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Fast amp?

Guys ... lol - that's not how "fast" applies to amplifiers. What it refers to is how quickly the amplifier can change its amplitude - from rest to the top of a given waveform and in what time. IE, the reproduction of the whack of a drumstick which approaches the maximum level of the media. As kevzep pointed out above, this is defined as the slew rate and is measured in volts / microsecond.

Alas ... I've never heard a Mc amplifier that had any difficulty in this area and Mc doesn't provide the spec anyhow.
 
Guys ... lol - that's not how "fast" applies to amplifiers. What it refers to is how quickly the amplifier can change its amplitude - from rest to the top of a given waveform and in what time. IE, the reproduction of the whack of a drumstick which approaches the maximum level of the media. As kevzep pointed out above, this is defined as the slew rate and is measured in volts / microsecond.

Alas ... I've never heard a Mc amplifier that had any difficulty in this area and Mc doesn't provide the spec anyhow.

I mentioned slew rate in posts #5 (and 22), ... but we'll need to mention it again on every page.
 
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I can assure you that any piece of electronics has a slew rate greater than air so maybe you "speed" freaks should start listening in a medium with a "faster" gas.

Oxygen for all it's sound deficiencies is quite vital to life.

I think there was a speaker driver back in the 70s that was inside a Mylar bag filled with a hexaflouride that coupled with the air.

Again, reviewers just looking to find words to justify their opinion and method of receiving a income, or in the case of judgmental "friends" golden ear status and chain pulling.
 
I think the friends are dealing with nitrous oxide (aka: "laughing gas"), ...

The biggest providers of "speed" in this way are the speakers and as Chris mentioned, ... air. If you move a diaphragm at supersonic speed you are no longer providing sound. Different speakers respond at different rates also, you might ask your friends if they're shopping plasma speakers yet.

If your tastes involve microphone recordings, the sound waves are moving the microphone "diaphragm" in ways similar to a full-range speaker (although the excursion is far far less, the components of doppler distortion etc. are similar on the recording and playback end) and speed / slew-rate needs only to be as great as the air which moves the microphone diaphragm (and largely in sinusoidal movement although with a complicated amplitude modulation). If electronic music (my son got me hooked on Deadmau5 a couple of years ago for example) then the program material you're sending through your system can have sharp corners on its waveforms, sawtooth/square/etc. hybrid stuff that can barely be reproduced by modern electronics (but will be softened by the motor of the speakers and the air that you're trying to move), ... but yes there is a difference in what system I'd choose for that and I can tell you that a modern amp with electrostatic speakers can really cause you pain here, ... OTOH a nice MC2505 might make it less accurate and more listenable (less fatiguing).

JBL once stated "speakers are an art". Your entire system can be a perpetual science/physics project (been there): what numbers and graphs tell you is the best or it can be art: what your ears tell you is the best. Really good designers trust their ears after the numbers have all been crunched.

I listen to art.
 
Baltang ort. That was different. Electronica? My **** kept up just fine.

Yeah I warned ya :-) Squarepusher isn't for everyone, but he does push boundaries that's for sure. If you read up on that album, he ended up building a lot of the gear himself. For a jazz bass player, he's quite the inventor and electronics wizard. The music is 100% electronica and not really something I listen to for enjoyment, but my son really digs him so I hear a lot of it around the house. Drives my wife nuts :-).

jblnut
 
OP: IME there is something to an amplifier’s ability to deliver a “sharp attack” of sound. Is that what you mean by a “fast” vs. “slow” amp? Perhaps people who listen to music that features percussive sounds may value an amplifier that can deliver sharp attacks of sound.

Different people have different goals for their hi-fi system. IMO, having a benchmark for the quality of reproduced audio provides a solid basis for evaluating sound quality. For me the benchmark is the live performance of classical music in a suitable venue where no sound reinforcement system is employed – i.e., 100% natural sound.

I listen to classical music and opera. I generally prefer tube amps (particularly 6L6GC), because IMO they excel in delivering the natural timbre of orchestral instruments.

However, for classical music that features piano, sometimes a solid-state amp does a better job of delivering the sharp attack of the piano. For example, Jorge Bolet’s performance of Franz Liszt’s piano transcription of Wagner’s Tannhauser Overture never fails to raise the hair on the back of my neck. (There’s an interesting story about how this “lost” recording was rediscovered. I highly recommend this CD.) IMO the power of this performance is delivered better by my Acurus A250 power amp vs. one of my tube amps (which I generally prefer for orchestral music);

71E2L-nFn2L._SX425_.jpg


If you listen to music (or movies) that features “sharp attack” … or “SLAM” … that’s a different demand on a hi-fi system than reproducing the natural timbre of a cello.

I own a McIntosh MC 2155 that is in mint condition. It presently drives speakers in my breakfast room and dining room for low-level background music (e.g., cocktail parties).

Several years ago, my MC 2155 was installed in my TV room. I almost never watch action movies. However, several years ago I was watching a movie that featured a soundtrack with “techno music”, and when switching between several amps in this system (at that time) I noticed a significant difference is the amps’ delivery of the IMPACT of the music. At that time, my Pioneer SX-1010 delivered noticeably more SLAM … PUNCH … IMPACT … EXCITEMENT … for an action movie. In comparison, my MC 2155 sounded “slow” … or “dull”. (IIRC, the SX-1010 is direct coupled, vs, the MC 2155’s autoformers.)

This doesn’t mean that I don’t like my MC 2155. I still own my MC 2155. OTOH, my Pioneer SX-1010 is long gone (along with my SX-1980, and SX-1080). Based on the music that I love, these Pioneer amps were not “musical”. (IMO they sounded “dry”.) They were EXCITING to listen to for a few seconds, and then caused a headache. I’ve sold almost all of my solid-state amps, and currently own more than 2 dozen tube amps.

My MC 2155 is not my favorite amp in terms of sound quality. (That would probably go to my McIntosh MC30s, or Scott 296.) Nonetheless, my MC 2155 does a good job driving speakers for background listening. I primarily own my MC 2155 for its blue meters and backlit faceplate. I’m very glad to own an MC 2155 – it’s a handsome amp.

IMO, the $64k questions are:
  1. What genre(s) of music do you listen to?

  2. What is your goal for your hi-fi system?
You have to decide what sounds best to your ears, during the duration of a typical listening session. (This is different from what sounds EXCITING for a few seconds).

Does that make sense?

That’s my 2 cents.
 
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Robert's dissertation above does remind of the synergy between speaker and output design, where there are speakers that do play better with amplifiers (and even speaker wires) with higher damping factors (although there is some research indicating that unnecessarily high damping factors can degrade some of the HF response). Speaker and amp match, always important.

I think this was mentioned earlier in this thread?
 
I wonder if the sensation of "attack", "slam","impact", et al is not the listner's positive reaction to clipping, similar to what might be heard as the listner's auditory system might experience when subjected to the overwhelming pressure gradient when a loud transient is experienced in the real world.

Since it is doubtful that any electromagnet or capacitively coupled output device can react as swiftly as a alive auditory system (humans being low on the auditory curve) the clipped transient could very well augment that signal, spoofing the brain into recognizing it as any of the above verbal descriptions.

Low powered tube designs might provide a comfortable compromise for some as their inherent "softer" clipping would hint at some on the edge excitement without going over the edge of nasty.
 
My son (an aspiring and very talented composer and EDM musician) is constantly challenging me and my system with newer music. This album (on vinyl no less - think about that if you give it a listen) is an absolute torture test for "speed". It's not something I listen to for enjoyment, but I liken it to a chassis dyno for my system. Played loudly, it mercilessly reveals any slop anywhere in the chain.

Give it a listen (loud) if you dare. Better yet find a better source than YT, but this will give you an idea of what "fast" music is, to me at least:


jblnut

Played this track on a couple different systems. Run time was the same, so guess my amps are equally fast :rflmao:
 
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