fred soop
Super Member
Better yet, CD player with level control on the FRONT, as the Harman Kardon 7500 and similar. Some CDs are recorded with higher or lower than average signals and that readily accessible control is handy.
Excessive gain / volume
- Thread starter nottingham365
- Start date
Better yet, CD player with level control on the FRONT, as the Harman Kardon 7500 and similar. Some CDs are recorded with higher or lower than average signals and that readily accessible control is handy.
Dswankey
Lunatic Member
It seems to me that the issue is primarily with the CD players, as he's running different set ups (pre-amps). I see folks offering suggestions on the pre-amps yet we don't know if the OP is experiencing the same loudness with other sources (tuner, TT etc) hopefully the OP will chime back in and clarify.
@Lavane in posts 11 & 12 is onto what I think might be the issue.
Some Denon CDP's not all will have "Fixed" and "Variable" output as seen here on a Denon DCD-1500, which I have. As for the NAD I can't speak to that as I've never owned one.
If the OP is connected via "Variable" there could be a possibility that the volume (from CDP) is currently turned up possibly via remote.
The OP says he's using CD players exclusively.
The output of CD players is pretty standardized at 2V. I haven't checked the specs of all his gear but I checked the HK amps. Their line input sensitivity is 130mV, so the CD player's output is 24dB more than it needs to be to drive the HK to full output. It isn't any more complicated than that.
lini
just me...
Andrew: To make it short, the Adcom combo is even more highly sensitive (205 mV for 2V on the pre- and 1.75 V for 200 W @ 8 Ohm on the power-amp). And his speakers are 89 dB (@ 1 W; nominal impedance 6 Ohm).
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
Even more of a problem then!
Definitely some attenuation needed somewhere if he wasn't more usable travel on the volume control.
Dswankey
Lunatic Member
^ @rothwellaudio & @lini
Humor me as my original post was just a thought not a knowledgeable assessment so I defer to your knowledge.
I noticed the H/K pre-amp doesn't have a dedicated "CD" input and was designed 1983-86. If I'm not mistaken CDP's were in there very early stages during this time span (1983-86) maybe the amp wasn't designed with CDP's in mind?
If the OP is still using this setup as of Nov, 2019 (see thread) might that be an issue?
https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/i...-cd-player-to-cd-recorder-connections.892271/
Humor me as my original post was just a thought not a knowledgeable assessment so I defer to your knowledge.
I noticed the H/K pre-amp doesn't have a dedicated "CD" input and was designed 1983-86. If I'm not mistaken CDP's were in there very early stages during this time span (1983-86) maybe the amp wasn't designed with CDP's in mind?
If the OP is still using this setup as of Nov, 2019 (see thread) might that be an issue?
https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/i...-cd-player-to-cd-recorder-connections.892271/
Maybe "DAD" was intended for CD players - digital audio device.
The manual says the line inputs have a sensitivity of 130mV and there's no mention of an input with a lower sensitivity.
But you're right, I think preamps from years ago were designed for sources with a lower output than CD players. Having said that, plenty of modern amplifiers seem to have too much gain too - hence the number of enquiries I get for attenuators.
nottingham365
New Member
Unfortunately, the CD players do not feature level controls.
nottingham365
New Member
Maybe "DAD" was intended for CD players - digital audio device.
The manual says the line inputs have a sensitivity of 130mV and there's no mention of an input with a lower sensitivity.
But you're right, I think preamps from years ago were designed for sources with a lower output than CD players. Having said that, plenty of modern amplifiers seem to have too much gain too - hence the number of enquiries I get for attenuators.
Yes; the DAD inputs are intended for CD players per the owner's manual.
Dswankey
Lunatic Member
lini
just me...
See the "DAD"? That's supposed to mean Digital Audio Disc. So, no, that's not really the problem.
As mentioned above, I had the same problem with that HK combo also with other sources, too (turntables included). It's simply a problem of pretty high input sensitivity in combination with fairly high output power and a limited range of attenuation. I'd guess, that the designers of such pre-/power amp combos foremost had customers in mind, who would use such combos in pretty big rooms with quite a bit of listening distance and who would typically rather not be "low volume listeners".
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
nottingham365
New Member
I think it's just weird that it is happening to both preamps and power amplifiers at the same time. Kinda rare that two different systems/brands exhibit the same problems.
I have never really encountered this problem unless I was accidentally using the phono inputs.
Is it possible to show us your set up and how it is connected?
On the Adcom setup, I am using tape inputs for one CD source and CD inputs for the other CD source.
On the h/k setup, I am using the DAD and AUX inputs.
So, I think the connections are OK. It does seem crazy that both setups are behaving the same. Well, things could be worse. I could be trying to isolate a phantom ground hum in my system.
nottingham365
New Member
NAD C 542 player
NAD C 660 player/recorder
Denon DN-C550R player/recorder
I even had a high-end Ayre CD player connected to the Adcom setup for a while; same issue.
These vintage setups are fairly new to me. The problem existed upon my first use of the systems. The h/k components had been unused for years. I had them fully serviced, including first bringing them up to 120v using a variac.
Dswankey
Lunatic Member
If I read that correctly you have 4 CDP's connected between the 2? May I ask for what reason? just curious is all
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nottingham365
New Member
I want to thank everybody who has contributed to this thread. I am going to try a pair of 20db attenuators between the preamp and amp in both systems. If that does not yield a satisfactory result, I will try the attenuators between CD source and preamp. Thanks again.
I have a more cynical view. Maybe they thought "if it goes really loud with the volume control barely off the bottom, surely the customers will think there's still loads of power in reserve!"
sqlsavior
Lunatic Member
Another solution would be a passive preamp, as you obviously don't need all that gain.
Here's a $50 passive, that you could use with a switch box for more inputs: https://www.schiit.com/products/sys
Here's a magnetic passive preamp for $500, that uses multi-tap transformers for volume control, and is about as transparent as can be had:
http://www.promitheusaudio.com/tvc.htm
Here's a $50 passive, that you could use with a switch box for more inputs: https://www.schiit.com/products/sys
Here's a magnetic passive preamp for $500, that uses multi-tap transformers for volume control, and is about as transparent as can be had:
http://www.promitheusaudio.com/tvc.htm