Garrard Zero 100 Issues With Automatic Functions

[tiga]

Spent some time cleaning the unit tonight and it looks a lot nicer. when i spin the platter i feel like it could be a little quieter - the Dual 1019 I fixed up for my daughter is quieter when spun by hand and it spins longer. Wondering if i should disassemble the spindle bearing and clean/relube? I should be getting the O-ring tomorrow - maybe it will help? Hoping to have the new stylus on and playing music by weeks end and see if any platter noise is noticeable through the speakers. maybe i’m overthinking everything now LOL.

On a positive note I checked the speed with my phone and attached is the result. Great speed - maybe some room for improvement on wow? Still not too bad i think.

 

[Bruno Primas]

It should seem to spin "forever" and freely if you spin the platter by hand when it's off. If it's not, then I can think of two things that might not be right.

1. The idler wheel isn't pulling far enough from the capstan and inner platter rim when the table is off and it's causing a drag on the platter.

2. The 3/32" platter bearings are no longer round and need replacing. They're cheap to buy and not that hard to do. It's not a bad idea to replace them anyway.

 

[T68]

Yup, a clean and relubrication of the platter bearing could probably improve the wow and reduce noise, and maybe increase spindown time.

But as Bruno stated: spindown on idlers can sometimes be affected by the idler wheel still being in contact with the platter. This may or may not be normal behaviour. Not sure about my own Garrard z100 in this regard.

But after my restoration my z100 has wow at about 0.10% (measured with smartphone app).

Besides restoring the platter bearing, changing motor mounts to new ones made of silicone can reduce noise to. Made wonders on my z100 in this regards. Member tothmes makes and sells them.

I believe also there are new bearing kits available that are supposed to be good against noise.

 

[gadget73]

Possible the bearings have gone egg-shaped but I'd bet its more a case of sticky lube than damaged bearings. Either way cleaning and inspecting what you have is the first step. Bearing balls are cheap. There are some higher precision ones available, unknown if they actually help. I have some Delrin ones I want to try to see what that does. I figure at best it will quiet things down, at worst it will do nothing or make things worse so the steel balls go back in.

 

[Bruno Primas]

The idler wheel should be pulled off of the capstan and platter when off. The wheel can develop dents in it if stored for a long time while contacting either one. There is a spring that should help with this and it could have lost some of its tenacity over time.

 

[tiga]

Thank you. I'll pull the idler off then spin the platter by hand again and see if I notice any changes in noise or length of spin. The idler moves away from the capstan fine but wondering about the platter - it does seem really close to the edge of the chassis wall.

I'm kicking myself for not doing a full service of the bearing when I had the cam assembly removed. Live and learn I guess. From looking online there is supposed to be on O-ring at the bottom of the spindle, I'm not sure if I remember seeing one when I had this out. If it's gone I'm hoping it's the same size as the one I just ordered for the platter.

Thank you for the info on the motor mounts - I'll reach out to him.

 

[Bruno Primas]

You should be able to service the bearings from the top, under the platter. You can get the top washer off from the top and I use a magnetic screwdriver to take out the bearings and a small tool, like a dental pic or toothpick, with white lithium grease on it to place them back in. The bearing sticks to the grease and if you drop a bearing, it won't go far with grease on it.

 

[gadget73]

Pretty sure its not even possible to get them from the bottom but its been some years since i was into mine.

 

[T68]

When I serviced the bearing I had to disassemble some parts to get at it from underside.
If I remember correctly the hole in the top plate around the spindle was too small for the bearing to come up through it.
But not to big of a job. Some pics that may help:

 

[gadget73]

yeah definitely been a while since I had mine apart, I was picturing the same arrangement the AT6 has, not the plastic washers or the "hat".

 

[tiga]

When I serviced the bearing I had to disassemble some parts to get at it from underside.
If I remember correctly the hole in the top plate around the spindle was too small for the bearing to come up through it.
But not to big of a job. Some pics that may help:

View attachment 3026027

View attachment 3026029

View attachment 3026030

T68 - thank you these are great pictures. I'm frustrated because I had this part out along with the cam - I should have done the bearing then LOL. Actually it wasn't that hard to get out so it's not that big of deal. Next time I'll know better. Your picture is great for understanding how to reassemble the bearing though.

A couple questions - does the piece with the ball bearings need to be oriented a certain way? I'm assuming the bearings ride on the metal washer to the left of them in your above picture?

What areas need to be greased? Just around the ball bearings? It sounds like white lithium grease work for this or should I use something else? I have some sewing machine oil around too.

Thanks!!

 

[T68]

Cannot remember if the bearing race had to be turned a specific way or not... I suggest you take note how it's positioned before disassembly just in case.

Regarding lubricant: I used my favourite grease Superlube which works well. But if I recall correctly the manual calls for oil like sewing machine oil.

I can check later when I have access to my computer where it's stored.

So you may have to make your own decision here

 

[T68]

 

[tiga]

Awesome - great information! I ordered some new ball bearings which should be here today. I put the o-ring on the platter last night and I couldn't believe how much this thing helped. Overall the spinning of the platter seemed quieter and the clunking noise from the auto mechanism was reduced to a light and pleasant clicking sound. Never thought it would have that type of impact.

 

[T68]

Yup that o-ring is a bit of a magician. I myself have not fully understood why it is so important for more silent auto operation. It just does it somehow

 

[gadget73]

sort of makes me wonder if there is anything to be gained by experimenting with different O ring durometers. Maybe a softer one would provide better isolation. Pretty sure I did not change it on the Zero, didn't know about it back then. I've replaced it on other tables though.

 

[tiga]

This weekend I tore out the cam assembly to work on the bearing. I have to admit I know almost nothing about turntable bearings but when I looked at this one my first thought was "why isn't this something better?" LOL. It just didn't seem like the best designed part - especially considering how impressed I was on the engineering of the rest of the turntable. Anyway I disassembled it - gave it a good cleaning (there was some o-ring debris in there which I assumed was causing some of the noise I was hearing), replaced the ball bearings with new ones, oiled and put it back together. The o-ring that is supposed to be under the bearing assembly wasn't there - so I made several trips to several stores looking for an appropriate replacement. I couldn't find anything of a small enough thickness that would fit. Most everything was too thick causing the bearing to be too high and interact with the cam. I finally found one that was 1.5mm but was too big around - I have it on there now and am making it work and have ordered some appropriately sized rings ones that are 1mm thick.

I then gave the outer edge of the idler wheel a light sanding and put everything back together. At first it seemed like all the same noises were still there, but after running the unit in manual mode for several hours a lot of the bearing noise went away, although not completely. There is someone on ebay selling what is supposed to be an upgraded bearing assembly - I'm considering getting one. Even though it was operating quieter it still didn't help my WOW numbers. In fact the numbers got worse after the unit warms up. Also hearng some slight noise from the idler area. Thinking about getting a new one of these too.

I then decided to follow Bruno's advice and just use it. Let's run the thing for a while and see how everything settles in. I set up the tonearm and installed the new stylus, which is a generic conical tracking at 3g. It actually sounds pretty good - albeit a bit midrangy. Overall I'm really pleased to have this thing working - it's a pretty cool turntable. I have ordered the silicone motor mounts from Tothmes - which should ship out tomorrow.

Here's a few pictures - the Sansui 5500 is serving as the world's sexiest phono preamp, with a yamaha v479 driving the EPI M100 speakersd and a yamaha sub. So glad to have this working - I fully believe that if I didn't buy this when I did it most likely would have ended up thrown away. Thanks all!

 

[T68]

Great job! It looks beautiful together with the rest of your rig, which also of course looks very good!

Hopefully the new motor mounts will give you a nice further improvement in noise reduction as they did for me.

If you get the bearing kit I am really interested in your impressions of it. Have been on the fence about trying one myself.

Regarding your wow numbers.
A new idler may do the trick together with a new platter bearing.

But another thing (sorry if you already did this and I missed it) Is cleaning and lubricate the motor bearings. The bottom bearing needs to be disassembled and cleaned before refilling with new oil

 

[gadget73]

Most changers use basically that bearing assembly design. Some slight variations on it but its just your common thrust bearing arrangement with a pair of hardened washers and a set of bearing balls in some sort of retainer. Don't have a ton of options really, the center has to be open for the changer spindle to poke through so that forces you into a donut shape.

 

[tiga]

Great job! It looks beautiful together with the rest of your rig, which also of course looks very good!

Hopefully the new motor mounts will give you a nice further improvement in noise reduction as they did for me.

If you get the bearing kit I am really interested in your impressions of it. Have been on the fence about trying one myself.

Regarding your wow numbers.
A new idler may do the trick together with a new platter bearing.

But another thing (sorry if you already did this and I missed it) Is cleaning and lubricate the motor bearings. The bottom bearing needs to be disassembled and cleaned before refilling with new oil

Thank you - I'll be sure to update if I go for the bearing (or the idler). I did add some oil to the bottom bearing of the motor but I'm thinking I should have cleaned them better before I oiled. The motor gets very hot- to the point that it's uncomfortable to touch. I think this turntable can be nice source of heat during the winter LOL. It has a little of the "old electrical motor" smell too once it's been running for a while. When I replace motor mounts I'll work on the motor bearings again. I've thought about picking up another motor off of ebay to see if it might be better than what I have.