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First Refoam Problem

cablephil212 said:
OK. I'm throwing my .02 cents in here, because it looks like you're REALLY getting frustrated.

I would not worry too much about the missing paper right now. It's not through the cone, so it might look ugly, but won't affect the cone much, if at all.

Before you proceed to do ANYTHING, get a vac (shop or household), and vac out the inside of the VC (voicecoil). Next, get a business card, and cut it into 1/4" strips lengthwise. Use them to clean out the gap between the VC and the magnet pole (the metal piece inside the VC). Do this at least 3 or 4 times, in a circle around the inside of the VC. Use one, and discard.

Now, before you go gluing the NEW surround on (the one in your pic cannot be re-used), take the speaker wire (either channel will do) from the amp, and connect it to the driver terminal. Place the driver on its magnet (facing up). LOWER the volume on the amp to "0", and turn the amp on. Put a CD on, and SLOWLY increase the volume, but not too much. Just enough to get the cone moving.

Do you hear the "rattle? Does it sound like it's scraping now?

The missing cone paper can be strengthen by brushing some surround glue on it. This has happened to me when removing a surround from a driver also. After I used some glue, I really couldn't tell the difference between a good one, and the one with the damage sound wise.

Post back when you get a chance with the results.

Calm down, and take your time. It'll work out.
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Thanks for your input! I don't have another surround and would really rather not purchase a whole new kit if I don't have to. I cleaned up the surround and the cone contact area a bit and am trying to reuse this surround. I know you're saying I can't do that, but I had already started it. If I can somehow get that to function okay I'd be happier then throwing more money at it. Will clean around the VC as per your instructions and update when I have more info. Thanks again
 
Although I have only refoamed a half dozen or so speakers, I have never removed the dust caps and only centered the vc by hand/eye...I guess I have been very lucky todate...after reading this I think I will go to a tone or battery for my next pair (in a few days)
 
Now the "below part". If you feel the cosmetics aren't to your liking, you can consider two things:

1) Get another CV woofer correct for this speaker, the VS-100. Check ebay item #281548880016 for a single woofer that did not sell, you can contact the seller and see if he'll sell it to you or set up the auction for you to buy-it-now. Yes, it will cost you some money, but you'll have a good looking woofer if that is important to you - and yes, you'll still have to refoam that one!

As we said, an experience builder, but also nice to have a spare woofer around. May cost you $75-90 in the end but if these are your favorite speakers, its a small price to pay.

2) Otherwise, you could send your driver out for a recone - replacement of the entire cone/voice coil/spider and surround with all new parts, done by a pro shop. Orange County Speaker Repair here in California can recone for $59 plus shipping. They can also supply the CV dustcap and surrounds if you need them. Call them for what they can do for a single unit. You might be able to get them to send one each surround and dustcap without glue if you still have the glue if you are still doing it yourself.

http://www.speakerrepair.com/page/RECNEPRC.html

http://www.speakerrepair.com/mm5/me...de=genem&Product_Code=OCSRP335&Category_Code=
 
It's been about an hour since I've glued the inside of the surround and I wanted to play a test. The outside edge hasn't been glued down yet, however I laid the gasket on top and held it down to simulate it staying still. When I do that I hear no hum what-so-ever. I'm hoping this means that little piece of debris is what was causing the issue and that after I finish gluing the outer ring it will work out again.

I don't care too much about the cosmetics of the speaker because I only use these in my bedroom and always have the grills on anyway.
 
mech986 said:
Now the "below part". If you feel the cosmetics aren't to your liking, you can consider two things:

1) Get another CV woofer correct for this speaker, the VS-100. Check ebay item #281548880016 for a single woofer that did not sell, you can contact the seller and see if he'll sell it to you or set up the auction for you to buy-it-now. Yes, it will cost you some money, but you'll have a good looking woofer if that is important to you - and yes, you'll still have to refoam that one!

As we said, an experience builder, but also nice to have a spare woofer around. May cost you $75-90 in the end but if these are your favorite speakers, its a small price to pay.

2) Otherwise, you could send your driver out for a recone - replacement of the entire cone/voice coil/spider and surround with all new parts, done by a pro shop. Orange County Speaker Repair here in California can recone for $59 plus shipping. They can also supply the CV dustcap and surrounds if you need them. Call them for what they can do for a single unit. You might be able to get them to send one each surround and dustcap without glue if you still have the glue if you are still doing it yourself.

http://www.speakerrepair.com/page/RECNEPRC.html

http://www.speakerrepair.com/mm5/me...de=genem&Product_Code=OCSRP335&Category_Code=
Click to expand...

I can not overstate how appreciative I am of your time and effort spent on helping me. I will keep all of this in mind should I wish to address the cosmetic portion of the speakers, for now I just wish to be able to use them.
 
Patience, patience, patience!! If you disturb the glue now, it might shift the surround. Let it dry at least 6-12 hours before testing, and then follow the directions I've outlined.

Do something else with your speakers - like cleaning the cabinets up - if vinyl, clean with a moist wet towel and dry off. If real wood veneer, there are a lot of different ways to clean them up and have them looking quite good, depending on whether they're dirty, have a lot of scratches or imperfections, or have uneven coloring. Please take some pictures and let us see what you're working with.

Youthful enthusiasm is great, but work like this must proceed methodically, and letting glue dry properly is one of the steps.
 
pauvro said:
I can not overstate how appreciative I am of your time and effort spent on helping me. I will keep all of this in mind should I wish to address the cosmetic portion of the speakers, for now I just wish to be able to use them.
Click to expand...

You're very welcome!
 
The instructions I was looking at back when it had been an hour since the inside ring dried stated that after an hour I can do that outside ring. So even though it was not 6-12 hours, I started to glue the outside edge. The entire time I've been doing this the voice coil has been shimmed, my thinking was that it would keep it centered and that's what the instructions I had here said, along with the 1 hour waiting period in between gluing. My question is, am I okay adhering to the instructions I have which state to wait 1 hour for the glue to dry? Knowing where I am at right now should I wait 12 hours before putting the dustcap and gasket back on?

I mean obviously I hadn't fully read all the new replies before starting to glue the outside edge, or I would have just done exactly as you said, however I'm curious as to why a few of the instructions I've seen so far state only an hour of necessary dry time?

Thanks for any further elucidation.
 
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1 hour waiting time MAY work for those who do this often and with all the proper setup and tools. Glues vary in how long it take for them to set up, stay tacky, or dry. I prefer to err on the side of caution and take my time. I also tend to use the tone method, rather than shim.

Since you have shimmed, and if this is the method referred to in your documents, usually the shimming method assumes everything is clean and in alignment, and fixed to stay that way. If the voice coil is firmly centered, then the surround is going to be glued while the VC is centered. If you wait a few hours, the glue bond of cone-surround will be harder, especially if you're working in a warm and dry area. If cool (below 70 deg F), the glue will take longer to harden.

Assuming nothing has moved voice coil shim wise, your outer surround edge should be right over the frame and roughly centered. Then you can work your way around the frame gluing the outer surround down. Try not to pull one one side or the other of the surround when gluing this step, lest it put some "pull" into the surround and cant the voice coil (tilt it) when the shims are taken out. Hopefully, the debris in the gap was the problem and not a voice coil rub due to misalignment.

Good luck, somehow I suspect you'll be trying to play these within 6-12 hours. Take your time and don't rush things along.
 
mech986 said:
1 hour waiting time MAY work for those who do this often and with all the proper setup and tools. Glues vary in how long it take for them to set up, stay tacky, or dry. I prefer to err on the side of caution and take my time. I also tend to use the tone method, rather than shim.

Since you have shimmed, and if this is the method referred to in your documents, usually the shimming method assumes everything is clean and in alignment, and fixed to stay that way. If the voice coil is firmly centered, then the surround is going to be glued while the VC is centered. If you wait a few hours, the glue bond of cone-surround will be harder, especially if you're working in a warm and dry area. If cool (below 70 deg F), the glue will take longer to harden.

Assuming nothing has moved voice coil shim wise, your outer surround edge should be right over the frame and roughly centered. Then you can work your way around the frame gluing the outer surround down. Try not to pull one one side or the other of the surround when gluing this step, lest it put some "pull" into the surround and cant the voice coil (tilt it) when the shims are taken out. Hopefully, the debris in the gap was the problem and not a voice coil rub due to misalignment.

Good luck, somehow I suspect you'll be trying to play these within 6-12 hours. Take your time and don't rush things along.
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I'm going to hope everything centered properly, when I went to do the outer surround edge I noticed it was a lot more centered looking than the first refoam. The glue was actually sticking and staying in spots that it previously had not. I am optimistic that I've made some improvement.

I'll keep you updated!
 
Update: I took my time last night and had some assistance to make sure the VC area was clean of debris and to make sure the surround adhered very nicely everywhere. I also allowed the gasket to adhere overnight by place the speaker upside down to push pressure all around the gasket.

I am happy to report that after waiting for the dustcap to dry this morning, and running multiple tests, I don't hear any rattle at all, and everything sounds really good! I know that a problem might precipitate so I'll be listening closely, but so far it seems we are having success! I'll post some setup pictures sometime soon.

Again, to everyone who offered me their insight and expertise, and even spiritual guidance at times, your assistance kept me going. It's nice to know there are people like you guys out there.

Thanks again!
 
MacNoob said:
Don't mess with them until the glue is COMPLETELY cured.
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I let the gasket adhere overnight while the speaker was upside down. The only thing I glued on today was the dustcap and my instructions said that an hour would be good enough for that...given that I let everything minus the dustcap settle overnight, how long do I have to wait until it's reasonable to assume it's completely cured? Sorry if this question is redundant.
 
Only you know how much & what kind of glue you used - that affects how long it takes to cure. Worst that happens is it falls apart and you have to glue it again....
 
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