Going Digital!

[Billfort]

Like you Oscar, I've had a VERY hard time seeing beyond the vinyl I've gotten so comfortable with over 45yrs. SACD helped, streaming with the right set-up has also played a roll but DSD conversion now has me there - I only miss vinyl a little and it's always there when I need it.

A few comments worth noting since I've mentioned sample rates. I've only heard DSD256 a couple times (from a DSD256 master) and it was sublime - probably the best recorded music sonics I've heard period (admitting I have no real exposure to analog maters). But, DSD256 is a monster and too far out on the bleeding edge even for me right now. The dac is one thing but these are huge files that take LOTS of computer power to deal with and have even geekier setup issues. My current set-up can't even down-convert them to DSD128 - my remote computer isn't up to it. DSD64 (straight-up or PCM converted with HQplayer) is the big leap, DSD128 brings a little more of the good stuff (midrange texture, sweet highs, image detail) but it's subtle - DSD256? maybe a little more but a much smaller leap I bet.

All is very good though because I really think DSD128 through the dac is the sweet-spot right now and my modest setup can do this without a hitch for all source material other than DSD256. The big payoff for me - by a wide margin - has been the dsd dac and HQplayer. NAA has been nice, linear power takes you a little farther and cabling a nice subtle (VERY subtle) tweak but nowhere near the improvement DSD streaming with the right software made.

 

[Kt77]

Like you Oscar, I've had a VERY hard time seeing beyond the vinyl I've gotten so comfortable with over 45yrs. SACD helped, streaming with the right set-up has also played a roll but DSD conversion now has me there - I only miss vinyl a little and it's always there when I need it.

A few comments worth noting since I've mentioned sample rates. I've only heard DSD256 a couple times (from a DSD256 master) and it was sublime - probably the best recorded music sonics I've heard period (admitting I have no real exposure to analog maters). But, DSD256 is a monster and too far out on the bleeding edge even for me right now. The dac is one thing but these are huge files that take LOTS of computer power to deal with and have even geekier setup issues. My current set-up can't even down-convert them to DSD128 - my remote computer isn't up to it. DSD64 (straight-up or PCM converted with HQplayer) is the big leap, DSD128 brings a little more of the good stuff (midrange texture, sweet highs, image detail) but it's subtle - DSD256? maybe a little more but a much smaller leap I bet.

All is very good though because I really think DSD128 through the dac is the sweet-spot right now and my modest setup can do this without a hitch for all source material other than DSD256. The big payoff for me - by a wide margin - has been the dsd dac and HQplayer. NAA has been nice, linear power takes you a little farther and cabling a nice subtle (VERY subtle) tweak but nowhere near the improvement DSD streaming with the right software made.

Billfort,

First off I must say apologies - for having missed that you're a fellow countrymen - as I was born in Moosejaw, Saskatchewan and became a transplant in the states upon my parents divoice in 1966, hence the references to my first LP purchase in '66 was actually a copy of Kenny Burrell - Midnight Blue obtained in a shop within the train stations terminal prior to boarding the train to Winsdor, Ontario where my aunt and uncle from Detroit came through the Detroit - Windsor Tunnel to pick us up, my mom had found the Canadian way of life to slow for her needs, and wanted a much faster paced like it seemed to me at the time - hence things were doomed with them for the start.

Anyways - back to said topic - it's nice having someone share one again such insight into subject matter which I admittedly feel completely lost - yet in the same instance see as a revelution if you will - but thanks to guys like you - Byron and Dave I know that I shall get through the crawling phase of this in time - as I'm somewhat of a quick study/learned whom has always believed in the more hands on approach to life itself.

Your notes bring to them a certain truth - that's makes it easier the see the true potential of venturing into these unknown waters ( for me ) so overlook the fact that I'm playing at the shallow end of the pool - lest I become overwhelmed to fast and panic - but your words will be saved into my notes where I can later ultilize as reference guide on which method to use in regards to said downloads - as well as other unknown terms to me at this point.

Long story ( not likely ) I'm open-minded enough to pay attention to others whom speak truly on those areas - where I fall short - so speak on.

And, I'm a long time proponent of cables - isolation devices - room treatment devices ( mostly through the use of weird little items from the likes of companies such as Shun Mook - ASI ( Acoustic Sound International ) and Synergistic Research ) and tubes, are the areas where I feel my strengths/studies have given me keener insight less then a few - yet more so then most, and it's in these areas where I honestly feel it makes it easier for me to understand the importance of voicing ones system to their given perferences to begin with.

But as is the norm for me - I'm way off topic, yet it's also because I realized years ago, that each us have our stories to tell/share - but it seems there's never enough time to get them out there to those whom might actually understand ones mindset into all matters as they relate to audio, as much as the relate to extending ones hand in friendship or even deeper brotherhood - yet in the end - like minds and spirits paths do cross from time to time - and in that sense helps the transition become all the more less painful.

So once again - I for one have learned a great deal more then I knew several days ago - and know that I shall know even more the day after tomorrow - in parts thanks to Byron for starting this thread and for you as for extending upon it in a manner that makes ones options that much clearer - and to guys like Dave and TimF whom are there to take me through the baby steps.

But it's a Journey I'm all in for........, let's begin - shall we?.

I'm watching/reading/learning and enjoying all of this.

Once again, I'm in it for the long haul.

Peace beyond to each of you and your families during the Holiday Seasons - and hats off to those whom can't be here due once again to senseless manmade and generated wars.

h ( h - no he didn't go there - yes, yes he did go there, and beyond ).

 

[Billfort]

Hey, displaced Canadian...it happens.

Always a pleasure to interact and share experiences with others on audio, at least those with an open mind. I'm just hacking at this stuff and no expert but I guess I have learned a little along the way, even though it's absolutely biased towards getting a sound that suits my pallet.

It is cool to experience new technology like streamed DSD that really seems to deliver and elevates your system in an area you somewhat dismissed figuring you already knew it all. Some 'new' is very good (says the guy who will not move away from SET tubes & vinyl! ).

And happy holidays to you and your's too Oscar.

 

[Kt77]

Hey, displaced Canadian...it happens.

Always a pleasure to interact and share experiences with others on audio, at least those with an open mind. I'm just hacking at this stuff and no expert but I guess I have learned a little along the way, even though it's absolutely biased towards getting a sound that suits my pallet.

It is cool to experience new technology like streamed DSD that really seems to deliver and elevates your system in an area you somewhat dismissed figuring you already knew it all. Some 'new' is very good (says the guy who will not move away from SET tubes & vinyl! ).

And happy holidays to you and your's too Oscar.

Misplaced indeed........,

But yet - as I've grown older/wiser I've found that if I surround myself around people of culture or morals it makes living here easier in the long run - and in the end it does come down to each of us voicing our systems to suit of pallet as you've somewhat termed it.

New technologies aren't a given in the sense of how it relates to the guys whom enjoy SET and Vinyl - as I was one of them - yet in hindsight I got beyond letting a sweet sounding - yet underpowered 2A3 - PX25 or 300B integrated predict which speakers I had to buy - as I much prefer a tad bit more power if you will in using Push/Pull designs - of course they aren't as delicate in nature or offer true to life vocal presentation - but one can own real world speakers that offer a more direct insight into musical notes just as easily - it's like with food seasonings - some ( myself included ) love a dash more salt and pepper then others - but in reality aren't all of us of different cultures seen as various flavors of the rainbow or color chart? - in that sense no one size shall ever fit all.

I'm open-minded and olde school enough to know those whom speak their truths as compared to those whom I see as lost and aren't aware of said truths or their surroundings - if one can re-educate me on certain matters as they relate to this shared hobby or life in general - then I'm all ears, as I was never one of those sorts that sit in the rear of the classroom trying to hide - no, I was eager to learn and raise my hand proudly as a means of showing those clowns whom stayed back grade wise 2 - 3 years as I advanced - it's the same with audio........, it's merely a matter of using ones common sense - if it sounds/feels right - then it is, close the book and move on to what counts most - ones music collection.

But as always - I tend to let myself get overly passionate about such matters, and begin like my friend TimF start writing novels on what was intended to be a short story. But like I tell the wife each night before going to sleep

" God's Will "

We shall catch up on this at a later date......, it's been real chatting with you Billfort - eh!.

And thanks for the warmish greeting in return.

 

[Catcher10]

It is encouraging to read all this......I have always felt digital should be the way for music, certainly recording to digital is the way. All the downstream processing though kinda ruins it for me, I have not heard anything that gives me that warn and fuzzy feeling. Maybe it is out of my price range, dunno...but I do struggle with what is available in the upper formats like DSD and DXD.

I am kinda interested in an ADC to DAC/DSD setup for my vinyl, I understand that is pretty sweet....Essentially make my own SACD if need.

 

[Billfort]

Yes - vinyl to DSD - there really might be something to that! I've heard a couple vinyl rips to DSD128 and they where incredible - I really thought I was listening to a high-end vinyl rig. The guy playing this stuff didn't know the details other than to say they were ripped using a very nice vinyl based system but it stuck with me as something I really have to try someday.

I was holding out for a Tascam DA-3000 to try recording straight from vinyl to DSD128 but I've really been impressed by the sound of 24/192 converted to DSD128 on the fly during playback so I'm looking at options. PCM 24/192 is much easier to get to for less $ and I've been wanting an external ADC interface to do some in-room measurements so I'm thinking a Tascam US-366 as a first step.

 

[slippers-on]

Amazing sound!

This 2box DAC ( iFI DSD & iUSB PS) is really incredible sounding. Tho it's not vinly sounding, it's closer to it than a CDP can come in my opinion. And I have a pal that has A $15k Levinson CDP which is really good, but this little $700 2 box DAC is really taking digital to a level of sound performance I doubt CDP's can go. It's the overal texture and tone of the music, I believe. seems so effortless but passionate. And the combination of the DAC, going into a tubed class A amp, makes for great enjoyable music with very low levels of volume. The music comes at you from a place like vinyl does....natural dark background with natural tone as if the instruments are really real...vinly like. The Mids have that warmth front to back and romantic. And it's giving you all the little sounds you never really paid attention to before. It's not a forced sound, just seems to float before me. I've about 40 hours on her and word has it, it's like 100-200 to be into her element. I'm now converting music into flac and up sampling DSD...Its either 64 or 128, not sure as the light on the DSD DAC has one color light for both. I now see what the fuss is all about. Tho this dac with my tubes gear, seems to be on the rather warm side of neutral, So I put a silver cable on the DAC and wow! "MAGIC"!

You CDP lovers...you had better get with the program....your missing out. But you know what they say....you can't miss what you never heard....but they also say, curiosity got (killed) the cat!:yes:

 

[MikeT.]

This 2box DAC ( iFI DSD & iUSB PS) is really incredible sounding. Tho it's not vinly sounding, it's closer to it than a CDP can come in my opinion. And I have a pal that has A $15k Levinson CDP which is really good, but this little $700 2 box DAC is really taking digital to a level of sound performance I doubt CDP's can go. It's the overal texture and tone of the music, I believe. seems so effortless but passionate. And the combination of the DAC, going into a tubed class A amp, makes for great enjoyable music with very low levels of volume. The music comes at you from a place like vinyl does....natural dark background with natural tone as if the instruments are really real...vinly like. The Mids have that warmth front to back and romantic. And it's giving you all the little sounds you never really paid attention to before. It's not a forced sound, just seems to float before me. I've about 40 hours on her and word has it, it's like 100-200 to be into her element. I'm now converting music into flac and up sampling DSD...Its either 64 or 128, not sure as the light on the DSD DAC has one color light for both. I now see what the fuss is all about. Tho this dac with my tubes gear, seems to be on the rather warm side of neutral, So I put a silver cable on the DAC and wow! "MAGIC"!

You CDP lovers...you had better get with the program....your missing out. But you know what they say....you can't miss what you never heard....but they also say, curiosity got (killed) the cat!:yes:

Byron,

Great post and a belated CONGRATS on the iFI DSD. I've been waiting for a while to see where DACs were headed cuz as you know in this digital realm, technology is moving so fast I've been afraid to even entertain a move towards a new DAC. My M1DAC was "dated" within six months of purchase. I've had my eye on the iFi line of products for a while now.
Sounds like you're really enjoying the new gear. I'm waiting for streaming lossless now which doesn't seem to be too far down the road from everything I hear. So you are all set

 

[Billfort]

Your enthusiasm is oozing a little here Byron - congratulations!

 

[tomlinmgt]

Your enthusiasm is oozing a little here Byron - congratulations!

Yeah, I'll say. I just stumbled across a (slightly used) iDSD w/iUSB PS and pulled the trigger. :sigh: ...no, wait... ....with in the staging lanes.

 

[Adda]

Yeah, I'll say. I just stumbled across a (slightly used) iDSD w/iUSB PS and pulled the trigger. :sigh: ...no, wait... ....with in the staging lanes.

So you actually got it then? well it'll be interesting to hear a bit about how it stacks up against your PCM DAC's.

 

[livestrong]

Thanks for continuing to share your experiences, Byron. I've been considering buying the iFi Micro iDSD for a long while now. So this morning I finally pulled the trigger on it (along with the iFi Micro iPhono and iFi iRack )!

 

[slippers-on]

Byron,

Great post and a belated CONGRATS on the iFI DSD. I've been waiting for a while to see where DACs were headed cuz as you know in this digital realm, technology is moving so fast I've been afraid to even entertain a move towards a new DAC. My M1DAC was "dated" within six months of purchase. I've had my eye on the iFi line of products for a while now.
Sounds like you're really enjoying the new gear. I'm waiting for streaming lossless now which doesn't seem to be too far down the road from everything I hear. So you are all set

Thanks Mike! I'm loving what I hear! I think I'm hooked. What I'm hearing from digital is what I didn't expect. It's very unlike a CDP if you ask me...I'm talking about DSD. I don't know about all rigs, but it's all so natural toned through the tubes...it's all so righteous....if one is really into music more so than being fascinated with gear...if he wants to feel the music and is able to have an emotional connection with what he is hearing and how he feels about what he is hearing...DSD will take you there. Before only Vinyl could really reach me there...now it's DSD. I'm listening to Angus &Julia Stone "Down the Way" and it's really hitting it hard.

 

[slippers-on]

Yeah, I'll say. I just stumbled across a (slightly used) iDSD w/iUSB PS and pulled the trigger. :sigh: ...no, wait... ....with in the staging lanes.

Wow! I wonder what the owner graduated too? I can't see my self leaving this unless I was getting a Lampizator because that's what kinda got me going down this road...and with the pace digital changes the Lampizator can easily be upgraded.did you get the Micro?
Once you get her, you have to bi pass everything and do DSD on the fly...get into your music room, sit still and listen. Expect better clarity,detail...tone...depth...and all that come with that. Your ears will fnd what me and the others have been hollering about.

 

[slippers-on]

So you actually got it then? well it'll be interesting to hear a bit about how it stacks up against your PCM DAC's.

Was it yours? I see you have the Atoll 100. It too uses a Burr Brown Chip like the Micro....I'm thinking warm and not edgy? It's not a Saber but dam good!

 

[slippers-on]

Thanks for continuing to share your experiences, Byron. I've been considering buying the iFi Micro iDSD for a long while now. So this morning I finally pulled the trigger on it (along with the iFi Micro iPhono and iFi iRack )!

Great! I hope it brings much pleasure to you as mine does to me...hope you decide on the iUSB as well if you're using a computer.... Music just seems to appear from nothing with it. And you have Class A with your Hybrid as well. You're going to love low level listening. Remember...if it's a bit warm going through tubes, just use silver on the DAC and it should bring it back to neutral. After about 10 hours I discovered it's warm nature. It's made to sound analog and not digital.

 

[tomlinmgt]

Wow! I wonder what the owner graduated too? I can't see my self leaving this unless I was getting a Lampizator because that's what kinda got me going down this road...and with the pace digital changes the Lampizator can easily be upgraded.did you get the Micro?
Once you get her, you have to bi pass everything and do DSD on the fly...get into your music room, sit still and listen. Expect better clarity,detail...tone...depth...and all that come with that. Your ears will fnd what me and the others have been hollering about.

Yes, I got the Micro. I snagged it from a member over at Head-Fi and I too was curious as to why he was moving on to something else. I searched his thread activity and noticed he's been asking a lot about the Audio GD NFB 1.32 in some other threads, so perhaps that's his next move??? That's like a $1400 unit, right? Based on everything I've been reading I kinda suspect some serious diminishing returns are in his future...whether he goes with the Audio GD or something else. :scratch2:

I feel kinda sneaky pokin around over at Head-Fi.....I'm not a cans guy AT ALL! I go lucky and spotted the one day old ad in a Google search. He told me there was a pretty good line forming behind me. Whew!

 

[slippers-on]

Your enthusiasm is oozing a little here Byron - congratulations!

Well before when I would read your thread....I had no idea what you where talking about..."DSD on the fly" and Lord knows I had no idea what A HQ player was. The only thing I knew was Concero, because I was interested in that Sabre DAC and discovered Lampizator uses them due to it worldly fame as the best. I was a hard core vinly man! But I did follow your thread...so I must give credit where credit is due. You firstly bosted about DSD and then I heard it at Steves place. That $10k Lampizator DAC sounded close as to a vinyl rig as possible without being vinyl....I think I got a little of that magic...and it's feeding me like never a digital rig has ever done before! That's saying a lot for a $700 two box kit!

Thanks for your threads, I've learned a few things from your postings...I love my vinyl, but haven't touched my TT sense the arrival of the Micro DSD DAC....oh I will, but I'm still in discovery mode! After all...I'm a vinyl and DSD man Now!:yes:

 

[slippers-on]

Yes, I got the Micro. I snagged it from a member over at Head-Fi and I too was curious as to why he was moving on to something else. I searched his thread activity and noticed he's been asking a lot about the Audio GD NFB 1.32 in some other threads, so perhaps that's his next move??? That's like a $1400 unit, right? Based on everything I've been reading I kinda suspect some serious diminishing returns are in his future...whether he goes with the Audio GD or something else. :scratch2:

I feel kinda sneaky pokin around over at Head-Fi.....I'm not a cans guy AT ALL! I go lucky and spotted the one day old ad in a Google search. He told me there was a pretty good line forming behind me. Whew!

Good thing you did poke around. I poked around at head-fi as well as computer audio before my purchase to see what others where saying about iFi. Great things where said....some had moved on from it, but they continued to praise it.

Let me know what you think once you get it....I'm sure your going to love DSD and the natural tones of the music.

 

[tomlinmgt]

Was it yours? I see you have the Atoll 100. It too uses a Burr Brown Chip like the Micro....I'm thinking warm and not edgy? It's not a Saber but dam good!

I too have an Atoll 100 which, just like Adda's unit, has had the main output caps upgraded to Clarity Caps...which really helped that unit's dynamics and slightly cold/lean presentation. It was already very lively and highly detailed (compared to a Rega and Musical Fidelity M1) and with the new caps got the extra little bit of warmth and butt behind it that it needed to be a most excellent, well rounded budget DAC. The Gungnir edges it out in terms of smoothness and musicality (makes the Atoll sound ever so slightly grainy) and has great resolution and weight but for no more than I have tied up in the Atoll vs what I paid for the Gungnir I definitely can't say the Gungnir is a better value. I'm hoping the iDSD Micro/iUSB will create a wider performance gap against the Atoll than I'm hearing from the Gungnir.