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ESS AMT3 Heil Sickness-Continuing Saga Of Changes And Improvements

Sealing the Port-Success!!

I took a couple of roughly 3 1/2" x 6" covulted foam-rolled them up, and stuck them in both ports in my first set. While I need to do some more extensive listening-this seems to have smoothed out a slight peak around 35-37 hz, clean up the midbass considerably (as Chef mentioned) and deepened the response as well.
I installed the stock woofers back in one pair-leaving the port open and did some comparison-and the original voicing is now virtually indentical to the OE speakers-however the bass is much cleaner and deeper, with some added detail. The increased smoothness is quite noticable over the ported 1040SF's
Male voices are now identical with the O.E. woofers (one thing I really appreciated about the stock woofers) no hint of coloration or deeper than reality in their tone (chesty-ness).
Plugging the port in the OE woofer speaker dropped the woofer output down too much.
The 1040Sf speaker loses some output (but mainly around the port tuning range-which was throwing off the balance), but the gains deeper and cleaner bass-and the 1040 SF woofer has enough output or "drive" to deal well with the port being plugged with the foam. You lose some efficiency as well-and have to move the volume control up slightly-but luckily I have plenty of power on tap.
The 1040SF still has enough output and efficiency with the blocked port not to get left behind by the Heil or tranisiton driver.
ESS made both models, ported and not-I'm not sure if there was a change in the woofers (porbably not). The 1040SF specs put it more or less in the middle of being able to work well in a ported or sealed enclousre-and the 9mm Xmax should be helpful as well. In this configuration-at least from limited listening-the 1040SF's work better with the AMT3 port blocked (if you have a ported enclosure).
I'm pretty pleased with the results so far. I tried this earlier last year with some old socks-but at the time I realized I had one woofer out of phase (it happens-after swaping the OE and 1040SF's in and out time after time-late nights and bleary eyes!:thmbsp:-and never got back to trying it.
I'm going to hold off on the Sonic Barrier for now-45 days to return it-but I think I finally got the right balance I was looking for- a slight increase in bass output over the OE woofers-cleaner and deeper bass-without loosing the ideal voicing of the OE configuration in the male voice region
I may add the baffle brace to this pair as well-as I have extra wood, screws and glue-and then leave well enough alone.
My second 'super set' (custom crossover)-I will probably block the port as well-this should be interesting with a slightly more efficienct crossover-and the Alpha 6A transitions drivers I plan to use. I also plan to install a Lpad on the Alpha just in case I need to adjust the balance. It's realitively cheap-and might as well do it up front.
Regardless if I don't need it-I will just put dial it on max-and it's out of the circuit anyway. I think I will install the l-pad either on the top rear, or on the back panel on the upper portion. I like the idea of putting it on the top-so you can't see it with the grills on.
In a nut shell-this first set has a recapped/rewired crossover, sealed and strengthened cabinet seams and woofer sealing sufaces-hurricane nuts, P.E. gasket tape, stock stuffing with one piece of 1 1/2" convulted foam covering the back panel, foam block blocking each side of the Heil, 1040SF woofers, and a foam blocked port.
It's always a crap shoot of sorts when you are replacing a O.E. woofer, even if the specs are close-they will behave differently in most instances, and require some fine tuning. Taking some time to listen is helpful, and changing one thing at a time as well.
This was more or less what I have been dealing with with the 1040Sf's vs the stock woofers-the increased bass output of the 1040Sf''s was a welcome addition, but the loss of the O.E. clarity in the male voice region was disapointing IMHO. The blocking of the port has solved this-with the added benefit of cleaning and extending the deep bass.
Of course, you results may vary, as the ported 1040Sf, and O.E. woofers ported configuration each sounds very good-this is more of a critical fine tuning, and perhaps one of taste. Of course none of this changes the value of speaker placement, room configuration and driving equipment, as these all play a equally important parts as well.
 
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Fixing Up My AMT-3's

I am the original owner of a pair of AMT-3 Rock Monitors with the port. I have seen some that do not have a port. I ordered 4 new 10 inch woofers from ESS and a friend of mine is working on the new woofer install. Do you know much about the new ESS woofers and how they compare with the originals or other manufacturer replacements? My brother had used these for a while and had replaced all 4 original woofers with PYLE woofers instead of giving the old ones a new refoaming. The originals were discarded. (WTF??)

-Joe in Houston-
 
I am the original owner of a pair of AMT-3 Rock Monitors with the port. I have seen some that do not have a port. I ordered 4 new 10 inch woofers from ESS and a friend of mine is working on the new woofer install. Do you know much about the new ESS woofers and how they compare with the originals or other manufacturer replacements? My brother had used these for a while and had replaced all 4 original woofers with PYLE woofers instead of giving the old ones a new refoaming. The originals were discarded. (WTF??)

-Joe in Houston-

I'm sure the woofers will work just fine, but you will have to perhaps work with the cutouts since the AMT3's used round cutouts vs the semi truncated one ESS used later. I'm sure the have similiar specs to the OE's so they should be fine.
I kept my O.E.'s (too bad about what your brother did-seems another few memebers have had Pyles installed-some seem to like them).
Lot's of people cannabilze these speaker for the AMT Heils-a sad thing.
I bet the ESS woofers will be the closest to the O.E> sound your original AMT3's woofers had-a good thing.
I like the sound of both woofers, and really hard to say which is "better".
To get the Eminence 1040SF's (OCS had these made in particuliar as a ESS AMT replacement-before ESS started making woofers again) to sound the way I wanted- and as mentioned in particuliar in the male voice region (one thing I personally measure a speaker by-that it reproduces voices accuratley) I needed to plug the port. I went back and forth with O.E. and 1040's as I liked the 1040's increased output, but liked the O.E. over all smooth balance with the other drivers. I also played around with different port lengths, calculated the 1040's need a single port around 3.8"- a definate improvement, but still not were I wanted them.
As mentioned I tried plugging the port earlier, but at the same time had one woofer hooked up backwards (it happens) delt with that and kind of forgot trying the port plugging (twin 3 1/2 year old girls and a business to run-things happen).
It finally dawned on me to try it again-and I'm glad I did, as this was what I was looking for, and the balance and smoothness of the O.E. woofers emerged with the 1040SF's, along with cleaner and audibly deeper bass. It was really amazing, and I must have listen to them-with a bunch of diiferent tracks and sources for a good couple hours, and I just thought-this is what a modern AMT3 would sound like-added a little cleaner a deepr bass, and not losing any of the wonderful balance, tonal purity and detail that AMT3's onwers know and appreciate.
I'm thinking with up to date mathods and material, those ESS woofers should have similair results, and I would have tried them if they were available at the time I was looking for O.E. alternatives.
Menber Artifact had excellent results with the new woofers, anlong with a cabinet upgrade and crossover rebuils/rewire.
Something I would recommend as well. A complete cabinet sealing, stabilze the woofer mounting surface with Epoxy-use some P.E. Hurricane Nuts and speaker gasket material to mount the new woofers, and a recap/reresistor as well. It make quite a improvement to get the crossover back in spec, plus you can gain some efficiency as well-all good things.
By the way-nice to see a original AMT3 owner all the way back to the 70's. Really a great testimate to how wonderful these speakers are.
Fill us in on your thought of the new woofers, as this will be the first I have heard installed in a AMT3.
 
I just got done installing a Zobel network on the 1040SFs. First impression is taming down of the slight mid bass bump these woofers can exhibit with some recordings.
 
<snip>

I bet the ESS woofers will be the closest to the O.E. sound your original AMT3's woofers had - a good thing.

I like the sound of both woofers, and really hard to say which is "better".
To get the Eminence 1040SF's (OCS had these made in particular as an ESS AMT replacement - before ESS started making woofers again)

<snip>

I'm glad to hear you say you would think the OE's can get it done as compared to any of the available equivalents, i fully agree! By the way, ESS has never made their own woofers and still aren't.
 
The biggest improvements in my experience, aside form getting the crossover back in spec (and checking all wire connections/solder joints etc) are realized with the AMT3's by properly sealing the cabinet, and drivers-the midtube as well-(making sure you have all the proper dampening material as well) and blocking of the sides of the Heils-to prevent midrange cancellation-improving the midbass and imaging. Just basic stuff-no designer caps-silver wire-pixy dust-etc. No need to re-egineer.

Some of this does not make sense to be me (blocking of the sides of the Heils-to prevent midrange cancellation) because the backside of the Heil driver is not 'pushing out of phase' compared to the front side the sound is being squeesed simultaneously out of different pleats in the front and back as opposed to a speaker cone that is moving back and forth.
 
l hope this is not impolite, but I'm selling four AMT-3 woofers elsewhere on this site if anyone is interested:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=435894

Please ask any questions on the "Barter Town" thread and not this discussion thread. Sorry for the imposition, but I would like to see them put to good use. People have been contacting me to use them in generic speaker projects, not ESS. Thanks.
 
Some of this does not make sense to be me (blocking of the sides of the Heils-to prevent midrange cancellation) because the backside of the Heil driver is not 'pushing out of phase' compared to the front side the sound is being squeesed simultaneously out of different pleats in the front and back as opposed to a speaker cone that is moving back and forth.

The waves aren't out of phase per se, but the wrapping around of the sound waves causes some interference with the transition driver, especially around the crossover region, and does cause some muddying and cancellation in this critical region. The sound waves are delayed, and reflected by the housing.
Reducing any type of cabinet/baffle reflections usually results in improved and more coherent sound.
This applies only to the 3-way AMT3 in particular. Your AMT1b's might not see much of a improvement-but who knows-the 2 way's need help in the mid bass/midrange region so IMHO it might me worth a try.
Some of this may be due the to generous driver overlaps, and gradual crossover slopes-but it is plainly audible to even a semi 'trained' ear.
The results speak for themselves IMHO, as the mid bass is noticeably cleaner and defined, and actually increases in level, and this fact, to me any how suggests partial cancellation in this region.
I won't go back to a non blocked Heil on either pair of my AMT3's.
 
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l hope this is not impolite, but I'm selling four AMT-3 woofers elsewhere on this site if anyone is interested:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=435894

Please ask any questions on the "Barter Town" thread and not this discussion thread. Sorry for the imposition, but I would like to see them put to good use. People have been contacting me to use them in generic speaker projects, not ESS. Thanks.

No problems-they need to be used in AMT3's or ESS speakers with paper cone woofers-that's where they would shine.
So are you parting out your speakers-or using a different woofer?
Seems like you went to a lot of trouble refoaming those just to sell them.
If your going to part them out- I would personally sell the speakers as they are, instead of parting them out-as IMHo it's a shame to cannabilize them.
I'm using different woofers in my, but holding on to the stock-so when I pass on-who ever has them will still have all the o.e. stuff.
 
The Heil's front and back waves are indeed out of phase-- it's a dipole, not at all like the depiction as an accordion bellows that's so common.

Having said that, it's not a very good dipole, as can be seen in the polar graph Gramophone obtained back in '75 when they tested the amt-1. Imagine a figure-8 that's put on weight. Still, there's the possibility of cancellation near the bottom of the Heil's range, and it's easy to prevent, so why not.
 
No problems-they need to be used in AMT3's or ESS speakers with paper cone woofers-that's where they would shine.
So are you parting out your speakers-or using a different woofer?
Seems like you went to a lot of trouble refoaming those just to sell them.
If your going to part them out- I would personally sell the speakers as they are, instead of parting them out-as IMHo it's a shame to cannabilize them.
I'm using different woofers in my, but holding on to the stock-so when I pass on-who ever has them will still have all the o.e. stuff.

I "upgraded" to the Eminence 1040sf, expecting big things. Unfortunately, I hear no difference at all, even when I played the two side-by-side. Since the Eminence woofers are already in place, I guess I'll sell the ESS.
 
While I'm here, I have a question regarding blocking the rear of the Heil.

Doesn't that affect their sound stage? Back in the day, one AMT selling point was that the rear AMT output reflects off the wall and gives a broader wall of sound instead of a point source. I swear that is what I hear - but I'm getting old, ya know.
 
I "upgraded" to the Eminence 1040sf, expecting big things. Unfortunately, I hear no difference at all, even when I played the two side-by-side. Since the Eminence woofers are already in place, I guess I'll sell the ESS.
That's strange. I've done that woofer swap and the difference in low frequency response was substantial. I have rebuilt my crossovers with polypropelyne caps and audio grade resistors and also added a Zobel network to the low frequency section of the crossover to tame a bit of a mid bass bump that the 1040SFs had.
 
While I'm here, I have a question regarding blocking the rear of the Heil.

Doesn't that affect their sound stage? Back in the day, one AMT selling point was that the rear AMT output reflects off the wall and gives a broader wall of sound instead of a point source. I swear that is what I hear - but I'm getting old, ya know.

Don't block the rear or side openings, only the sides in front like this:
 

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Don't block the rear or side openings, only the sides in front like this:

Exactly!
I too made the mistake of blocking the side windows-and it killed the air.
As mentioned-block only the front-not the rear.
Interesting that you hear no difference with the 1040SF's-they do take 20+ hours to really break in. Perhaps you have some cabinet leaks. I would also rebuild the crossover-as the old caps are surely out of spec.
Are you sure you have the correct phase/polarity on the woofers/mids and Heils. I goofed on one speaker, and didn't realize it right away. If they don't sound different-really-something isn't totally right.
The difference was night and day for me. The bass will slap you right in the chest-unlike the stock woofers.
The Zobel is helpful with the 1040SF's, as after break in there is a bit of a midbass hump. The stock 4 ohm woofer models also used a Zobel.
Adding a larger port would also be helpful-but they seem to work suprisingly well with the stock port. Madisound has a nice free speaker calculator you can enter all the specs and find the ideal port-which is probably 2x 3 inch x 7 inch ports.
I have also had good luck with another driver-which will be part of my SUPER AMT build thread. This driver definitley needs the 2 x 3inch ports, plus baffle bracing. It has a very flat (+- 3 db)response to 42hz (tuning) and rolls of smoothly to about 34 hz in the stock volume cabinet with the twin ports. Very clean but not lean response. The rear ports also prevent you from hearing extra low level midbass.midrange "garbage" that most front port speakers have. It doesn't need a Zobel.
The 1040Sf sound very muck like the stock woofers-but with more bass output-while these drivers have a much cleaner and faster transient response-and so far a great match for the Heil.
The stock volume of the AMT enclosure is almost a exact ideal volume for these drivers. They do need cabinet upgrades to work properly-as mentioned the 2 x 3 inch (6.2 inch long in this case) ports and baffle bracing, and the addition of some foam damping sheets.
In part, I was looking for a woofer that could deal well with the stock crossover values-and avoid using a Zobel on the woofer circuit.
Nothing wrong with a Zobel-but this was just my personal preference. I wanted to optimize efficiency/low ESR and bass/midbass distortion. And it has seemed to work!!
 
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The Heil's front and back waves are indeed out of phase-- it's a dipole, not at all like the depiction as an accordion bellows that's so common.

Having said that, it's not a very good dipole, as can be seen in the polar graph Gramophone obtained back in '75 when they tested the amt-1. Imagine a figure-8 that's put on weight. Still, there's the possibility of cancellation near the bottom of the Heil's range, and it's easy to prevent, so why not.

I have seen different graphs then this-that are closer to a figure 8, i.e High Fidelity for one during the same period.
Regardless the Great Heil has some other advantages over other dipole drivers-IMHO the dipole quality is a bonus.
For example, no other driver I have heard can match the dynamics and tonal correctness of a piano solo like the Heil.
 
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automojo said:
1 ) I have seen different graphs .. that are closer to a figure 8, i.e High Fidelity for one, during the same period.

2 ) IMHO the dipole quality is a bonus.

1 ) I looked for quite a while yesterday to find you guys a figure-8-looking polar graph. Even ESS' own polar looks more like a cardioid (which is an omni plus a figure-8). If you found a polar showing a nicely pinched-waist figure-8 online, please let me know where it is. I don't think I've ever seen a really good one for the Heil.

2 ) You are so right. This is one of the reasons I enjoy my little Radio Shack Linaeum dipole speakers. Or my Monsoon computer speakers. So yeah, ideally you wouldn't want to muffle the backwave of the Heil, even though ESS itself did this often enough to be maddening.
 
I had a pair of monopole PS1220's. Very nice speakers, and the smaller Heil was superior to most high frequency drivers- but the Great Heil and it's additional airy response and wider soundstage make it superior IMHO.
 
Yes, the monopole Heils are perfectly okay, as are the monopole Linaeums, but once again I agree strongly that the dipole is the thing that swings. And it doesn't even have to be the Great Heil. The Littlest Heil dipole is very effective too. In my opinion, of course.
 
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