"Fluxion NT-6, Can You Explain?"

[Newjin]

Looks like a very well built amp. You'd probably need to see a schematic to tell exactly what's going on.

Unfortunately he is hesitant as I have been asking for one especially to bias the tubes.
As good of a builder he is im having trouble getting schematic from him .
Anyone know what I should be looking at for biasing the 845 and 211 in this power amplifier

 

[FlaCharlie]

Unfortunately he is hesitant as I have been asking for one especially to bias the tubes.
As good of a builder he is im having trouble getting schematic from him .
Anyone know what I should be looking at for biasing the 845 and 211 in this power amplifier

I have no experience with either of those tubes but I've heard of them being used at a wide variety of voltages so I assume an equally wide variety of bias points are used.

If there's not a bias adjustment pot(s) or test points to connect a meter I would assume that it's cathode biased, aka auto-bias, which requires no adjustment.

Didn't the amp come with a manual or some basic instructions? If not, I suppose you should ask the builder.

Since you own serial #0001 of his amp and he's building you serial #0001 of his preamp, I'm guessing you're his only customer, so far. I would think he'd be happy to answer any questions about how to operate them, even if he is unwilling to provide a schematic.

Please post and let us know.

 

[Newjin]

I have no experience with either of those tubes but I've heard of them being used at a wide variety of voltages so I assume an equally wide variety of bias points are used.

If there's not a bias adjustment pot(s) or test points to connect a meter I would assume that it's cathode biased, aka auto-bias, which requires no adjustment.

Didn't the amp come with a manual or some basic instructions? If not, I suppose you should ask the builder.

Since you own serial #0001 of his amp and he's building you serial #0001 of his preamp, I'm guessing you're his only customer, so far. I would think he'd be happy to answer any questions about how to operate them, even if he is unwilling to provide a schematic.

Please post and let us know.

Thanks for the reply.
Yes there are bias adjustment pots and I just checked them the 845 is biased to 63.5 as of right now and the other was just off at 62
And the 211 was biased at 43 and the other was at 41.
Most of all of my questions have been answered although h wouldn't give me the bais point. Or the optimum bias points for the power amp to operate at optimum levels.
Said he would do it but he also lives 3 hrs away.

So in that sense it still doesn't feel like mine.
You know what I mean . Not like I'm going to get inside and tear it apart.
I just want to know what I'm dealing with.

 

[Newjin]

I have no experience with either of those tubes but I've heard of them being used at a wide variety of voltages so I assume an equally wide variety of bias points are used.

If there's not a bias adjustment pot(s) or test points to connect a meter I would assume that it's cathode biased, aka auto-bias, which requires no adjustment.

Didn't the amp come with a manual or some basic instructions? If not, I suppose you should ask the builder.

Since you own serial #0001 of his amp and he's building you serial #0001 of his preamp, I'm guessing you're his only customer, so far. I would think he'd be happy to answer any questions about how to operate them, even if he is unwilling to provide a schematic.

Please post and let us know.

I did ask for a manual and nope no manual.
Young sent me a email with basic information turning it on and such.
And I thought the same why is he not willing to give a write up.
And I cam to the conclusion its to protect his builds as I'm sure there is no copyright to his builds.
Thats all I can come up with as to why he won't send me anything like that.
Great piece nonetheless.

 

[gadget73]

if you want to figure out what those numbers mean in current, with the amp off measure the resistance between the test points. The voltage / resistance = current in amps.

or pop the cover off, pretty fair bet you can determine what the bias resistor is without much fuss.

 

[FlaCharlie]

Thanks for the reply.
Yes there are bias adjustment pots and I just checked them the 845 is biased to 63.5 as of right now and the other was just off at 62
And the 211 was biased at 43 and the other was at 41.
Most of all of my questions have been answered although h wouldn't give me the bais point. Or the optimum bias points for the power amp to operate at optimum levels.
Said he would do it but he also lives 3 hrs away.

So in that sense it still doesn't feel like mine.
You know what I mean . Not like I'm going to get inside and tear it apart.
I just want to know what I'm dealing with.

He wouldn't tell you what the correct bias points are??

You would think he would be bending over backwards to make sure his very first customer is happy and knows how to operate the amp correctly.

That's critical information to know if the amp has adjustable bias. Bias changes as tubes age and it must be checked and readjusted periodically.

And you can't go by the bias points used by other amps because the voltages in your amp may not be similar and it's the combination of voltage and bias current that matters.

I understand that builders who are trying to sell a product that is as least somewhat unique might not want to give you a schematic. And, while the amp might have some unique features, I seriously doubt anything about it is patentable.

But info on correct bias points and how to set them is basic operating information.

You shouldn't have to visit him in order to get that information. Can't you just call him or email him?

 

[Newjin]

if you want to figure out what those numbers mean in current, with the amp off measure the resistance between the test points. The voltage / resistance = current in amps.

or pop the cover off, pretty fair bet you can determine what the bias resistor is without much fuss.

Okay i might need some guidance locating those test points and what I'm looking for in terms of the bias resistor.

 

[Newjin]

He wouldn't tell you what the correct bias points are??

You would think he would be bending over backwards to make sure his very first customer is happy and knows how to operate the amp correctly.

That's critical information to know if the amp has adjustable bias. Bias changes as tubes age and it must be checked and readjusted periodically.

And you can't go by the bias points used by other amps because the voltages in your amp may not be similar and it's the combination of voltage and bias current that matters.

I understand that builders who are trying to sell a product that is as least somewhat unique might not want to give you a schematic. And, while the amp might have some unique features, I seriously doubt anything about it is patentable.

But info on correct bias points and how to set them is basic operating information.

You shouldn't have to visit him in order to get that information. Can't you just call him or email him?

I know Charlie, I thought it was super weird that he would not give me that information on paper as a write up.

I have gotten work done on my marantz model 18 and there was a 20 page write up containing everything that was done on it and schematic on everything.

I was floored when I asked him and he just wouldn't give me an answer even when I said the exact same things I mean operating it in the most ideal and safe conditions based on the build of the amp....
Still nothing lol so I stopped trying and started doing research myself.

And that was my whole point to him was what if I moved even farther away and could drive to him.
Or he went out of business and I had to take it to another tech / builder to do maintenance on it.
Like I'm **** out of luck.

 

[maxhifi]

I know Charlie, I thought it was super weird that he would not give me that information on paper as a write up.

I have gotten work done on my marantz model 18 and there was a 20 page write up containing everything that was done on it and schematic on everything.

I was floored when I asked him and he just wouldn't give me an answer even when I said the exact same things I mean operating it in the most ideal and safe conditions based on the build of the amp....
Still nothing lol so I stopped trying and started doing research myself.

And that was my whole point to him was what if I moved even farther away and could drive to him.
Or he went out of business and I had to take it to another tech / builder to do maintenance on it.
Like I'm **** out of luck.

I'd be kind of tempted to reverse engineer it and post the schematic on the internet, after that kind of attitude!

 

[gadget73]

Okay i might need some guidance locating those test points and what I'm looking for in terms of the bias resistor.

I was under the impression you had measured something on some sort of test jack since you gave a number. Unless I misunderstood?

 

[Newjin]

I was under the impression you had measured something on some sort of test jack since you gave a number. Unless I misunderstood?

oh ya sorry I just use my multimeter to test what the tubes are running at and am using that number as reference until I can get the true number that it should be running at for optimum performance.

 

[Newjin]

I'd be kind of tempted to reverse engineer it and post the schematic on the internet, after that kind of attitude!

Its honestly been like pulling teeth to get any information on this power amp from him lol.
Even if you watch his video on YouTube they are pretty vague compared to other Youtubers.

Honestly if I had the know how I would definitely try to reverse engineer it.

Its crazy because I kinda feel like it not even mine.

Some people push their gear and some baby it at the end of the day its their gear that they bought and should have the choice to do as they please.

Manual com Standerd with any vintage piece and I used that as a reference in one of my emails to him saying I he had someone bring him a tube amplifier from years past and he couldn't find schematic or user manual or find any information on said piece.
How he would go about fixing or repairing let alone knowing where to start.

I also told him every piece you can find info on but nothing on the amp I just bought.
Throw me a f@#$ing bone here
Lol sorry rant over

 

[LinderK]

Take the bottom cover off and post a (good) picture

 

[Newjin]

Take the bottom cover off and post a (good) picture

I will for sure he a great guy but I have been left in the dark with what I am dealing with.

 

[FlaCharlie]

oh ya sorry I just use my multimeter to test what the tubes are running at and am using that number as reference until I can get the true number that it should be running at for optimum performance.

Where are you connecting your meter? Please post a pic of that and the adjustment pots.

I looked at the listings of what he has for sale earlier. It looks like you may be the only owner of this particular model. He may have only built one. He does have several other designs for sale.

I saw a very recent post (3 days ago) on his YouTube video of someone asking to buy the same model and he said they were sold out. When the same guy posted again he asked him to send an email.

I would say that you should bring up his poor customer support on the site where he lists items for sale but then I saw that you already posted a glowing review in November in which you praised his customer support. So, unless you can add to or change your feedback, that ship might have sailed.

The crazy thing is that, if the bias is in fact adjustable, there is absolutely no valid reason to withhold that information. Are you sure there's an adjustment pot? Pics please.

 

[Newjin]

Where are you connecting your meter? Please post a pic of that and the adjustment pots.

I looked at the listings of what he has for sale earlier. It looks like you may be the only owner of this particular model. He may have only built one. He does have several other designs for sale.

I saw a very recent post (3 days ago) on his YouTube video of someone asking to buy the same model and he said they were sold out. When the same guy posted again he asked him to send an email.

I would say that you should bring up his poor customer support on the site where he lists items for sale but then I saw that you already posted a glowing review in November in which you praised his customer support. So, unless you can add to or change your feedback, that ship might have sailed.

The crazy thing is that, if the bias is in fact adjustable, there is absolutely no valid reason to withhold that information. Are you sure there's an adjustment pot? Pics please.

Yes he was vary helpful and answered a lot of my questions but and this is a big but on my part I was super excited as this was my first tube amplifier let alone a SE 845/ 211.
Yes I did leave a glorious review as I am super happy with everything at that point
And I genuinelywant to help out small business and know he makes great gear just at this point pretty shitty customer service
.but as I realized I needed more information. I didn't ask for a operating manual in the beginning as I thought it would just come with.
Then when I started asking for certain information that when I quickly found out that he was not going to give it up.
For whatever reason.
And don't get me wrong I love it i just want to make sure I operate it in spec based on the circuit.

This was one of the email he sent me when I asked about manual and bias adjustment numbers

"""Yes you are right.
Bias voltage of 845 and 211 is different. The reason why I don't provide a manual for customers is to prevent "unexpected damage" by mis-adjustment. Some of my amps don't have variable resistors to protect amps. They don't complain about that. Works fine for years.

Please understand it.
Please don't adjust it, keep it in perfect condition. Let's talk later""""

And that was that

 

[maxhifi]

So put your multimeter probes into the VK4 and GND test sockets (and VK3 and GND), and make a voltage measurement. Then write it down, and keep it adjusted to these values. Check it once ever year or so and when you buy new tubes. Do the same for both types of tubes. If the goal here is to keep it working like new, that will do it. It sounds like he built it with so much bias range that it is possible to adjust it wrong and burn up the tubes. He must be withholding info in a misguided effort to protect owners.

It is a long standing audiophile tradition to not provide schematics. Ever see a schematic for a Krell KSA250? Yeah me neither!

 

[Newjin]

So put your multimeter probes into the VK4 and GND test sockets (and VK3 and GND), and make a voltage measurement. Then write it down, and keep it adjusted to these values. Check it once ever year or so and when you buy new tubes. Do the same for both types of tubes. If the goal here is to keep it working like new, that will do it. It sounds like he built it with so much bias range that it is possible to adjust it wrong and burn up the tubes. He must be withholding info in a misguided effort to protect owners.

It is a long standing audiophile tradition to not provide schematics. Ever see a schematic for a Krell KSA250? Yeah me neither!

I did that and so I have the values and will stay withing them to operate the amplifier no big deal.
But there will come a day where ill have to get it looked at and if its not by the builder himself im paying good money to take it to someone to try and figure out whats going on in there.
But from my understanding tubes sway and loose power as time goes on obviously shortened if biased high and pushed hard but.
So if did as he asked and didn't check and see that one tube was off by a certain number and where not running at the same values would that not put strain on the tubes and or gear.
Which is why you would want to let people know those values it really makes no sense to me personally.
Yes high voltage tubes and amps are dangerous but so are cars, guns and everything else you still need to have written literature on how to operate and what it the consist of.

But we are talking about audiophiles here and we'll ill just leave it at that.

 

[maxhifi]

I did that and so I have the values and will stay withing them to operate the amplifier no big deal.
But there will come a day where ill have to get it looked at and if its not by the builder himself im paying good money to take it to someone to try and figure out whats going on in there.
But from my understanding tubes sway and loose power as time goes on obviously shortened if biased high and pushed hard but.
So if did as he asked and didn't check and see that one tube was off by a certain number and where not running at the same values would that not put strain on the tubes and or gear.
Which is why you would want to let people know those values it really makes no sense to me personally.
Yes high voltage tubes and amps are dangerous but so are cars, guns and everything else you still need to have written literature on how to operate and what it the consist of.

But we are talking about audiophiles here and we'll ill just leave it at that.

So 211 or 845? Which sounds better?

 

[Newjin]

View attachment 2088585 View attachment 2088585 View attachment 2088585

So 211 or 845? Which sounds better?

845 push 18 watts although I'm sure I'm only using probably 1/4 of that.
Soundstage is wide open and vary detailed.
There is a crazy sense of air or distance between instruments or individual vocals.
I have heard people say that the bass is muddy or not super responsive but I'd argue that to your specific setup.

The 211 is not as authoritative as the 845 but @ 8 watts its not a slouch either.
Playing around the same area on the volume knob the 211 is crisp and clean sounding not as much punch as the 845 but thats not a bad thing as some music tends to sound better on 211 then on 845.
Again both are equally amazing to my ears.
I'm listening to mostly jazz , acustic, melodic electric, folk, blues through tannoys arden and cheviots and they work perfect