ESS HEIL membranes

[el seven]

Actually @ CES 2010 a whole year earlier.

Hold on and i will find the pictures from 2010's "little disaster".

Pictures from my 'adventure' at CES where those were initially displayed. Also attached is a test-fire using a 48oz - 2" coil 10 and inversely mounted poly cone radiator. Awful results!

Cases to note are; there was absolutely no R&D other than my in-house testing with available 25yo repaired and/or stock drivers. No mass calcs were done on any driver, including the drone cone. The amt housed atop clearly sounded stifled, and midbass response was absent. 13-pleat diaphragms are used and the cabinet design (that's a stretch) simply mimicked a build made specifically for Pacific Stereo in 1980. China copies everything but the sham is that ESS is guilty of the same over the decades, copying themselves if you can believe that, and especially guilty "today".

I was not impressed with sonic clarity but moreover driver alignment is tragically well off the mark. This series will not fly at all is my professional predilection and although several other factors come to mind that will kill their efforts, this might be the nail in the coffin. Current driver usage is again, very suspect. Off-the-shelf cone and motor structures from a lo-fi home theater mfr in China, both in the active and passive. Even the Concept CE-1 crossovers were copied to a fault. I wish i had good news about this build.

 

[Shackman55]

Love my AMT1 Heils Good little read about Heil the man (Oskar) on wikipedia. I have long thought it would make a great movie. Unwilling Nazi scientist Oskar Heil forced to create sonic weapon, avoiding the completion until the Allied forces defeat Hitler then they whisk him away in the night to a secret facility in the deserts of Nevada where he completes his creation THE GREAT HEIL!!! Used for good instead of evil!
Ok really just good sounding speakers but you have to admit it could be a good movie!

 

[infantry49]

Here's my modified ess heil 1D USING partsexpress newest drivers including dual ess woofers replacing the passive radiator. This is my DIY on steroids. I also tweaked the crossovers with feedback stabilizers and use 6 inch spacers to separate each heils into a line array design. Never thought about using horns as an additional midrange as I am three heils don't need extra midrange. The vocals is about as real as you can get with reproduced music. I find the ess heils works best on tubes. I have plenty of high grade MOSFET or SS amplifiers BUT tubes really make them sing.

 

[infantry49]

Pictures from my 'adventure' at CES where those were initially displayed. Also attached is a test-fire using a 48oz - 2" coil 10 and inversely mounted poly cone radiator. Awful results!

Cases to note are; there was absolutely no R&D other than my in-house testing with available 25yo repaired and/or stock drivers. No mass calcs were done on any driver, including the drone cone. The amt housed atop clearly sounded stifled, and midbass response was absent. 13-pleat diaphragms are used and the cabinet design (that's a stretch) simply mimicked a build made specifically for Pacific Stereo in 1980. China copies everything but the sham is that ESS is guilty of the same over the decades, copying themselves if you can believe that, and especially guilty "today".

I was not impressed with sonic clarity but moreover driver alignment is tragically well off the mark. This series will not fly at all is my professional predilection and although several other factors come to mind that will kill their efforts, this might be the nail in the coffin. Current driver usage is again, very suspect. Off-the-shelf cone and motor structures from a lo-fi home theater mfr in China, both in the active and passive. Even the Concept CE-1 crossovers were copied to a fault. I wish i had good news about this build.

SPEAK FOR YOURSELF. SOME OF US KNOW BETTER THEN YOU! Your failed attempt on the ess evaluation should not be blamed on the technology but on yourself. The rest of us who own ess heils stock or modified and i know how to modify them being a technician and audiophile for over 31 yrs and collecting many loudspeakers including electrostats, planars and ohm walsh's etc. The ess heils done right surpasses just about anything out there outside of the ultra high end german physiks, MBL, DUEVEL, transmission audio. Everyone hears things differently and have different tastes. The problem is NOT ess, it's you, the ess heils are just not for YOUR TASTE. You should listen to something else. But don't trash ESS just because you don't like their design and your failed expectations. I'm not a fan of PSB, emotiva speakers, FOCAL, and all these dynamic systems using dome tweeters but I don't trash and criticize the company for using those drivers. I personally am not a fan of dome tweeter designs but don't trash the use of it. Partsexpress uses the ess drivers and the heils and I am pleased with them. Any speaker system will sound like crap if not matched with good equipment and in a proper room environment and material source and players. I haven't heared the newer lines but NOTHING out in the market including those I've heard on high end specialty stores compare to my modified essheil 1D from 2003. I have never heard a loudspeaker more lifelike as the one's I have. Go criticize bose and those cheap speakers sold at bestbuy and other mass market stores including many overpriced crappy high end speakers sold mostly because of the cabinets.

 

[automojo]

Here's my modified ess heil 1D USING partsexpress newest drivers including dual ess woofers replacing the passive radiator. This is my DIY on steroids. I also tweaked the crossovers with feedback stabilizers and use 6 inch spacers to separate each heils into a line array design. Never thought about using horns as an additional midrange as I am three heils don't need extra midrange. The vocals is about as real as you can get with reproduced music. I find the ess heils works best on tubes. I have plenty of high grade MOSFET or SS amplifiers BUT tubes really make them sing.

WOW! Very impressive!:thmbsp: I bet they sound great.
Those woofers look very similiar to my old 80's PS1220's, with those new ones paper, instead of poly. Paper is a better match IMHO, and a like the sound of a good paper cone woofer for the most part regardless of speaker type.
As far as the membranes go, I couldn't tell you, as there seems to be mixed finding's from what I can come up with so far.
Usually the biggest problem with implimenting the AMT Heil is driver and crossover matching, regardless of vintage. The AMT3 design solves 99.9% of this IMHO.
Look for my future AMT#3 Supercharged version in the near (hopefully) future.
I orignally was going OE, but threw that out the window after a couple of discoveries and oversights.
A hand wired, higher efficiency croosover and modified cabs are among the highlights, insights mostley gained from fellow Ak Heil Addicts, as well as few things I found on my own.
They should be killer and yes, give the competion a serious run for their money.
Interesting thoughts on tupe amplification. I use H/K's in both setups, which seems a very good match, but as I have found others seems to have very good luck with tubes-good news IMHO.
Perhaps someday......
Hopefully ESS will be able to succesfully market a actual speaker design in the near future.
I still think they should go the AMT3 route, with a all out up to date high performance design.
The speaker design/theroy has a strong following, and a up to date, ready to purchase model would put alot of current high end speakers to the test IMHO.

 

[dsime42]

SPEAK FOR YOURSELF. SOME OF US KNOW BETTER THEN YOU! Your failed attempt on the ess evaluation should not be blamed on the technology but on yourself.

Not to put too fine a point on it but, I think that that is what he meant by:

Pictures from my 'adventure' at CES where those were initially displayed. Also attached is a test-fire using a 48oz - 2" coil 10 and inversely mounted poly cone radiator. Awful results!
...
Cases to note are; there was absolutely no R&D other than my in-house testing with available 25yo repaired and/or stock drivers. No mass calcs were done on any driver, including the drone cone.

He wasn't saying the the Heils were bad he was saying that he botched the design, or...
I could be wrong on my translation.

I am focusing in on the "absolutely no R&D"
and the
"No mass calcs" parts of his post.
These suggest that he had a concept and ran with it
instead of running the numbers on it.

Myself, I think that:
replacing a PR with a driver signifies a failure to see the PR as a port
and
putting a box around the Great Heil would seem to be a sure way to lose that great sound stage.
But I could be wrong and his box may have been a disaster for some totally different reasons.

 

[automojo]

El Seven does have some close at hand insights with ESS.
From what I understand, and from his love of early ESS AMT designs, it's more of a disappointment thrn a trashing.
Persoanlly, I have no clue what the newer diaphrams, AMT Heils or new ESS drivers sound like, let alone their new speaker designs.
Nothing wrong with criticism if it's valid.
Personally, as mentioned before, ESS really should come out with a modern AMT3 design, as this was their best overall model over the years.
Many other are very close seconds, but a modern AMT3 design with a midwoofer would be a killer speaker IMHO.
Hell, all they would really have to do is use the Eminece 1040SF, the Eminece Alpha 6A, a properly tweaked and adjusted AMT3 coil crossover with quality parts and a up to date AMT3 cabinet.
A solid MDF inner cabinet with nice woods sides, or veniered sides like the original. Hell, even a nice vinyl would work.
They wouldn't have to rely on questionable over seas quality. Or at the very least, choose a good factory with some quality control.
Alternatively they could just have Eminece make those cast frame woofers and passives.
Polk used Eminece in the past with good success on various models.
Like anything else, you pass the cost onto the customer.
I have been self employed for 17+ years, and I'm not shy about passing on increased cost to the customer. It is what it is.
It blows my mind about some of my collegues that are so worried they will lose business. Sure, you might loose some, but if your are offering good products and services you will be fine, as there are plenty other of potential customes out their with open wallets and check books.
Seems like alot of these collegues have a 'bottom feeder' mentality.
Hard to make money that way.
With high volume customers you make some adjustments for quantity if needed, but never with operating cost's.
My business increased 25.2% over last year, even with these passing on of these cost's.
I also deal with local 3M alot. They aren't shy about passing on increased cost's. They seem to being doing fine as well.
ESS And the AMT Heil has a lot of admirers-the current ESS labs IMHO should bank on this, and start producing some quality products, not cost cutting ones.
Wasting time and money on seeing if you can market/sell inferior cost cutting products (if the new ones indeed are) makes little sense.
A complete waste of time, money and effort. Personally from what I have seen so far, Ricky fails to understand his potential market, and chooses to concentrate on cost cutting methods instead of producing superior products. Just looking at the unfinished/unorginized nature of some of the products at some of those shows seems to give some validity to El Seven's points.
If it was me, I would look towards the succesful companies, like local JBL for example and say to myself, why do they continue to be successful? What formula are they using? How can I apply that to my business?
Simplify each case and step to make it easier. It's really not that complicated, if you have the capital, product and market. All you need to add is the drive and want to succeed.

 

[el seven]

El Seven does have some close at hand insights with ESS.
From what I understand, and from his love of early ESS AMT designs, it's more of a disappointment then a trashing.
Personally, I have no clue what the newer diaphragms, AMT Heils or new ESS drivers sound like, let alone their new speaker designs.
Nothing wrong with criticism if it's valid.
Personally, as mentioned before, ESS really should come out with a modern AMT3 design, as this was their best overall model over the years.
Many other are very close seconds, but a modern AMT3 design with a mid-woofer would be a killer speaker IMHO.
Hell, all they would really have to do is use the Eminece 1040SF, the Eminece Alpha 6A, a properly tweaked and adjusted AMT3 coil crossover with quality parts and a up to date AMT3 cabinet.
A solid MDF inner cabinet with nice woods sides, or veneered sides like the original. Hell, even a nice vinyl would work.
They wouldn't have to rely on questionable over seas quality. Or at the very least, choose a good factory with some quality control.
Alternatively they could just have Eminece make those cast frame woofers and passives.
Polk used Eminece in the past with good success on various models.
Like anything else, you pass the cost onto the customer.
I have been self employed for 17+ years, and I'm not shy about passing on increased cost to the customer. It is what it is.
It blows my mind about some of my colleagues that are so worried they will lose business. Sure, you might loose some, but if your are offering good products and services you will be fine, as there are plenty other of potential customers out their with open wallets and check books.
Seems like a lot of these colleagues have a 'bottom feeder' mentality.
Hard to make money that way.
With high volume customers you make some adjustments for quantity if needed, but never with operating cost's.
My business increased 25.2% over last year, even with these passing on of these cost's.
I also deal with local 3M a lot. They aren't shy about passing on increased cost's. They seem to being doing fine as well.
ESS And the AMT Heil has a lot of admirers-the current ESS labs IMHO should bank on this, and start producing some quality products, not cost cutting ones.
Wasting time and money on seeing if you can market/sell inferior cost cutting products (if the new ones indeed are) makes little sense.
A complete waste of time, money and effort. Personally from what I have seen so far, Ricky fails to understand his potential market, and chooses to concentrate on cost cutting methods instead of producing superior products. Just looking at the unfinished / disorganized nature of some of the products at some of those shows seems to give some validity to El Seven's points.
If it was me, I would look towards the successful companies, like local JBL for example and say to myself, why do they continue to be successful? What formula are they using? How can I apply that to my business?
Simplify each case and step to make it easier. It's really not that complicated, if you have the capital, product and market. All you need to add is the drive and want to succeed.

It's my pleasure to quote this post, Automatic Mojo. You've touched on some very key points within the moniker of "ESS Labs, LLC" and what's really going on.

At a time when i've more of my own time, i will respond in detail et al.

 

[el seven]

Not to put too fine a point on it but, I think that that is what he meant by:



He wasn't saying the the Heils were bad he was saying that he botched the design, or...
I could be wrong on my translation.

I am focusing in on the "absolutely no R&D"
and the
"No mass calcs" parts of his post.
These suggest that he had a concept and ran with it
instead of running the numbers on it.

Myself, I think that:
replacing a PR with a driver signifies a failure to see the PR as a port
and
putting a box around the Great Heil would seem to be a sure way to lose that great sound stage.
But I could be wrong and his box may have been a disaster for some totally different reasons.

To clear up any confusion, there was no design. Other than to prompt Rico into getting it together in time for CES. I stuffed whatever was available into whatever he had in a race against time. I brought in cabinets so he could copy them, i also brought good test drivers because he had only few samples from China's 1st run of woofers. They came in wrong so i had to opt for relinquishing some of my equipment. So to the point of R&D and any calculations yes. There were none performed. No testing equipment was available at all and no time to do anything about it. All the R&D of the moment was trial and error with the cabinets he had built at kitchen cabinet shops, in a flaming hurry no less.

The 'disaster' was the entire debacle of the showing. I had a trying time getting prepared for it and was scrambling anywhere and everywhere i could to muster up enough gear to even show up! There is no end to the poor planning stories i could go into about that whole time and i almost gave up on Rico more than once. :tears: Basically ruined my holiday season trying to wake him up to the fact that it's going to suck and i'm not happy about it after my due diligence in an attempt to succeed. Had i it to do over again, i would've left him in El Monte without question.

Now if Manny Infantry 49'er up there wants to have me listen to his triple amt kerfuffle and his double chinese anti-woofer build... i would need to be adequately compensated for this venture. :screwy:

L7

 

[el seven]

el seven does have some close at hand insights with ESS. From what I understand, and from his love of early ESS AMT designs, it's more of a disappointment then a trashing. Personally, I have no clue what the newer diaphragms, AMT Heils or new ESS drivers sound like, let alone their new speaker designs. Nothing wrong with criticism if it's valid.

Personally, as mentioned before, ESS really should come out with a modern AMT3 design, as this was their best overall model over the years. Many other are very close seconds, but a modern AMT3 design with a mid-woofer would be a killer speaker IMHO. Hell, all they would really have to do is use the Eminece 1040SF, the Eminece Alpha 6A, a properly tweaked and adjusted AMT3 coil crossover with quality parts and a up to date AMT3 cabinet. A solid MDF inner cabinet with nice woods sides, or veneered sides like the original. Hell, even a nice vinyl would work. They wouldn't have to rely on questionable overseas quality. Or at the very least, choose a good factory with some quality control. Alternatively they could just have Eminece make those cast frame woofers and passives. Polk used Eminece in the past with good success on various models. Like anything else, you pass the cost onto the customer.

Interestingly enough i thought the same as i am more or less an Historian of the line(s) they produced using the transformer. Put it to Rico that the 3 was one of their best sellers, and still ranks up there in the top 2 with respect to loyal followers. Also suggested strongly which amt units he should copy since copying is his thing. Brought one of everything to his attn in person, supplied specs and my reasoning, sampled music program and comparable listening experiences (repeatedly) for extended periods, and laid out the rationale as to why. His mindset is in another direction. He didn't actually disagree with me, he just seems to want cheap bling instead of moderate bang, for the buck i mean. It was the Concept tower i loaned him that started his looks over quality theme. Went downhill from there really. He then told me he wanted to reinvent the amt and re-patent an updated version since the patent expired a long time ago. Drivers sourced from overseas are either too expensive, or too cheap. I won't get into that here.

It blows my mind about some of my colleagues that are so worried they will lose business. Sure, you might loose some, but if your are offering good products and services you will be fine, as there are plenty other of potential customers out their with open wallets and check books. Seems like a lot of these colleagues have a 'bottom feeder' mentality. Hard to make money that way. With high volume customers you make some adjustments for quantity if needed, but never with operating cost's

ESS And the AMT Heil has a lot of admirers - the current ESS labs IMHO should bank on this, and start producing some quality products, not cost cutting ones. Wasting time and money on seeing if you can market/sell inferior cost cutting products (if the new ones indeed are) makes little sense. A complete waste of time, money and effort. Personally from what I have seen so far, Ricky fails to understand his potential market, and chooses to concentrate on cost cutting methods instead of producing superior products. Just looking at the unfinished/unorganized nature of some of the products at some of those shows seems to give some validity to el even's points.

If it was me, I would look towards the successful companies, like local JBL for example and say to myself, why do they continue to be successful? What formula are they using? How can I apply that to my business? Simplify each case and step to make it easier. It's really not that complicated, if you have the capital, product and market. All you need to add is the drive and want to succeed.

True, he is not looking at market strategy with reasonable intellect. The whole time / money / effort is a big big issue with the company. It has multiple veins running throughout all aspects of what is happening. Time is very poorly spent there, except for the one individual who is doing all the actual work. There is no money available for the appropriate efforts and they are losing money as a direct result. It's not about losing customers (yet), they haven't found any new customers, yet. Any time anything needs to be spent that isn't related to ongoing operating costs, Rico has to ask for it. He can't ask for it, period. They are operating in the red and have since they re-opened. Existing tooling for amt assy was present, he just needed to acquire new material vendors for the diaphragms and new driver vendors. Backward product support is SO key here it's unimaginable that monies spent in that direction would be stifled, but it is. Back to the forward technology standpoint - go ultra cheap is the only route. If cabs need doing for new builds, they must be done undeniably cheap. Drivers? Same. Crossovers? Same. If i shared the component costs / cabinet costs with any of you... you just wouldn't believe me. All of the components of the new amt's come from the orient as well, less the circuits themselves. That should say something. Different mfg'r than the woofers and passives, but same country of origin. The 'showings' as it were, are a different animal altogether. Again with under-staffing due to no ability to have decent personnel, poor planning start to finish, lack of personal drive with him in particular, lazy thinking, and not a good grasp on the appropriate marketing within the audiophile community... be it retro-consumers or new ones. He spends too much time seeking out inexpensive gold-plated binding posts, low-cost ess logo's to put on the cones, and dreaming of reinventing the Heil. I'm disenfranchised as you already know. Rico is a life-long salesman and ess' doors are only still open because he talked the (then reluctant) owner into letting head-rest automotive video monitors sport the ESS badge on them, and they're selling fairly decent enough because (you guessed it), the price point. I wish he would see the err of the ways that diaphragm sales and $300 car dvd players won't get us anything to cheer about in the future with good full-sized house speakers.

 

[DRMcD]

I've been watching these ESS threads with interest. Does the owner of ESS read this stuff?

Cuz dang... I wish people at my work would talk like this.

 

[decooney]

It seems more than a few here have been attempting to infuse some experience and great ideas into the new company to help make it a success vs. failure.

I for one commend the effort by anyone to try and resurrect ESS in a tough economy. I grew up with ESS in my town, and it was a legacy in the 70s and 80s. Even worked there in 1983 for a year or so.

With this new company, my first thought was a hope that the new product would be 100% American Made. If the woofer driver parts are truly sourced form China, and they are not very good quality, this could be a real problem especially if the retail price of the speakers is too high. Now the real question... I have not heard the new large ESS AMT LD-10R speakers in person yet.

Honestly, bottom line question - how do they sound with a good amp and electronics in front of them? Better or worse than the old AMTs from the 80s?

 

[el seven]

I've been watching these ESS threads with interest. Does the owner of ESS read this stuff?

Cuz dang... I wish people at my work would talk like this.

No, not at all. He's far removed from all of this. He really doesn't care to bother with it which is part and parcel the reason why Rico is all over the place trying to haggle prices down everywhere. Leo is a big player in the final product being what it is but, he is completely hands off and couldn't be bothered with anything besides setting MSRP through the proverbial roof.

 

[puppet]

Sounds like ESS is just slapping whatever drivers in some boxes and running them out the door? .. no development, testing ... nothing?

heh ... why work there? .. considering, if the above is true, they wouldn't/shouldn't be on anybodies resume anyway.

 

[DRMcD]

...and not a good grasp on the appropriate marketing within the audiophile community... be it retro-consumers or new ones.

Count me as both. And a fan of anti-marketing.

I keep seeing the word "bling" above, and immediately correlated the current pricing of ESS products vs. the concept of Veblen goods. Not a strong use of negative marketing space when...

I for one commend the effort by anyone to try and resurrect ESS in a tough economy.

...people are constantly reminding each other of hardship. "In this economy"

And +1, BTW.

... why work there? .. considering, if the above is true, they wouldn't/shouldn't be on anybodies resume anyway.

Was fantasizing about the big black garbage bag full of money again reading this thread last night... now I'm not so sure. It started with me thinkin "damn... I'd lovingly assemble AMT-3's all day long...", then progressed to "how much would the intellectual property be on the Heil design overall?"...

The word of mouth on the innernetz sure don't spell failure for the AMT driver - and word of mouth is effin priceless. I haven't heard these in person yet, have never attempted speaker DIY yet, and yet I'm already thinkin about incorporating them into my first project. Which happen to already mimic ESS AMT 1 Towers (and I'm still open to ideas).

The AMT-3 Rock Monitor is always the most frequent image when Googling images. Least in my searches...

And there's plenty of twentysomethings who need to wean off computer speakers - the idea wouldn't need to dumb down the prices (ok maybe a little bit), and would still keep the bling aspect-

Quick somebody pay me $75K to do marketing for these guys!

And we need that dude who did the PR damage control for that gaming controller...

And if there's anyone in Chicago on here with Heils in some form or fashion, I'd like to invite myself over to hear them :thmbsp:

 

[el seven]

It seems more than a few here have been attempting to infuse some experience and great ideas into the new company to help make it a success vs. failure.

Yes!

I for one commend the effort by anyone to try and resurrect ESS in a tough economy. I grew up with ESS in my town, and it was a legacy in the 70s and 80s. Even worked there in 1983 for a year or so.

Similar story here, which is why i tried to do everything in my power to help.

With this new company, my first thought was a hope that the new product would be 100% American Made. If the woofer driver parts are truly sourced form China, and they are not very good quality, this could be a real problem especially if the retail price of the speakers is too high. Now the real question... I have not heard the new large ESS AMT LD-10R speakers in person yet.

It's kinda the old company reopened and situated anew in an old warehouse bldg. Same old clamping jig to force 2 Heil halves together that you saw in the mid 80's. They don't build anything in house, everything is outsourced. The recones are performed there, the diaphragms are now folded there as of late 2010, and that's about it. Any cabinets are completely "done" when arriving, from down the street (so to speak) in Baldwin Park. The drivers do come into the port in Long Beach but i think the orders are slim these days and considering the individual pricing to get that ____ x 1,000 piece pricing... there's no reason to suspect any new orders are being culled.

Honestly, bottom line question - how do they sound with a good amp and electronics in front of them? Better or worse than the old AMTs from the 80s?

Only info i can share is my opinion. In the facility i did a lot of parts swapping with the old cabs of 1b era and new cabs of 1f era including some custom crossovers housed on a bow-tie shaped single sided board and i couldn't really get very satisfied with the new drivers and radiators. The first run of China's offerings stunk and got rejected. Went to the rep and asked for another coil. He then flew back to China and pulled something ELSE off the shelf and threw it into the same cone / basket assy. After trying out that run i assumed there was more to be done than ever will and the cabinets ~ crossovers are partially to blame also. Meaning the amt doesn't get significant air-time in the 10LR also. Remember the Concept CE-1 decooney? Flip that box 90° and there's your new box. Drivers are now side-mounted and the semi-trapezoidal cabinet turned. The problem in a nutshell on the actives, is that everything being used in the motor assy is off-the-shelf. That Oriental source did and still does, mfg'r moderate budget home theater for a moderate budget price. Lots and lots to choose from, too. I scanned their brochure at length when i first met the rep, he's a nice enough guy and is willing to mfg'r anything but the monies aren't there for that. As it were, Leo had to spend over $4,000 to tool them up for the distinct cast frame(s). It was either spend that 4k over there, or spend even more here.

 

[mrappe]

Meaning the amt doesn't get significant air-time in the 10LR also

I am not following what this means.

 

[sti2k5]

No, not at all. He's far removed from all of this. He really doesn't care to bother with it which is part and parcel the reason why Rico is all over the place trying to haggle prices down everywhere. Leo is a big player in the final product being what it is but, he is completely hands off and couldn't be bothered with anything besides setting MSRP through the proverbial roof.

El Seven..you are wrong about 1 point...I just had them redo my woofers and radiators..and Rico watched my build thread...asked me if that was me putting all the pictures up...so yes, he does watch...no they don't have the greatest communication, but I sent my stuff, I called a week or so later, paid via credit card, and he shipped them back with tracking #'s and everything sounds amazing....so... discredit to alot of stuff sure, but one thing is he made me happy...

Now I just wait for my new serial # plates

 

[el seven]

El Seven..you are wrong about 1 point...I just had them redo my woofers and radiators..and Rico watched my build thread...asked me if that was me putting all the pictures up...so yes, he does watch...no they don't have the greatest communication, but I sent my stuff, I called a week or so later, paid via credit card, and he shipped them back with tracking #'s and everything sounds amazing....so... discredit to alot of stuff sure, but one thing is he made me happy...

Sorry for any confusion, DRMcD asked if the owner watched anything in these threads and by owner i thought, he meant owner. Leo is the owner and he's the person i was talking about. Rico is the salesman. Glad you're on your way!

 

[sti2k5]

Hmmm....I was going by on the website where it says Rico is the CEO on the contact us form...

oh well no biggie...either way they did good by me so far!