N9JCQ
Active Member
I saw this post in CL today. I never heard of these before? Anyone ever hear these? http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/ele/1441635869.html
Fisher Planex Speakers?
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Wooferman93
My systems louder
Talk about goddy...
The only Fishers I ever truely heard of are the Studio Standards.
The only Fishers I ever truely heard of are the Studio Standards.
DavidGoncalv
Active Member
Seach the forum for BERTAGNI for a general discussion on the technology.
Money is better spent elsewhere...
Money is better spent elsewhere...
Ohighway
Wannabe Minimalist
Hmmmmm ..... looks real familiar. Check this link...
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/ele/1439072934.html
Wonder if they're like the old Poly-planar ( styrofoam) speakers from years ago ??
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/ele/1439072934.html
Wonder if they're like the old Poly-planar ( styrofoam) speakers from years ago ??
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Brian
An Old Geezer
Yes, the same speaker. BES developed the technology and besides itself licensed it to Yamaha, Fisher and I believe Leak (if not Leak then another UK manufacturer who gave up everything else to develop the speakers).
I did not realize BES made panels for Fisher. I thought Fisher had made their own.
In these days of 6.1, etc. the technology makes sense.
I did not realize BES made panels for Fisher. I thought Fisher had made their own.
In these days of 6.1, etc. the technology makes sense.
I think you have the sequence backwards -- I believe Leak was the first to market a styrofoam driver, the Sandwich, called that because it had a styrofoam cone with an aluminum foil damping layer glued on the front (styrofoam apparantly has a vicious 400 hz or so resonance, and the foil controls that peak). Those drivers were very well built but other than the cone material (and mass loading) were essentially conventional drivers. Then KEF and Yamaha came along with their drivers, the KEF B139 and the Yamaha ear shaped speaker. Both eschewed the cone shape to limit resonance, the KEF using a squared off oval with a flat frontbut pyramidal back, and the Yamaha an assymetrical conish shape, both with the foil laminate. Then there was IMF with its Styrene Pressure driver, which had its suspension in the middle(!). I've seen pictures of the driver, but never grasped the theory or construction thereof.
The BES drivers and the Polyplanars were both attempts to break into the mass market, so they dumped the expensive foil laminate, and went with corrugations cast into the styrofoam to allow more or less full range use, though the BES ones had two voice coils with a cross over (IIRC) acting as a woofer and a tweeter.
Neither were all that successful, though the BES was a much better design (and much more expensive). Styrofoam isn't really well enough behaved to be an easy piston material -- with treatment, it can be very successful, but without, its very compromised.
Those violin shaped holes though with the Fisher Sound Panels radiate are an attempt to spread resonances, by the way.
The BES drivers and the Polyplanars were both attempts to break into the mass market, so they dumped the expensive foil laminate, and went with corrugations cast into the styrofoam to allow more or less full range use, though the BES ones had two voice coils with a cross over (IIRC) acting as a woofer and a tweeter.
Neither were all that successful, though the BES was a much better design (and much more expensive). Styrofoam isn't really well enough behaved to be an easy piston material -- with treatment, it can be very successful, but without, its very compromised.
Those violin shaped holes though with the Fisher Sound Panels radiate are an attempt to spread resonances, by the way.
Brian
An Old Geezer
Leak had the Sandwich but it was not the same technology as what BES developed and patented. The Leak was a conventional driver with the sandwiched cone. BES while in SA licensed the technology to Yamaha. Yamaha in the proguct whitepaper mentioned the license agreement. The agreements with BES were not restricted to locking in the technology and permitted each licensee to use it as a basis for its own development. I am not aware of any relationship with KEF or IMF and BES.
BES 1st interoduced its speakers into the US market while still in SA and then opened an office in the US and finally moved here permanently. When we looked at BES for distribution we had some interesting conversations where they disclosed the agreements b/c of concerns the technology licensing would result in a competing product just down the street. It happened b/c we had a Yamaha dealer not far from us but we could live with it.
I've seen Fisher panels referenced to licensed from BES but the ones on the the site say made by BES which is interesting.
I remember reading some years ago that a U.K. manufacturer sold its equipment manufacturing of electronics to concentrate on further development of the speaker and seem to remember it was Leak. I know Leak had licensed the technology for further development in the eary '70s.
BES at least until not long ago was still active and in California being run by the son. They still offered the environmentally unfriendly line for things like buses and outdoors and custom in-wall systems but nothing like what the SM series that exposed them to the audio public. I was on a hybrid bus up here not long ago and noticed the speaker grill that reminded me of the white plastic grill/driver that BES offered so I think they are still producing.
BES 1st interoduced its speakers into the US market while still in SA and then opened an office in the US and finally moved here permanently. When we looked at BES for distribution we had some interesting conversations where they disclosed the agreements b/c of concerns the technology licensing would result in a competing product just down the street. It happened b/c we had a Yamaha dealer not far from us but we could live with it.
I've seen Fisher panels referenced to licensed from BES but the ones on the the site say made by BES which is interesting.
I remember reading some years ago that a U.K. manufacturer sold its equipment manufacturing of electronics to concentrate on further development of the speaker and seem to remember it was Leak. I know Leak had licensed the technology for further development in the eary '70s.
BES at least until not long ago was still active and in California being run by the son. They still offered the environmentally unfriendly line for things like buses and outdoors and custom in-wall systems but nothing like what the SM series that exposed them to the audio public. I was on a hybrid bus up here not long ago and noticed the speaker grill that reminded me of the white plastic grill/driver that BES offered so I think they are still producing.
WilsonCreek
Active Member
Bet you got some PMs in your inbox.
That 's the same thing I was thinking when I read that last night. If I lived closer, I would have been the first in line.
Nat & Brian, thank you for taking the time to post the information regarding the Yamaha, BES, and Leak speakers. I happen to have speakers from all three lines, and although I have read up on each, you provided some interesting insight. Of the three, the BES are my favorite; I currently have them paired with a Marantz 2215B, and am pleased with the combination. The Yamahas are cool to look at but least favorite, and the Leaks are of course a different kind of speaker. To me the Leak midrange and upper midrange are very detailed and great for speech/vocals, but I find them fatiguing speakers when listening to music. One night my wife and I were watching Good Eats / Alton Brown with the Leaks and we realized that we could hear, quietly but distinctly, his voice echoing in his kitchen. Thanks again--Chris
aidynphoenix
Super Member
how to they sound though?
i have the option to get some right now.. and am ready to hop on it!
they look really cool and i could find manny places to put them.
i imagine they dont have much for the bass dept.. but other than that?
i have the option to get some right now.. and am ready to hop on it!
they look really cool and i could find manny places to put them.
i imagine they dont have much for the bass dept.. but other than that?
I think the general opinion of the various styrofoam speakers is fairly clear -- problematic, though certain aspects of their performance is very promising, and some of the more expensive implementations are excellent. But the BES and Fisher panels that are the main focus of the thread are not, in my view at least, in that elite group. The BES have in their favor that they were more ambitious (and expensive) and meant to be used as dipoles which, when used properly, allows their virtues to be more fully exploited. The Fishers, though were smaller and meant to be hung on walls in most cases, and that's not a really very good implementation of the design.
aidynphoenix
Super Member
well i picked them up today.. only $20 per speaker.
they are in fantastic condition.
they sound ok.. the highs are a bit much sometimes.. but they dont lack the lows either.. its all there.. its just not really good.. but than again they dont sound like cheap desktop speakers either..
they look pretty cool if you ask me..
i've never had speakers like these b4.. so its a new chapter for me.
it opens up a bit of headroom for differnt setup ideas..
i just wish i had more rooms to put systems in
they are in fantastic condition.
they sound ok.. the highs are a bit much sometimes.. but they dont lack the lows either.. its all there.. its just not really good.. but than again they dont sound like cheap desktop speakers either..
they look pretty cool if you ask me..
i've never had speakers like these b4.. so its a new chapter for me.
it opens up a bit of headroom for differnt setup ideas..
i just wish i had more rooms to put systems in
inperson
Active Member
well i picked them up today.. only $20 per speaker.
they are in fantastic condition.
they sound ok.. the highs are a bit much sometimes.. but they dont lack the lows either.. its all there.. its just not really good.. but than again they dont sound like cheap desktop speakers either..
they look pretty cool if you ask me..
i've never had speakers like these b4.. so its a new chapter for me.
it opens up a bit of headroom for differnt setup ideas..
i just wish i had more rooms to put systems in
Do you still have them?
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