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Finally scored an 8-track player. Panasonic RE-7070 w/that cool sliding door. Got a question.

Mr.White

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Been wanting an 8-track player for the longest time just for nostalgia and yesterday I scored this Panasonic RE-7070 from circa 1969. $15 at SA. What a looker! The tape player works but I notice that I have to carefully position the tape in just the right spot for it to sound right. A little to the left or right and it loses treble or slows down. It will play fine for 10 minutes or so and might shift slightly on it's own altering SQ. What causes this and how to fix?

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8 Tracks are a different format than other tape based systems. The player itself has the capstan and play/record heads but the tape cartridge itself has the tape reel, tape, supply and take up mechanism [pinch roller]. Therefore each tape cartridge plays an important part of the whole system. Each tape you have has to be in good shape for the deck to play back correctly. The important parts are the mechanism that controls tape position and travel which are in the form of foam pads or spring type pads under the tape. Most common are the foam pads and these 90% of the time have turned to dust. The spring type have two small pads that can come off the spring itself. These pads have a critical role in playback and record. They are there to put pressure on the tape during play so the tape is fully pressed against the heads and channel sensor. Actually, your deck is only one half of an 8 track system with the other half being the cartridge. Don't judge you new deck until you know you have a sound tape cartridge!

This means that your deck will not perform correctly unless the tape cartridge is in good shape. So a tape to evaluate your new deck must have good pads, sensing foil/splice, and tape pack. Check U-Tube videos for more background. I have gone deep into the 8 Track world and it is fun. If you want to get the most out of the 8 track world you will need to learn how to deal with 40-50 year old tapes. If you buy tapes off eBay there all tapes of every venue dirt cheap but like I said before most will need to be upgraded and rebuilt. You can find 8 track cartridges available that have been rebuilt already but a little more expensive.

Once you have a verified good tape then you can evaluate your new deck. Those issues are commonly mechanical or cleaning needs then you get into electronic issues.

I would plan on a new belt on the capstan right off the bat. This can be a fun hobby but takes a little commitment on the care and maintenance. Check out the U-Tube resources. There is plenty of information and some good sources of parts for the cartridges.
 
8 Tracks are a different format than other tape based systems. The player itself has the capstan and play/record heads but the tape cartridge itself has the tape reel, tape, supply and take up mechanism [pinch roller]. Therefore each tape cartridge plays an important part of the whole system. Each tape you have has to be in good shape for the deck to play back correctly. The important parts are the mechanism that controls tape position and travel which are in the form of foam pads or spring type pads under the tape. Most common are the foam pads and these 90% of the time have turned to dust. The spring type have two small pads that can come off the spring itself. These pads have a critical role in playback and record. They are there to put pressure on the tape during play so the tape is fully pressed against the heads and channel sensor. Actually, your deck is only one half of an 8 track system with the other half being the cartridge. Don't judge you new deck until you know you have a sound tape cartridge!

This means that your deck will not perform correctly unless the tape cartridge is in good shape. So a tape to evaluate your new deck must have good pads, sensing foil/splice, and tape pack. Check U-Tube videos for more background. I have gone deep into the 8 Track world and it is fun. If you want to get the most out of the 8 track world you will need to learn how to deal with 40-50 year old tapes. If you buy tapes off eBay there all tapes of every venue dirt cheap but like I said before most will need to be upgraded and rebuilt. You can find 8 track cartridges available that have been rebuilt already but a little more expensive.

Once you have a verified good tape then you can evaluate your new deck. Those issues are commonly mechanical or cleaning needs then you get into electronic issues.

I would plan on a new belt on the capstan right off the bat. This can be a fun hobby but takes a little commitment on the care and maintenance. Check out the U-Tube resources. There is plenty of information and some good sources of parts for the cartridges.
What you said, all of it.
 
Now I have another problem. I was listening to the only 8-track I own for over an hour and it played fine then suddenly it got very slow. Popped it out, checked the pressure pads which are both good and popped it back in. Played almost correctly then got real slow again. Repeated this several times, same results.

Belt issue? I need to borrow a tool from my friend to extract two deeply recessed 6mm [according to a comment in a YT video] hex nuts to access the belt/motor.
 
Now I have another problem. I was listening to the only 8-track I own for over an hour and it played fine then suddenly it got very slow. Popped it out, checked the pressure pads which are both good and popped it back in. Played almost correctly then got real slow again. Repeated this several times, same results.

Belt issue? I need to borrow a tool from my friend to extract two deeply recessed 6mm [according to a comment in a YT video] hex nuts to access the belt/motor.
Your symptom sounds like the tape pack has wound too tight. There is a certain amount of tension on the tape but too much will make it hard for the capstan to pull the tape from the center of the tape coil. The tape feeds from the=> center of the tape coil =>over the heads=> pulled through the capstan/pinch roller=> onto the outside of the tape coil by the rotation motion imparted by the tape feeding from the center. The diameter of the inside coil is smaller than the outside. This causes a slight tension applied to the takeup side. The original tape pack had slack in the tape to compensate for this. Overtime this slack is lost and the tape coil gets tighter and tighter. This can be the cause of the slowdown. This issue can be corrected if it is the issue. You can have too much slack. The 8 track U-Tubers will go over this. If the capstan belt is stretched/worn this tape tension issue will overpower the capstan/pinch roller more easily. If the tape initially plays but gradually slows I would go with a new belt. If the tape pack is too tight I will play slow or with major WOW, screeching, and weird noises from the start.
 
Now I have another problem. I was listening to the only 8-track I own for over an hour and it played fine then suddenly it got very slow. Popped it out, checked the pressure pads which are both good and popped it back in. Played almost correctly then got real slow again. Repeated this several times, same results.

Belt issue? I need to borrow a tool from my friend to extract two deeply recessed 6mm [according to a comment in a YT video] hex nuts to access the belt/motor.
That could be a problem with the deck such as belt, speed regulator, polished capstan and, not terribly unusual back when, more so with factory tapes, quality tapes such as Maxell seldom, but the tape pack could get tight and a fix was often to remove the cart, slap it a few times, reinsert and often it was good to go. I mostly used Maxell 80 minute tapes and almost never had a problem and the tapes I recorded usually sounded better than the prerecorded ones, maybe always sounded better. I had the Sony 228.

With the slowing, did you try a different tape?
 
First, try another cartridge. It doesn't matter what you buy, you just want to use it to confirm if the tape slowing is too much tension in the tape reel pack. Grab something country or whatever you find cheapest. Try and find something with the felt spring pads instead of the foam pressure pad and all you'll have to do to it is change the foil splice before running it. You don't care what the music is, you just want it for testing.

Regardless, if the foam pressure pad has collapsed or disintegrated in the cart you're now using, it needs to be replaced. It won't cause the tape to slow, but it can make it sound like *hit if the pad had gone bad.

I cannot stress this point enough: the foil tape splice is NOT to be trusted if it's the original. The adhesive goes brittle with age and when you least expecting it, it will separate. The way the 8 track player feeds tape means hat when the splice breaks, it will just continue to feed tape. Since it's no longer going back into the cart onto the "endless reel", it will feed into the machine until enough gets in there that it locks up the capstan and stalls the machine. Then it's a royal mess to get out of the machine and your tape will, in all likelihood, be ruined. Tape splice replacement is the very first thing to be done on any old 8 track tape. And since all 8 track tapes are old now, they all need to be done.

If your cart is found to have too much tension, the only way to "relieve" it is to open the cart, cut the tape splice, take approx 3-5 wraps off the reel and redo the tape splice. Then you have to manually turn the reel to take up the slack again. This takes the excessive tension out of the tape. There is not other way to do it. You have to open the cart and cut the splice.

Once you have eliminated the cart tape pack tension as a reason for the player slowing, you start looking at the machine. I haven't looked at the manual for your model, but the 8 Track players that had DC motors are prone to motor failure. The way it usually presents is the motor will run fine for a period and then start to slow, eventually stopping completely. Let it cool and it will run again and eventually start to slow. I find this is typically excess carbon dust on the commutator (from the motor brushes) in the motor and dry end bearings/bushings. I take them apart and clean/lubricate the motor and it usually returns to normal operation. If it doesn't, the motor is toast and needs a replacement. good luck i that's the case because finding something that works properly in a speed controlled Dc motor8 Track is a nightmare. There are a few custom speed controlled DC motor packages out there, but getting one is again, difficult.

The DC motors with a mechanical governor are a bigger nightmare. Most often, those are just replaced with the electronic speed control motors.

Barry's 8 track used to sell a universal motor (with speed controller) replacement, but the page on his site where he was selling them has been gone for several years now so he may not offer them at all on anything but his full rebuilds now.

If it has an AC motor, it won't have a speed control potentiometer. It will either be locked to the AC mains freq of the grid or it will be mechanically governed. If an AC motor is dying on you, it's pretty much done. I think Barry's 8 track replaces dead AC motors with his DC replacement, but don't quote me on that.

If it runs for a while and starts to slow, I doubt it's the belt, but you can try a new one. I would agree that the belt might be the problem if it ran slow all the time, but not so much running fine and then slowing after a period of running.

Have a look here: https://russellind.com/client/download/PRB_Belt_XRef.pdf and see if your model is listed. Then you can just google or ebay for someone selling the correct belt. It looks like your RE-7070 takes and FRM12.7 belt. That's a pretty common belt for 8 tracks, so someone should have one for sale somewhere.

The cart moving around can be the pressure wheel that hold the cart in, or it might just be a poor design transport to start with. Some of the 8 track players out there were just"cheap to start with and hence the "pcak of matches fix". It worked because the transport was poorly designed and allowed the cart to move around too much in the slot, which messes up the pinch roller/capstan pressures and the head to tape/track alignments. Have a google search and see if anyone has a service manual available for download and then read through it for adjustments to see if there's something that can be done about that. You might have a hard time finding a manual for that one because it's a receiver with an 8 track in it. There's usually not a lot out there on those types of receivers which are often considered "all in ones".

There are so many things that can go wrong in an 8 track that cause poor running it's not funny. Its a combination of just the way the 8 track system is designed and 40+ years of age piled on top of it. You just have to work systematically and go from one possible source to another until you get it all sorted.

And even if you get one playing absolutely perfect, all the factory tapes are experiencing "Print through" to some extent or another by now. So you'll always have a bit of a "ghost track" playing in the background, which makes you think the head alignment is still "off" somehow.

8 racks are fun to mess with, but not for the amateur. You'll find you will know more about them than you ever wanted to before you get yours fully sorted.

I just finished going through my "new to me" Wollensack 8075 and Superscope (Designed by Marantz) TDR-830:

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One 8 track player is never enough. You will find you quickly accumulate them if you get into them. I've got something like 5 or 6 of them around now. Although the Wolly and the TDR-830 is my "endgame" for them.

You can pick them up for a song still and they're just fun to mess around with. They'll never really be serious audio gear (although the Wollensak 8075 comes about as close to it as they will get), but they're just good, cheap fun.

You just gotta learn to love them, warts and all. "Quirky" is the PC word for them these days....LOL!

Most of the 8 track "suckers for punishment" tend to hang out around the "Tape" subforum if you're looking for more info.

Good luck.
 
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Nice find with the RE-7070! congrats,enjoy that gem.
Also,I really like your Scott receiver,I have one also. Bought mine new in 1980,still going strong.
Here it is along with the turntable I bought used at the same time.

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That could be a problem with the deck such as belt, speed regulator, polished capstan and, not terribly unusual back when, more so with factory tapes, quality tapes such as Maxell seldom, but the tape pack could get tight and a fix was often to remove the cart, slap it a few times, reinsert and often it was good to go. I mostly used Maxell 80 minute tapes and almost never had a problem and the tapes I recorded usually sounded better than the prerecorded ones, maybe always sounded better. I had the Sony 228.

With the slowing, did you try a different tape?
I only have one tape at the moment. I will try slapping it a few times. I did watch a few videos about fixing tape tension issues by opening the shell. Will get a few more tapes asap.
 
Nice find with the RE-7070! congrats,enjoy that gem.
Also,I really like your Scott receiver,I have one also. Bought mine new in 1980,still going strong.
Here it is along with the turntable I bought used at the same time.

View attachment 3651452
I picked up the Scott for $15. It worked fine for about 6 months then developed an issue with the phono input. Not in use at the moment since I found a Technics SU-G50 I like a whole lot better.

SU-G50.jpg
 
I slapped the one tape I have a bunch of times and currently it's been playing ok for a few minutes.

"The way it usually presents is the motor will run fine for a period and then start to slow, eventually stopping completely. Let it cool and it will run again and eventually start to slow. I find this is typically excess carbon dust on the commutator (from the motor brushes) in the motor and dry end bearings/bushings." @tourmax

I will report back if it slows again.

EDIT: the one tape I have, James Brown Revolution of The Mind is a twin-pack double LP on one tape. Would this tape be more prone to tension issues having more tape to accomodate the double LP?
 
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I slapped the one tape I have a bunch of times and currently it's been playing ok for a few minutes.

"The way it usually presents is the motor will run fine for a period and then start to slow, eventually stopping completely. Let it cool and it will run again and eventually start to slow. I find this is typically excess carbon dust on the commutator (from the motor brushes) in the motor and dry end bearings/bushings." @tourmax

I will report back if it slows again.

EDIT: the one tape I have, James Brown Revolution of The Mind is a twin-pack double LP on one tape. Would this tape be more prone to tension issues having more tape to accomodate the double LP?
Would it be more prone... generally, yes. My experience is mostly with Maxell and other name brand tapes of 80 minutes which would be more tape than most prerecorded tapes but with few failures. Slapping the tape to clear wow and flutter or tape slowing was common practice at the time. It does sound like your deck might have an issue, hopefully not. Motor issues as outlined by tourmax are most common when issues develop.
 
Not really. All 8 track tapes eventually go a bit “tight”.

It because of how they operate on the “endless loop.
I know, just giving my personal experience with eight tracks at the time when they weren't old, current. Cassettes took over and my old cassettes still play fine but the eight tracks need attention.
 
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