this rumble you loose the quick start and stop. I have one of these and if I use a technics 1/4 mat it will run smoother and quieter. On this turntable the height is set for a 6mm mat but only comes with a 2mm mat. So you have to lower the tone arm -0 to -1.5 mm or so to level the tone arm. You might also want to cut out the pre amp. It has a bothersome gaiting circuit and crappy shielding. The technics were designed so that every part of it had a important function. Straight arm dj turntables don't sound bad at all . There is a 3 db difference between it and a proper S arm. This isn't much for rock and pop music and I am hard pressed to tell the two apart. Now for all the pro j ect music hall and rega folk they are made in China also. Rega parts made in China assembled in England.
 
Downright silly?

arcorob said:
All he has to do is get it exchanged. Even the best companies ship a clunker once in a while.

The new table should not have azimuth or motor issues. Period. and the many people who enjoy theirs will attest to that.

Its really pretty pissy when people have to bash and say get a better one. He got the one he has for a reason, it arrived defective, amazon will replace asap, case closed.
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That post is a touch under 3 years old, Rob!
 
yoro70 pretty much explained the intended purpose/design of the AT LP-120. Unlike the Technics SL-1200Mk2 which was a high quality consumer turntable that was adopted by professional DJs in fixed locations, clubs/discos, the AT LP-120 is basically for todays scratch/rap house party DJs. I wouldn't be surprised that Music Hall/Project/Rega parts are sourced from China. All the more reason to take a very close look at the U-Turn turntable which uses USA mfg parts and is assembled in the USA, makes the low selling price even more amazing for this level of quality.
 
I just got an AT LP120 at a bargain price and I do hear a bit of the engine spinning through my speakers. Still it is barely audible and I was thinking that maybe by some small tweaks I can make it go away completely.

1. What mat should I get to cut this interference?
2. Did anyone try to oil their AT LP120?

I know it's a silly question but I've heard some people saying that by removing the pre-amp board, this issue is diminished. Could that be true?
 
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