ESS Experts - Crossover Question
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chicks
Lunatic Member
It's on the ESS list over on TAC: http://www.audiocircuit.com/Home-Audio/ESS
From 1977, after Nelson Pass' tenure there, I think.
From 1977, after Nelson Pass' tenure there, I think.
Boto
Curmudgeon In Training
That logo on the bottom right does match. I wonder what they went to? Possibly with the Transars?Pretty sure. ESS was located in Sacramento, this box was made there, too.
sebrof
Super Member
2 of their current models cross over at 800Hz, the AMT Limited Edition and the LD-10LR.
The Limited Edition looks a lot like one of their old models to me.
Click on "More Information Click Here"
http://www.essspeakersusa.com/Products.html
FWIW - I'm currently building a pair of speakers with an Altec 416 woofer and a Great Heil with the Heil crossed at 1,000 Hz 3rd order.
Pic is of the temporary cabinets (Man I wish I knew how to woodwork, I'd have these in proper cabinets by now)
The Limited Edition looks a lot like one of their old models to me.
Click on "More Information Click Here"
http://www.essspeakersusa.com/Products.html
FWIW - I'm currently building a pair of speakers with an Altec 416 woofer and a Great Heil with the Heil crossed at 1,000 Hz 3rd order.
Pic is of the temporary cabinets (Man I wish I knew how to woodwork, I'd have these in proper cabinets by now)
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sebrof
Super Member
Cool! You sure you don't want to bi-amp those?
I do want to biamp them but I haven't tried yet. I've used a 2A3 amp and a Yamaha R-2000 receiver but not at the same time. I'm busy just getting the speakers tuned to where they sound good.
I guess the Yamaha on the woofer and the SET on the Heil, but I'd need some serious attenuation on the woofer because 150 watts and 3 watts.
I won't do any of that until I get them in good cabinets though.
As far as I know-this was made for the 2-way AMT speakers w/the Great Heil.
ESS also made a nice 2 channel amp you could pair a pair of these up to.
Too bad they didn't make one for the 3-way AMT3.....
The Altec setup looks nice.
Just a suggestion, you may want to think about using a transition driver with the Heil, as the 1k crossover point was the source of some dissatisfaction with the original AMT's.
IMHO they still sound pretty good- but the AMT3 setup, and crossover points-crossing over to the mid/transition driver @ 500hz, and crossing over to the Heil @ around 2500hz.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=5593050&postcount=9
The Eminence Alpha 6A would be a good choice IMHO for the transition driver.
You could make a small mid-box that fits between the Heil and Altec-more wood work though.
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/more-info/290-400-eminence-alpha-6a-more-info.pdf
I would use a L-Pad on the Alpha
ESS also made a nice 2 channel amp you could pair a pair of these up to.
Too bad they didn't make one for the 3-way AMT3.....
The Altec setup looks nice.
Just a suggestion, you may want to think about using a transition driver with the Heil, as the 1k crossover point was the source of some dissatisfaction with the original AMT's.
IMHO they still sound pretty good- but the AMT3 setup, and crossover points-crossing over to the mid/transition driver @ 500hz, and crossing over to the Heil @ around 2500hz.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=5593050&postcount=9
The Eminence Alpha 6A would be a good choice IMHO for the transition driver.
You could make a small mid-box that fits between the Heil and Altec-more wood work though.
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/more-info/290-400-eminence-alpha-6a-more-info.pdf
I would use a L-Pad on the Alpha
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Do yourself a favor and stick a midrange, cone or horn, in between the Heil and woof. The Heil is just too thin sounding from 800hz to 5khz. I am going by experience with my speaker and my ear.
As far as the AMT3 crossover points go, the drivers have some generous overlap, so you want a transition driver that is efficient, and low distortion.
Some like them up higher, but I imagine they haven't played with the AMT3 crossover (3 coil) setup. The AMT Heil can sound very good in the 2500 range if you use the right driver-low distortion smooth, non-peaky response.
The Eminence ALPHA ^A actually works very well, and a bargain @ $44ea.
The Aurasound NS^ 255 8a also works very well, and a steal @$9 ea. It will actually handle way more power then the conservative rating suggest.
It ups the mid-bass clarity and punch. A high efficiency AMT3 like crossover with larger gauge/ low ESR inductor coils and low ESR caps really take advantage of what this driver can do-same goes for the Alpha 6A.
Some like them up higher, but I imagine they haven't played with the AMT3 crossover (3 coil) setup. The AMT Heil can sound very good in the 2500 range if you use the right driver-low distortion smooth, non-peaky response.
The Eminence ALPHA ^A actually works very well, and a bargain @ $44ea.
The Aurasound NS^ 255 8a also works very well, and a steal @$9 ea. It will actually handle way more power then the conservative rating suggest.
It ups the mid-bass clarity and punch. A high efficiency AMT3 like crossover with larger gauge/ low ESR inductor coils and low ESR caps really take advantage of what this driver can do-same goes for the Alpha 6A.
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I am thinking of getting an ESS series Eclipse 2241 crossover to use with my ESS Heil Elite speakers. I am running these speakers with Altec 891a’s. The Altec’s are 86db and I think I could blend the Heil better if it was backed off a bit. I am wondering if I used the ESS crossover and bi-amped would I have control of the relative volumes of the two speakers by using the Base Equalization?
ron-c
Addicted Member
This crossover was made to use with the AMT1 Monitor speakers. you could also use it with any AMT1 pyramid style but you will have to bypass the internal crossover and of course use two stereo amps.
The Heil is very efficient so a smaller amp can be used on top.
thanks,
Ron-C
The Heil is very efficient so a smaller amp can be used on top.
thanks,
Ron-C
You’ve just said a mouth full of stuff that could make a guy feel a little defensive. There are reasons beyond being an eccentric, wealthy collector that can stimulate interest in these crossover units. As far as the ADS C2000 and how it could be used with my 1230s I have yet to understand how the 3 way crossover is designed. Some say the circuits are not fully disengaged when the switch in the back of the speaker is set for bi-amping. I am still interested in a C2000 and regret not purchasing one when I had the $400 and opportunity. Both the ADS and ESS fit with my vintage gear and I like the esthetic. I believe in function over form for the most part but I want both. The Heil Elite sitting on the Altec 891a with both in mint condition is a beautiful sight and I believe may give your AMT-3’s a run. I can get the ESS crossover for $150 which works for me. For amplifiers I can use my Eico hf-87 and my Dynaco ST-70 for power. Now I am sounding like an eccentric collector. Well it is what it is. I hope to be wealthy also but I am still working on that. As far as the great Heil performance, I am aware of its ability to reach down to midrange tones. This is not about the crossover part as much as getting the balance between a very efficient 4ohm speaker and a relatively inefficient 8 ohm speaker.
It occurs to me that we all must be audio collectors of sorts and a little bit eccentric to be members of this fantastic forum. Congrats to those of us who are wealthy. If I where I would probably have sheet rock on my walls and acoustic panels rather than just the fiberglass insulation covered by tarp. I might also run a Pathos instead of my Eico but I doubt it would sound much different. I can really dream! I would live in the Seattle Space Needle and have a tram that ran down to my yacht moored out on Eliot Bay. And Porkloin you would be invited over for barbecue. Since that will not be likely, you are still invited for barbecue at my current home.
Maybe I’m a bit touchy today. PMS? OK…..I’m Done!
It occurs to me that we all must be audio collectors of sorts and a little bit eccentric to be members of this fantastic forum. Congrats to those of us who are wealthy. If I where I would probably have sheet rock on my walls and acoustic panels rather than just the fiberglass insulation covered by tarp. I might also run a Pathos instead of my Eico but I doubt it would sound much different. I can really dream! I would live in the Seattle Space Needle and have a tram that ran down to my yacht moored out on Eliot Bay. And Porkloin you would be invited over for barbecue. Since that will not be likely, you are still invited for barbecue at my current home.
Maybe I’m a bit touchy today. PMS? OK…..I’m Done!
SleeperSupra
Super Member
Nice crossover.
Porkloin
Oscar Heil Groupie
$150 for the Eclipse is perfectly reasonable. It's pretty much the same price and function as a second hand Rane active crossover, but it makes a better show piece. C2000s, when you can find them, go for well over a thousand, and for that, you could a DBX or Behringer controller that can shape pretty much everything (crossover points, levels, phase, equalization) between the preamp and power amps, plus an additional amp or two. It becomes a choice between form and function at that price point. If digital is too creepy, one could save more money with analog active crossovers.
I'm not sure which crossover components are left in place when you flip the biamp switch on the 1230's. The entire tweeter circuit would have to stay intact as you're throwing midrange-on-up at them - it's biamping a three way speaker.
I'm betting it's a combination of active and passive that's not in place for the sake of eliminating colorizing crossover components so much as breaking up the workload on amplifiers or throwing a tube amp at the upper end for the smooth and a solid state at the woofers for the power.
And don't try to convince the good folks at Audio Karma that you're NOT a wealthy eccentric with your estate in the country with your own private audio grotto. Hef' said he'd be up later in the week, by the way.
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