ESS SuperQuads - I just scored some holy grail speakers/amps
- Thread starter kfa888
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Tapehead47
Addicted Member
To Cableguy: The cover of John Mayall's "Turning Point" LP!! Man! Sure brings back memories! Most of them good.
Rick
Rick
Hi Kelly,
OK, I'm confused! (Firstly)...WOW! Sweet find for sure! OK, are these speakers made by QUAD, ESS (as in AMT ESS ?) , or someone else ?
I don't believe in my thirty plus years in the hobby of Audio have I ever seen/heard of these unique Speakers. Enjoy!
Regards,
SixCats!
OK, I'm confused! (Firstly)...WOW! Sweet find for sure! OK, are these speakers made by QUAD, ESS (as in AMT ESS ?) , or someone else ?
I don't believe in my thirty plus years in the hobby of Audio have I ever seen/heard of these unique Speakers. Enjoy!
Regards,
SixCats!
kfa888
Addicted Member
You dug up an oldie!
They are made by ESS and have ESS badges on the front. But is really a set of Quad ESL's with an array of RTR planar tweeters. These tweeters BTW sound excellent. Very transparent and smooth / airy. It is hard to see in the picture but the electronic XO for the whole thing is also built by ESS. Not sure how this whole thing came about or what the story is but it's the only set I have seen. It came with all the original paperwork and instructions and has a booklet from Quad "The Acoustical Manufacturing CO LTD Huntingdon England. It's a really fancy little book of very high quality. I also have an official looking paper of authenticity from ESS Electrostatic Sound Systems inc. with the date of Dec 26 1972 (someone had a nice Christmas) Then nice 5 page instruction manual on setting them up and crossovers / amps. These originally came with 6 foot transmission line "bass towers" that utilized the KEF oval woofers which I got with it. The guy I got it from got rid of the big bass cabs unfortunately which sux as they were matching cabs.. I am going to rebuild them some day. I plan on never selling these unique and interesting monsters and will slowly bring them back to 100%. The literature is really good reading and pretty technical in explanations and setup. All scan all the literature some day but here is the first few pages of the manual and it explains the whole thing pretty well...
They are made by ESS and have ESS badges on the front. But is really a set of Quad ESL's with an array of RTR planar tweeters. These tweeters BTW sound excellent. Very transparent and smooth / airy. It is hard to see in the picture but the electronic XO for the whole thing is also built by ESS. Not sure how this whole thing came about or what the story is but it's the only set I have seen. It came with all the original paperwork and instructions and has a booklet from Quad "The Acoustical Manufacturing CO LTD Huntingdon England. It's a really fancy little book of very high quality. I also have an official looking paper of authenticity from ESS Electrostatic Sound Systems inc. with the date of Dec 26 1972 (someone had a nice Christmas) Then nice 5 page instruction manual on setting them up and crossovers / amps. These originally came with 6 foot transmission line "bass towers" that utilized the KEF oval woofers which I got with it. The guy I got it from got rid of the big bass cabs unfortunately which sux as they were matching cabs.. I am going to rebuild them some day. I plan on never selling these unique and interesting monsters and will slowly bring them back to 100%. The literature is really good reading and pretty technical in explanations and setup. All scan all the literature some day but here is the first few pages of the manual and it explains the whole thing pretty well...
Cybermynd
Active Member
Looks like an attempt to deal with the beaminess of the Quads and possibly the somewhat limited bottom end. Not sure if guilding the lilly is quite the phrase but hey, if it works, go for it!!!
At the very least you'd have a couple of 57s and if the panels are good you can likely get over a grand for them almost anywhere.
At the very least you'd have a couple of 57s and if the panels are good you can likely get over a grand for them almost anywhere.
I'm glad that ESS actually acknowledge Quad(the company),and Peter Walker the designer of the Quads in their literature,because putting an ESS badge on that product is almost fraudulent.
That would be a very interesting speaker with the original bass tower.
The owner who was going to dump the lot,sounds like he took too much acid or mushrooms,back in the day.:nono: :tears:
That would be a very interesting speaker with the original bass tower.
The owner who was going to dump the lot,sounds like he took too much acid or mushrooms,back in the day.:nono: :tears:
similost
Rockin and Rollin....
I really don't know what to say about these.. impressive as hell.. and a lot of great gear to go with them... I've always been pretty critical of strange speaker like these, but never push the idea to the side...
I've got to ask how efficient are they? What kind of power on average do you push to them?
I just keep shaking my head, because I don't understand speakers without cones, diaphragms or ribbons.....
I've got to ask how efficient are they? What kind of power on average do you push to them?
I just keep shaking my head, because I don't understand speakers without cones, diaphragms or ribbons.....
similost
Rockin and Rollin....
Charivari
Fighting Naïve Realism
No speaker has been built that is perfect in every way. The first successful models of any technology are all the more so. The QUAD ESL-57 isn't famous for its treble and definitely isn't so for its bumped up, limited extension bass. It is a legendary speaker for its midrange. So, the folks at Electrostatic Sound Solutions decided to get into the competitive audio market by taking an excellent speaker with some glaring defects and making it reference quality.Cybermynd said:
If the Quad's midrange is so good and increasingly less so to the top and bottom of it, why not cross in some RTR electrostatic tweeters that were some of the best available (and used it industry leaders such as the KLH Nine and Infinity Servo-Statik) at 3000Hz and add some bass towers using the best alignment available (after Infinity's servo-subwoofer) with KEF woofers in transmission lines crossed in below 125Hz. Voila, one of the best speakers of the decade and one of the earlier four tower reference speakers.
So, should all the speakers from the '70s using Peerless cone drivers be sold under the Peerless brand? Depending on how you view it, the Quad could be seen as just another driver in a system. Should not the designer and seller of the system be allowed to sell it under their name? Fortunately in this case, ESS was just looking to take a great product and make it truly excellent by suping it up. Quad was a sellable name and the primary component, so why not list it in the literature to help generate sales? Still, it had to be an expensive combination at the time for so few to be around. When doing some research on these for Kelly, I could only find mention of two, maybe three, other sets.theophile said:
Oh yes, the sellers were very colorful, albeit at times testing, characters. I still say that were it not for my truck acting up and the blizzard on the mountain pass, I may have been the first one to these. (Jab at Kelly. :thmbsptheophile said:
No matter, I'm happy with my mains even if they don't have the rarity aspects and name appeal going for them.- JP
Comparing peerless with Quad is comparing apples to oranges.
Peerless is an OEM manufacturer that manufactures drivers which are then on-sold to others who use these raw components as parts of an original design loudspeaker.
Quad didn't design the ESL as an OEM part,to be on-sold.The Quad ESL electrostatic was the loudspeaker which was the completed product.
ESS(with this particular speaker) has taken the entire Quad electrostatic, and crossed it over above it's bass range and below it's treble range(thereby avoiding the limitations of the Quad's bass,and the beaminess of the Quad's treble).There is no denying they used the entire Quad ESL speaker,not just a midrange driver from a driver manufacturer.
There's a big difference between buying a driver from a company which manufactures drivers on an OEM basis to make a speaker,and taking another company's speaker then enclosing it(with additional components)with your badge on it.
Like I said,without the acknowledgement to Quad the company and Peter Walker the designer in the literature,the placement of the ESS badge on that part of the speaker would have been fraudulent.
Mark Levinson also used the entire Quad speaker(x 2,stacked) in a design which applied solutions to extend the treble(Decca ribbon) and bass(Hartley subwoofer), it was marketed as the Decca-Quad-Hartley speaker,not the Levinson speaker.
Peerless is an OEM manufacturer that manufactures drivers which are then on-sold to others who use these raw components as parts of an original design loudspeaker.
Quad didn't design the ESL as an OEM part,to be on-sold.The Quad ESL electrostatic was the loudspeaker which was the completed product.
ESS(with this particular speaker) has taken the entire Quad electrostatic, and crossed it over above it's bass range and below it's treble range(thereby avoiding the limitations of the Quad's bass,and the beaminess of the Quad's treble).There is no denying they used the entire Quad ESL speaker,not just a midrange driver from a driver manufacturer.
There's a big difference between buying a driver from a company which manufactures drivers on an OEM basis to make a speaker,and taking another company's speaker then enclosing it(with additional components)with your badge on it.
Like I said,without the acknowledgement to Quad the company and Peter Walker the designer in the literature,the placement of the ESS badge on that part of the speaker would have been fraudulent.
Mark Levinson also used the entire Quad speaker(x 2,stacked) in a design which applied solutions to extend the treble(Decca ribbon) and bass(Hartley subwoofer), it was marketed as the Decca-Quad-Hartley speaker,not the Levinson speaker.
Charivari
Fighting Naïve Realism
Yet, you keep stating that ESS nearly committed a fraudulent act. They didn't, didn't come close, yet you keep saying it. Rather than commenting on it being a possible improvement of the design. An implication of bad business practice can be just as damaging as it actually happening. If anything, this reads a lot like brand elitism. "How dare ESS affix their name to a Quad speaker!"theophile said:
Fact of the matter still remains that ESS didn't commit the "fraudulent act" and they did put quite a bit of effort into building an impressive speaker around the Quad rather than make minor changes -- I bet the '57 was only a fraction of the total manufacturing cost equivalently.
Poor choice of an example, Levinson, to prove your point. Think of Red Rose Music that imports pre-existing Chinese products and slaps the RRM label on the faceplate without acknowledging who originally designed and built the units. Nope, no major changes and only the hint that maybe, maybe there may have been some subtle component changes inside, but nothing firm. How about a little Levinson bashing for "fraudulent acts"?theophile said:
- JP
Charivari
Fighting Naïve Realism
Come to think of it, what about ADS? That company started out by importing Braun speakers and slapping the ADS label on the. Later popular ADS designs were clones of Braun speakers. Or is it not ok to go around accusing ADS of fraudulent acts because the name is more respected than early ESS?
- JP
- JP
Without knowing what went on behind the scenes, it's not fair to imply "near fraud" to ESS. For all we know ESS might have wanted to call it the ESS Quad. I do think that would be more appropriate (like Shelby Mustang), but perhaps ESS & Quad couldn't reach an amicable agreement.
I'm glad to see someone else said it would have bee more appropriate to have called it ESSQuad.
Don't confuse Mark Levinson the company and Mark Levinson the person.
Mark Levinson the company released the Decca-Quad-Hartley.Mark Levinson the person was was responsible for the debacle which was Red Rose Music.
The fact that ML the company was more than ML the man is reflected in the fact that he couldn't retain the company
Please show me where I said ESS was fraudulent.
Not possible.
Red Rose was a cynical use of another's product.
Similarly to Red Rose,but thankfully with the saving grace of acknowledgement,ESS took another company's finished product,not drivers(utah,seas),bandwidth limited it,no improvement,then hid it.Covered it up.
The product released by ML the company never hid the Quad speaker,and fully acknowledged Quad the company in advertising and name of the product.
The ESS papers with the acknowledgement to Quad came with the purchase.
Was the acknowledgement given in any of the advertising for the speaker that can be produced?
The company after all is named ElectroStaticSolutions,uses Quad electrostatics,Janzen electrostatics,and manufactures a direct radiator transmission line woofer column and crossover.
Not much of an ElectroStaticSolution company now.
Might we better christen it ElectroStaticStolen?
Did the company ever produce an electrostatic element of their own design,let alone manufacture?
Most of us would associate ESS with the Heil driver.Did Janzen and Quad forbid ESS the use of their products,necessitating the switch to the Heil?
Maybe ML the man was inspired by ESS for his business ideals.If it worked for them,maybe it'll work for me?
Don't confuse Mark Levinson the company and Mark Levinson the person.
Mark Levinson the company released the Decca-Quad-Hartley.Mark Levinson the person was was responsible for the debacle which was Red Rose Music.
The fact that ML the company was more than ML the man is reflected in the fact that he couldn't retain the company
Please show me where I said ESS was fraudulent.
Not possible.
Red Rose was a cynical use of another's product.
Similarly to Red Rose,but thankfully with the saving grace of acknowledgement,ESS took another company's finished product,not drivers(utah,seas),bandwidth limited it,no improvement,then hid it.Covered it up.
The product released by ML the company never hid the Quad speaker,and fully acknowledged Quad the company in advertising and name of the product.
The ESS papers with the acknowledgement to Quad came with the purchase.
Was the acknowledgement given in any of the advertising for the speaker that can be produced?
The company after all is named ElectroStaticSolutions,uses Quad electrostatics,Janzen electrostatics,and manufactures a direct radiator transmission line woofer column and crossover.
Not much of an ElectroStaticSolution company now.
Might we better christen it ElectroStaticStolen?
Did the company ever produce an electrostatic element of their own design,let alone manufacture?
Most of us would associate ESS with the Heil driver.Did Janzen and Quad forbid ESS the use of their products,necessitating the switch to the Heil?
Maybe ML the man was inspired by ESS for his business ideals.If it worked for them,maybe it'll work for me?