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From Pioneer CS-99 to CS-99A .... Yes?

T

TBL_HK

Active Member
I once owned a pair of Pioneer CS-88A with the CS logo on the woofers. I sold them for $300 a few years ago. Now I joust bought a pair of CS-99 for around the same money. And driving them thruogh my Pioneer PL-L1000A, Nakamichi CA-7, and driven by a pair of Ampex 6973 monobloc tube amps, I had my conclusion quickly on the CS-99.

I am not pleased at all with the sound of the CS-99, which sounds boomy, bottomless, and with limited dynamics. That is all after comparing with my mighty JBL 4320 stacked fours. I know it's not a fair comparison but I remember my CS-88A sounded much better, dynamic, transcients being quick and accurate, and top end open to no end. I had hoped for better on my CS-99, tho'.

So should I be expecting much more from the CS-99A? Is there some of you who have owned the CS-99 and teh CS-99A at the same time and placed then for comparison? I remember reading someone saying the two sounded similar but hey, after my CS-88A and CS-99 experience, I'm gonna expect difference more than subtle between their brothers the CS-99 and CS-99A.

Thank you for you input!

Terence
 
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I had a pair of the 99'As...these are speakers that look pretty but don't sound very good in my opinion. You may be able to get more than what you did for the 99s.
The problem for the CS series is that the cabs are way too small for the large woofers, and neither the tweeters or the midrange make up for that deficit because they are mediocre sounding.

I never had the 99's but I did have the CS-77s. I did not like them either. I don't expect anything really great from the CS series. I have heard that the CS-63 (I don't know which version) sounds pretty good.
 
Hey, folks! A friend from work recently purchased a pair of 99A's and put new standard electrolytic caps in. And as for me I recently purchased pair of the CS 63 (Not 63dx) and I installed some Mundorf aluminum in oil caps. We did some comparising using a Rogue Tube amp, Marantz 8005 cd player and a Creek passive pre-amp. and Blue Heaven interconnects. First with the 63's I noticed the bass was lacking... Like no real bass below 80hz which is terrible. I realized the woofer was overly stiff and I used 3 in one oil around the surrounds and a hair drier to lube things up.. I pushed from behind and in front to loosen the woofer up. It did wonders.. Now I have bass down to more like 60hz. Still lacking what feel should be for a speaker noticeably larger than the 99a's. Now for a fair comparison. I felt the 99A's were more dynamic, had better cleaner punchier bass but still lean below 60hz. I did not notice any boomy bass though. These speakers were at least 3' from rear wall and 6' feet from side walls. I had them up on one foot stands. The 99A's had better high frequncy extention, too. The 63's "super tweeter" crosses over at 10kz and can hardly be heard. I thought by replacing the caps, the super tweeter would open up. The bullet horn tweeter is kind of harsh especially at louder volumes. The 63's put out a bigger sound stage and I love the 63s large mid driver. Though, I would rather have the 99A's than regular 99's since the 99 woofer looks identical to 63's. You might even consider rebuying a pair of 88A's and save some money.
 
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There were several brands of speakers produced during this time period that had furniture grade cabinets and lattice grills. Pioneer, Sansui, and the Realistic Nova series come to mind. There are probably others. My personal experience with both the Sansui and Pioneers (had a friend with the CS-99's and I had a set Sansui SP- 2500's a couple of years ago) was too many drivers and the woofers were too large for the size of cabinet causing a lack of detailed bass. On the other hand my experience with the Nova series has been quite good. They are acoustic suspension design with right sized drivers for the enclosure and sound very good. I had a set of Nova 6's in the early 80's which produced great bass for 8" woofers. I currently have a set of Nova 8b's which have exceptional tight bass and probably dig into the 30hz range. What I remember about my friends 99's was that they definitely sounded better and the bass improved as volume was applied. Pioneer rectified many of the CS-series flaws in the later HPM series and I actually purchased a new set of HPM 60's in 1978 because of the tight bass I heard in the demo room. So if I understand the op's question, the op is thinking about purchasing a set of 99a's and selling the 99's if the 99a's are in a different league. I'd say to the op it is doubtful you'll get the improvement you'll hope for. If you like the furniture grade look with the lattice grills sell the 99's and go find some Nova 8b's. You won't be disappointed, especially after a full recap.
 
Hey, gbroot! If you are referring to the VL upgrade recap on the Nova 8b's, I can swear that they are in a league of their own.
 
I had a pair of the cs-99 and the cs-99a. The 99a sound much better IMO. Get them on a stand about 6 to10" off the ground and closer to the wall to enhance the bass. These speakers will play very loud and clean if you use a quality amp. While the bass will be clean and tight, there won't seem to be much, considering the size of the woofers.
I sold my cs-99a for a nice sum and gave away the cs-99 to a friend who was interested in getting into vintage gear. He quickly bought a pair of Yamaha ns-690 and retired the cs-99. I don't miss my 99a's but if I came across another pair for a cheap price I might buy them do to the fact that they are awesome party speakers! I still have a pair of nice condition cs-88a with refoamed tweeters. I will end up selling these, as I have other vintage speakers that are way better sounding.
 
woofercooker said:
Hey, gbroot! If you are referring to the VL upgrade recap on the Nova 8b's, I can swear that they are in a league of their own.
Click to expand...
I've not recapped with the upgrade just replacement of the originals and still find them very pleasing to listen too. I'm not sure whether the upgrade expense would be of great benefit to me as my HF hearing loss is severe, so hearing the improvements may only be minimal.
 
I had and enjoyed a pair of CS A700 Speakers for a while. I didn't much care for the CS 99 that a friend of mine had. The A700 had somewhat inarticulate bass but the mids and highs were pleasant and fun. They are not the most accurate speakers but I enjoyed them.
 
I still have my CS-99A's I bought new in 1977 or 1978. Auditioned a lot of speakers of the day then.
The CS-99A's have good and bad points like a lot of speakers.

Good
Cabinet finish and styling
High power handling
Great woofer control and tight bass at medium to high volumes

Bad
Small cabinet volume for woofer size
Weak bass at low to medium volume


Thanks,

Mike
 
I have CS-99 A's also and I agree with PioneerMike about the good and the bad.And with gizzyman47 you must get these speakers up off the floor and backs closer to the wall improves the bass tremendously.What I want to add is the size of the room is important too. The bigger the better no little rooms for these speakers.With this said I am thinking about recapping mine. I do have a spare set of crossovers. Any info on this would help and be appreciated. I already did a search here and not much info. thanks in advance
 
Hi Folks!

So after precisely 3 years of ownership of these CS99, I finally recapped them using mkp and mpt capacitors sourced cheaply on taobao. The measure fine and hold up ac voltage quite ok. I think the project cost me 20 dollars.

Look at thise pictures for the pre and the post looks. Note thise shiny silvery caps on the crossover board. I measured them one ny one and they had drifted capacitance to + 300%. No wonder the speaker sounded like ****, cos the frequency overlaps between two drivers must hv become unusually broad, leading to peaks in freq response.

Now I team the CS99 with my JBL 4320 with active dividing network at 200hz. I chose this point to avoid the boomy effect of the big dia woofers trapped in a relatively small box, and increase overall output SPL and improve THD.

Now Im extremely pleased with the results from recapping yhese speakers, as in night and day. So the CS99 will be my temp keeper.

Terence
 
I just landed a very nice pair of CS-99a from SA. I just don't understand all of the negative press these get. They are very "different" sounding to me. Lush and smooth.

Yes, the bass drops off high, but if I'm not mistaken...shouldn't that be expected given the efficiency (Hoffman's Iron Law)? I would agree that the cab is probably not sized properly...would there be any reason for this in terms of the design intent? I've heard these referred to as monitors....are they designed to be on a shelf against a wall directly facing a sound engineer? Cause to me, they sound not so good at loud volumes, but at 70-80db, I like them enough to keep them around a while. (however, I use 2 flanking subs).

I refinished the cabs with Howards but will wait to recap until I decided I like what I hear. I will say that they sound better than my Advent 5012's at this point and since I'm a tube guy...I like the 97dB sensitivity. The kabuki-ish drivers are FLAT OUT GORGEOUS. I love the look of the paper and surround material.
 
I had a pair of 99a's, and have had dozens of other models from various manufacturers. My sister found the 99a's at an auction, texted me, and I told her to bid up to $100. She got them for $7.50! I drove the four hour round trip to her house the next day and brought them home. I had seen several pairs on Craigslist and the auction site that were going for upwards of $500, so I reasoned that they must be great speakers. In my opinion, they are a nostalgia trip for people that always wanted a pair, and fetch top dollar because there is a fixation among vintage audio collectors to have TOTL models. I will say that yes, they can handle power, the look has a high cool factor - very 70's HI-FI, but the sound was overbearing without bass or much detail. I quickly sold them for $250. To each his own, but I can't be convinced that they are a great-sounding speaker. You can recap, mess with room placement, put them on stands, etc. but they just don't tick the boxes for me, and the prices that are being asked for them are completely silly.
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The fact remains, CS-99's don't sound very good. I know because I bought a pair while in the war (Cam Ranh Bay 1967). They didn't come close to the AR-4's I also bought.
 
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