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Fixing my late grandfather's Dual 1019

brianfulda

brianfulda

New Member
Hi all,

I am hoping to find someone super familiar with the Dual 1019.

I am pretty novice when it comes to turntables, and I inherited my grandfather's 1019 when he passed.

It would engage the motor when clicked to "start" but the motor would not continuously run. The "stop" motor put the tonearm back in its resting place.

I have been trying hard to get it to work again, so I took it to a reputable repair shop where I live. They originally fixed it by replacing the motor, but when I took it home it was only running at around 30rpm. I brought it back, and they confirmed the issue but also noticed it would run at up to 40rpm as well. So they replaced it with another motor, but it exhibited the same issue. The repair shop also closed for good last week :(

They basically told me the turntable is not repairable because of the unreliability of ~60 year old motors. I trust them of course, but I also know there are many smoothly operating Dual 1019s out there. They told me everything else on the turntable is in great working condition.

It would give me the greatest joy to have this working again. Is it worth it to try to keep looking for another motor, or is this a lost cause?

Thanks to everyone for your help.
 
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Great turntable, well worth repairing. I tried to attach the service guides, but the files are too big. I can throw them in a Dropbox tomorrow. Once you have it working, get a new bearing and idler wheel from audio vault.ca. They also have all of the lubricants.
 
I found the website that hosts the service guides. Go to http://dualcan.com/ and look for the service info link. Download the motor service guide and the cam service guide. Chances are you need to do both.

I also suggest you get a new cartridge sled from eBay seller Best Audio.
 
brianfulda said:
Hi all,

I am hoping to find someone super familiar with the Dual 1019.

I am pretty novice when it comes to turntables, and I inherited my grandfather's 1019 when he passed.

It would engage the motor when clicked to "start" but the motor would not continuously run. The "stop" motor put the tonearm back in its resting place.

I have been trying hard to get it to work again, so I took it to a reputable repair shop where I live. They originally fixed it by replacing the motor, but when I took it home it was only running at around 30rpm. I brought it back, and they confirmed the issue but also noticed it would run at up to 40rpm as well. So they replaced it with another motor, but it exhibited the same issue. The repair shop also closed for good last week :(

They basically told me the turntable is not repairable because of the unreliability of ~60 year old motors. I trust them of course, but I also know there are many smoothly operating Dual 1019s out there. They told me everything else on the turntable is in great working condition.

It would give me the greatest joy to have this working again. Is it worth it to try to keep looking for another motor, or is this a lost cause?

Thanks to everyone for your help.
Click to expand...
Those motors are fine and can be rebuilt by disassembly, cleaning, lubrication and reassembly. The motor, nothing inherent about those motors is a problem. Dual lovers here will guide you if willing to get into it. Those are good tables and can be restored to original operating condition without great expense. Given it's history, grandfather, I'd go through it with expectations of enjoying it for years ahead.
 
You could review one of my Dual1019 restores...https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/dual-1019-restoration.834638/

I also researched other 1019 restore posts as references to what I was doing... This is one example... Check out what others have completed too to develop your personal plan for restoration.

The Dual 1019 & 1229(Q) turntables are my favorites to restore.

Have fun...you will be glad to get it up and running!
 
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brianfulda said:
Hi all,

I am hoping to find someone super familiar with the Dual 1019.

I am pretty novice when it comes to turntables, and I inherited my grandfather's 1019 when he passed.

It would engage the motor when clicked to "start" but the motor would not continuously run. The "stop" motor put the tonearm back in its resting place.

I have been trying hard to get it to work again, so I took it to a reputable repair shop where I live. They originally fixed it by replacing the motor, but when I took it home it was only running at around 30rpm. I brought it back, and they confirmed the issue but also noticed it would run at up to 40rpm as well. So they replaced it with another motor, but it exhibited the same issue. The repair shop also closed for good last week :(

They basically told me the turntable is not repairable because of the unreliability of ~60 year old motors. I trust them of course, but I also know there are many smoothly operating Dual 1019s out there. They told me everything else on the turntable is in great working condition.

It would give me the greatest joy to have this working again. Is it worth it to try to keep looking for another motor, or is this a lost cause?

Thanks to everyone for your help.
Click to expand...
Another tip: When you activate the Start cycle, you must hold it a few seconds until the automatic cycle begins, then let it go. If you don't it will activate Stop and the tonearm goes back to the rest position. Hope this help.
 
KentTeffeteller said:
Another tip: When you activate the Start cycle, you must hold it a few seconds until the automatic cycle begins, then let it go. If you don't it will activate Stop and the tonearm goes back to the rest position. Hope this help.
Click to expand...
Thank you, I was aware of this but appreciate the tip. The issue is with the motor itself for sure.
 
ChristopherP said:
For Dual, see 'similar threads' but I think you'd be hard pressed to get better than this outfit. Well known, fair prices. I am not a Dual owner, but if I was I'd try these folks.
https://fixmydual.com/
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Well, I contacted them and this was the response I got:

"We don't support the 10XX series and don't know of anyone who does. - Bill"

Not exactly helpful. I find it hard to believe this turntable is bricked and can't be repaired...
 
ArDrakho said:
You could review one of my Dual1019 restores...https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/dual-1019-restoration.834638/

I also researched other 1019 restore posts as references to what I was doing... This is one example... Check out what others have completed too to develop your personal plan for restoration.

The Dual 1019 & 1229(Q) turntables are my favorites to restore.

Have fun...you will be glad to get it up and running!
Click to expand...
This is very nicely done! I think I would have to completely rebuild the motor, which I'm not sure I'm cut out for. Do you still offer repair services?
 
brianfulda said:
This link leads to a blank page for me
Click to expand...
Works for me. Perhaps you have an add on to your browser or some kind of blocker.

Dualcan is Klaus and he works on all Duals. Well, maybe not the contemporary ones. I’ve never asked.

He’s a semi-retired ex-Dual service technician. Factory trained and equipped.

Klaus was the orginator of the broken dearing ring replacement that used to be sold though Shapeways.

If it’s a Dual and Klaus can’t fix it, then it can’t be fixed.

I do Dual belt drive tables and 1229/1229Q’s mostly.

Here’s my personal 1249 (belt) and 1229Q (idler):

IMG_9213.jpeg

I only do work for friends and family though.

I’ve worked on a few 1019’s. They’re pretty much the same as the 12xx tables, just with a 10” platter instead of a 12”. There’s a few other differences, but they’re either not very significant or cosmetic.

For the record, no Dual is ever beyond “fixable”. It’s just a question of how much and how long…
 
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I'd say that the turntable place doesn't know Dual's very well.

The motors int eh idler tables are beasts. They run forever with just a little servicing.

I'd also say they didn't adjust the motor spindle properly. It's the brass piece that runs the idler wheel:

N_qunpPg.jpeg

The spindle (pulley in Dual's terms) is adjustable up and down on the motor shaft via a small grub screw. If the platter is running too slow, you simply raise the spindle slightly by loosing the grub screw and moving the spindle. That's what's considered the gross motor speed adjustment. You ge teht spindle as close to 33 rpm as you can with that and then you can adjust slightly up or down with the pitch adjust. But you need it as close as possible to stat with as the pitch adjust has a very small range of movement.

There's also a 50hz spindle and a 60 hz spindle. One for NA and one for Europe. The motors are the same, but if they swapped on a European spec motor with the wrong spindle for NA, the speed is going to be wrong.

Don't take it back to those guys, they've already caused you more trouble than they are worth. I'm willing to bet there wasn't anything wrong with your first motor that a serving wouldn't of fixed. Your original problem sound more like it was bound up in the gearing from old grease and such. Most Dual tables don't require much more than a thorough cleaning and re-lubricating (with the proper lubricants in the proper places) to be brought back to proper operation.

There's also a little rubber "steuerpimple" that deteriorates over time and usually needs to be replaced for proper operation.

You need to find someone who know the little idiosyncrasies or Dual mechanical tables. They obviously don't.

Or learn it yourself. It's all mechanical. If you're got half a head for mechanics on your shoulders you can service a Dual table.
 
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brianfulda said:
This link leads to a blank page for me
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I've had that problem with the site before on mobile browsers. Try these direct links:

Cam service: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ywo8...5-08.pdf?rlkey=3q8oiwwr99o08hsb9zy0et97l&dl=0

Motor service: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/u7ke...5-08.pdf?rlkey=nobhbsxcfs6ukb5906g49ki80&dl=0

Repair stand plans: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/s1k8...5-08.pdf?rlkey=b3ql74y87clpvf5jdcfwowevw&dl=0

Also useful:

https://audiovault.ca/ - has all the lubrication products you'll need, plus the upgraded bearing and idler wheel are great.
 
tourmax said:
I'd say that the turntable place doesn't know Dual's very well.

The motors int eh idler tables are beasts. They run forever with just a little servicing.

I'd also say they didn't adjust the motor spindle properly. It's the brass piece that runs the idler wheel:

View attachment 3596866

The spindle (pulley in Dual's terms) is adjustable up and down on the motor shaft via a small grub screw. If the platter is running too slow, you simply raise the spindle slightly by loosing the grub screw and moving the spindle. That's what's considered the gross motor speed adjustment. You ge teht spindle as close to 33 rpm as you can with that and then you can adjust slightly up or down with the pitch adjust. But you need it as close as possible to stat with as the pitch adjust has a very small range of movement.

There's also a 50hz spindle and a 60 hz spindle. One for NA and one for Europe. The motors are the same, but if they swapped on a European spec motor with the wrong spindle for NA, the speed is going to be wrong.

Don't take it back to those guys, they've already caused you more trouble than they are worth. You need someone who know the little idiosyncrasies or Dual mechanical tables. They obviously don't.
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Thank you very much, and I agree with you. In fact, I'm kind of sad I spent the money I did, but I am willing to spend more since this turntable has such sentimental value to me. I have my grandfather's speakers too. He and my grandmother used this stereo setup to spin records throughout my dad's childhood in their living room.

I spoke to Seth (@NoTransistors), a respected Dual servicer, on the phone earlier and he graciously offered his time and advice. He recommended that I try a new idler wheel and platter spindle bearings. A gentleman in Canada makes these with a CNC machine. Seth said to start there (it's an easy DIY fix even for someone like me) and get back to him if I run into more issues. So I will wait for those to come in and attempt the repair myself. But I have to make sure the new motor they replaced is working...
 
brianfulda said:
Thank you very much, and I agree with you. In fact, I'm kind of sad I spent the money I did, but I am willing to spend more since this turntable has such sentimental value to me. I have my grandfather's speakers too. He and my grandmother used this stereo setup to spin records throughout my dad's childhood in their living room.

I spoke to Seth (@NoTransistors), a respected Dual servicer, on the phone earlier and he graciously offered his time and advice. He recommended that I try a new idler wheel and platter spindle bearings. A gentleman in Canada makes these with a CNC machine. Seth said to start there (it's an easy DIY fix even for someone like me) and get back to him if I run into more issues. So I will wait for those to come in and attempt the repair myself. But I have to make sure the new motor they replaced is working...
Click to expand...
Also, if you do servicing, take multiple pictures of everything before you do anything and, with a Dual, never bend anything, tempting as it might be, never bend anything. Cleaning of old lubricants is very often all that is needed. Dual tables are good machines. That place telling you the motor was bad, then the replacement is bad... stay away from them.
 
brianfulda said:
Thank you very much, and I agree with you. In fact, I'm kind of sad I spent the money I did, but I am willing to spend more since this turntable has such sentimental value to me. I have my grandfather's speakers too. He and my grandmother used this stereo setup to spin records throughout my dad's childhood in their living room.

I spoke to Seth (@NoTransistors), a respected Dual servicer, on the phone earlier and he graciously offered his time and advice. He recommended that I try a new idler wheel and platter spindle bearings. A gentleman in Canada makes these with a CNC machine. Seth said to start there (it's an easy DIY fix even for someone like me) and get back to him if I run into more issues. So I will wait for those to come in and attempt the repair myself. But I have to make sure the new motor they replaced is working...
Click to expand...
Yep. That would be Bruno at Audiovault.

I've beta tested a couple things for him. Nice guy.

I run his CNC idler on my 1229Q:

fr_4448.jpg

I also run his moly center bearing on the 1229Q and the belt drive 1249.
 
The 1019 is a nice little table and performs well.

Besides the personal investment you have with it, you'll also be getting a fine spinner once it's back up to snuff that will very likely outlast you. It can be something you can hand down to your own kids/grand-kids one day.

Good luck.
 
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