first infinity Speaker?

[OmegaHyperio]

the kappa 8.1 and the ren 90 are higher on the infinity ladder than the Qe, RS4b, modulus, or infinitesimal. the ren 90 is higher on the ladder than the kappa 8.1. the gamma/delta is higher still. be warned, once you get up above a certain grade you'll need to get into bi-amping, external crossovers, and other things i would not recommend to a novice on a budget.


of those mentioned, i'd say buy the kappa 8.1




.

I agree with you on this point, bi-amping is something i am interested in from the start, since my favorite brand of Vintage amps (at least for the time) only has relatively low power models available, the most powerful of the amps from the 70's only has 95W into 4 ohms RMS (i will buy one soon anyway, since i want to complete my 70's optonica amp collection), but can create peaks up to 165W. I only have its small brother, with 65W (4 ohms) at the moment, but that was more of an impulse buy due to its price and condition. I will contact the ebay seller that has the Kappa 8.1i on ebay with a question to remove a bit of confusion with the shipping. But once that has been dealt with i will buy them.

Also i want a bit of an upgrade once a IRS Gamma comes along, eventually.

 

[swechsler]

FWIW, I tried passive biamping a pair of Kappa 8a's (the speakers in my avatar) and did not notice any significant difference in either sound or maximum SPL. The amps involved were a Heathkit AA-1800 for the woofers and a Soundcraftsmen PCR800 for the top. However, the design of the 8.1 is quite a bit different from that of the 8a (the 8a is a sealed design vs the ported 8.1; also the 8a drops to a very low impedance and is therefore not very amp friendly). Whether that would make a difference in your biamping experience, I can't say.

 

[swechsler]

Also i want a bit of an upgrade once a IRS Gamma comes along, eventually.

While this review is for the IRS Beta, the big brother of the Gamma, it's worth reading regarding how temperamental these speakers can be, before you get too obsessed about buying a pair.

Edit: also, keep in mind that replacement L-EMIMs are almost impossible to get, at any price.

 

[OmegaHyperio]

FWIW, I tried passive biamping a pair of Kappa 8a's (the speakers in my avatar) and did not notice any significant difference in either sound or maximum SPL. The amps involved were a Heathkit AA-1800 for the woofers and a Soundcraftsmen PCR800 for the top. However, the design of the 8.1 is quite a bit different from that of the 8a (the 8a drops to a very low impedance and is therefore not very amp friendly). Whether that would make a difference in your biamping experience, I can't say.

Hm, that interesting indeed, i would not have expected that. I wonder what active bi-amping would do to them... :scratch2:

Based on the testimony i have heard from people around the net, infinitys are very power hungry, so it stand to reason that biamping would improve things, even when done without a active crossover (or did i understand passive bi-amping wrong?)

Also i suspected those speakers of being in the kappa line, but not the 8a's, they look very nice, i especially like the look of the polygraph mid bass (i think).

Also whould the kappas kill my 65W Optonica amp if i were to try and drive them using it? Or would it just sound a bit bad?

 

[OmegaHyperio]

While this review is for the IRS Beta, the big brother of the Gamma, it's worth reading regarding how temperamental these speakers can be, before you get too obsessed about buying a pair.

Edit: also, keep in mind that replacement L-EMIMs are almost impossible to get, at any price.

Interesting fact about the IRS line of speakers, i have already read that review, and i found it very interesting, but seeing as the IRS Gamma are not a 4 column speaker i would not need to deal with phasing and placing them.

I also did not expect that the L-EMIM is basically a unique item. I would have expected at least one or 2 per few years to pop up on the net. So if and when i get a IRS series i will have to make sure the L-EMIM is in working condition, and not overpower the speaker with drive power. I hope the L-EMIM can handle rock / metal music as well, i mostly listen to classical and jazz at the moment, but i do listen to metal as well. So can the L-EMIM handle such music, or could damage issue from it. (also i fear that my little cousin will want to play dub step on it... I do not think that will be a good idea, so out of caution i will not allow him to play any of his music on my system)

 

[swechsler]

Also whould the kappas kill my 65W Optonica amp if i were to try and drive them using it? Or would it just sound a bit bad?

Probably won't kill the amp, but I don't know how loud you'd be able to go. My Kappa 8a's are now part of my dedicated home theatre being, driven solely by the Soundcraftsmen amp, and they go louder than I need them to. The Kappa 8.1s are the main speakers in my bedroom system and I have them connected to a fairly pedestrian 12 year old Yamaha surround receiver rated at 90 WPC into 8 ohms. Because it's a bedroom system I don't listen all that loudly, but it certainly doesn't kill the amp, and it does fine when we use it for movies (no subwoofer in this system - the Infinities provide all the bass).

 

[OmegaHyperio]

Probably won't kill the amp, but I don't know how loud you'd be able to go. My Kappa 8a's are now part of my dedicated home theatre being, driven solely by the Soundcraftsmen amp, and they go louder than I need them to. The Kappa 8.1s are the main speakers in my bedroom system and I have them connected to a fairly pedestrian 12 year old Yamaha surround receiver rated at 90 WPC into 8 ohms. Because it's a bedroom system I don't listen all that loudly, but it certainly doesn't kill the amp, and it does fine when we use it for movies (no subwoofer in this system - the Infinities provide all the bass).

Since my usual listening level is usually below 60dB i do not think it will be much of a problem. I asked since the Optonica SM3636 is going to be restored soon, and i don't have much time for amp restorations due to my study's. So before i can get a hold of a SM4646, or even two of them, and then restore them, i will have to use the SM3636. I already restored its smaller brother (with just 38W into 4 ohms) a little while ago, and with my T1 it sounds very nice, the WIMA caps i put in place of most of the signal path caps probably helped in that. I wonder how they will sound with the Kappas...:scratch2:

You system is very interesting, just wondering how do the 8.1 compare to the 8, not that im going to go out and get one instead, the 's would probably more then happily melt down my optonica amps output hybrids.

I just hope that the polydomes on the kappas dont beak...

 

[Seppo]

Since my usual listening level is usually below 60dB i do not think it will be much of a problem. I asked since the Optonica SM3636 is going to be restored soon, and i don't have much time for amp restorations due to my study's. So before i can get a hold of a SM4646, or even two of them, and then restore them, i will have to use the SM3636. I already restored its smaller brother (with just 38W into 4 ohms) a little while ago, and with my T1 it sounds very nice, the WIMA caps i put in place of most of the signal path caps probably helped in that. I wonder how they will sound with the Sigmas...:scratch2:

You system is very interesting, just wondering how do the 8.1 compare to the 8, not that im going to go out and get one instead, the 's would probably more then happily melt down my optonica amps output hybrids.

I just hope that the polydomes on the kappas dont beak...

Even at low volume levels you need a powerful amp with good headroom for best (bass) performance. The bass improved substantially at all volume levels when I went from 140 wpc (Onkyo) to 400 wpc (Emotiva) driving my RS-IIs.

 

[tubed]

I think the 8.1 is a very nice speaker and an improvement over the 8.
Infinity recommends 40 to 300 watts per channel.
I used my 8.1s with a Yamaha CA-1000(70 watts per) driving them quite nicely at realistic listening levels without breaking a sweat.

 

[swechsler]

I think the 8.1 is a very nice speaker and an improvement over the 8.

I've never compared the two (they're too heavy to move around), but I think some Infinity enthusiasts feel the opposite way, partly because of the move from the EMIT (push-pull) to the EMIT-R (single ended).

But to me the EMIT-R sounds very good (and there must be a reason that Genesis Technologies chose to use it in all their models). My bedroom system is all EMIT-R, my theater is a mixture.

 

[chef free]

I think you need something that you can run with your current amp. A speaker which is good but not super-high end.

Have you searched for Qb? It is a three-way speaker with the EMIT tweeter, a 10" (25cm) woofer and an excellent Philips midrange. Many think that it is superior to its successor, the RSb.

 

[lico]

Yeah, Qb would be a good way to go if you want something affordable and are hung up about getting into Infinity speakers. Still have my original Qes - I keep them because they were the first real speaker I ever bought but don't listen to them much because there is so much better out there new today IMO for not much more.

Had a set of Quantum Jrs that I liked a lot when I had them (similar to Qb) but moved them on.

Almost pulled the trigger on getting some Gammas once for $1300 - passed with no regrets now, only because from what I read they are finicky to keep running and spare parts are virtually nil. But if that's on your bucket list - just save up for some higher end Infinities and make a move when the right deal comes up.

 

[OmegaHyperio]

I would rather get the speakers first, then the amp to drive them. But since i will be buying those Optonicas anyway, regardless of what speaker i get, i don't think it will hurt to try them.

 

[OmegaHyperio]

a update, i contacted the seller on ebay asking about the inconsistency with shipping on the Kappas, and it turns out he put the free shipping in by accident. And since they are in Berlin, so about 500km from were i live, i think i will contact him again asking about shipping options, or see if i can find one closer to my location. I kind of expect the shipping to cost about 100 euros. If i go the shipping rout how should the Polydomes be protected, since they stick out of the chassis, i would assume they can be damaged easily while in transit.

 

[swechsler]

a update, i contacted the seller on ebay asking about the inconsistency with shipping on the Kappas, and it turns out he put the free shipping in by accident. And since they are in Berlin, so about 500km from were i live, i think i will contact him again asking about shipping options, or see if i can find one closer to my location. I kind of expect the shipping to cost about 100 euros. If i go the shipping rout how should the Polydomes be protected, since they stick out of the chassis, i would assume they can be damaged easily while in transit.

I would expect shipping those speakers would cost a lot more than that in the US (depending on distance I guess), net weight is apparently 36.5kg (80 lbs) each, gross weight is probably at least 40 kg, not to mention the size, and there are two of them.

Yes, the Polydome midranges do stick out of the cabinet, and as you're probably aware, replacements are expensive. Yours look like they've had some UV exposure due to the yellowing; mine are still relatively clear. If the original cartons are not available, I would probably ask the seller to strap a thin sheet of plywood over the grilles to protect them, or make sure there is at least 8cm of space between the grille and the inside of the (strong) carton. Under no circumstances should any loose fill (what we in the US call "foam peanuts") be used. Alternative would be to remove the polydomes and package them separately, but that may not be practical. I've never been inside my Kappa 8.1's, but the Kappa 8a has all wires soldered to the drivers, and they're quite difficult to remove without causing damage.

 

[Seppo]

a update, i contacted the seller on ebay asking about the inconsistency with shipping on the Kappas, and it turns out he put the free shipping in by accident. And since they are in Berlin, so about 500km from were i live, i think i will contact him again asking about shipping options, or see if i can find one closer to my location. I kind of expect the shipping to cost about 100 euros. If i go the shipping rout how should the Polydomes be protected, since they stick out of the chassis, i would assume they can be damaged easily while in transit.

These are very heavy speakers with slightly protruding parts. I would strongly recommend driving to pick them up yourself. You need a mid sized SUV or mini-van...and you get a trip to Berlin as a freebie

I drove some ~1400 km round trip for my RS-IIIa's and some ~900 km round trip for RS-II's. Knowing that I will get the speakers in good shape home. Both trips definitely worth it.

 

[swechsler]

You need a mid sized SUV or mini-van

I disagree - a midsize sedan or hatchback should be able to handle them with the rear seat down. With care, they could both even be put in the back seat, although that would not be my first choice.

 

[OmegaHyperio]

The choice of vehicle would be my dads minivan, since the other cars we have are too small to carry both speaker simultaneously.

Sadly i do not have the option to drive to Berlin, as it would take too much time away from my mathematics and physics study's at university, if i were between semesters, no problem, but at this time that is not going to work.

i checked a German Craigslist type site to see if any kappas are available close to me, and well i found a kappa 9, Renaissance 90 and only a kappa 8.2i, also a lot of kappa 6.1's for some reason.

the kappa 8.2i would be about a one hour drive from my house, btw.

How would the kappa 8.2i compare to the 8.1i?

Ah that reminds me, i did find a kappa 8.1i close to me, but the polydomes were replaced with these: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...covery-d7608/9200-10-3-dome-midrange-d75mx41/

at least based on the description those should be it. but they are definitively replaced on them. they are also cheaper then the one on ebay.

 

[swechsler]

The 8.2 was never sold in the US, so other than moving the port to the rear, I'm not sure what the difference was. The replacement of the Polydome with the Scanspeak midrange may be a good thing, as the Polydome mids do tend to deteriorate. As I pointed out in an earlier post today, the ones in the original 8.1's you were looking at appeared to have UV damage.

 

[OmegaHyperio]

Here are some interesting fact from the offering with the Scanspeak, the dude is a audiophile and could hear the hardening of the mid range (that he appears to also still have), so he changed the polydomes to the Scanspeak, he also did some work on the crossover, he renewed the NPE's with Mundorfs (probably the same i have played around with, the etched series) He also removed the mid range pot, and replaced it with a resistor to tame the Scanspeak. He claims a immense sonic improvement over the stock. Also the price for this irresistible in my opinion.
Also he said that all mods he did are easily reversible too. Also he claims the speakers were never subjected to UV radiation what so ever.

He also said the he will not ship then, and he demands a listening session prior to purchase, it dose sound nice for the price, and its within 2 hours drive distance .

I will now talk to my dad on the topic of the van, and contact the seller.

Edit: I stand corrected, its 3 hours drive and almost exactly 300km... well that's not good... but is it worth it i wonder... :scratch2:

Those kappa 9's look good too, but i do not have a amp that could drive them, nor will i have one for a time... so no... i will not get the kappa 9...