Catcher10
Prog-tastic!
Yes they are....how long do they take to download? I wonder if buying SACDs and upsampling to DSD/DXD is better or easier.......I think you can then save the file you created from the SACD?
Going Digital!
- Thread starter slippers-on
- Start date
Yes they are....how long do they take to download? I wonder if buying SACDs and upsampling to DSD/DXD is better or easier.......I think you can then save the file you created from the SACD?
Billfort
Addicted Member
The only way to get a playable DSD rip from an SACD is with a hacked first generation PS3 - that has never had it's firmware updated. This works (I've done all of mine this way) but you're into pretty geeky territory here and there are only a few very specific old players that can do it. If you want to buy one on the used market it is a major crap-shoot - they had questionable reliability and most had their firmware updated (which can't be rolled back). Add to that that this is the ONLY way to do this and most sellers know that - the chance of buying a machine that works fine but won't run the hack or just getting ripped off is very high.
I think just buying DSD files is the way to go - unless you have one of those old PS3s and a lot of SACDs.
I think just buying DSD files is the way to go - unless you have one of those old PS3s and a lot of SACDs.
Catcher10
Prog-tastic!
I guess I read this somewhere about SACD thru DSD DAC....so you cannot feed a SACD signal thru a DSD DAC and upsample to DSD64/128? Running the SACD player as a transport only......This does nothing then?
PS3 to play my music....hmmm no thanks, yea pretty geeky.
carry on....
Billfort
Addicted Member
The right PS3 just let's you produce a DSD rip - playing through the dac requires a computer running DSD capable player software to play those DSD files - usually via USB connection. There is no way of playing the DSD layer of an SACD straight to a stand-alone DSD capable dac - no SACD players have DSD outputs - 'rights' protection means redbook pcm output or analog outputs only.
SACDs are only going to work with these dacs if you do the ugly and produce a rip and a computer playback system is needed anyway for them - downloads are the way to go IMO.
If you have the computer though, a major factor with these dacs is that you can 'up-convert' regular pcm to something like DSD128, which some (certainly I
) believe sounds very good - analog as slippers keep saying.
SACDs are only going to work with these dacs if you do the ugly and produce a rip and a computer playback system is needed anyway for them - downloads are the way to go IMO.
If you have the computer though, a major factor with these dacs is that you can 'up-convert' regular pcm to something like DSD128, which some (certainly I
) believe sounds very good - analog as slippers keep saying. 
slippers-on
Music...let it move you!
Hi catcher!
A buddy of mine just left my 2 channel room. He was here for about 4 hours and he brought his Sutherland phono amp with him. At the start I was playing music from the Micro. He listened but really didn't say to much, so we removed the Creek phono stage and put in the Sutherland. Just amazing that phono amp....just amazing! After awhile of playing vinyl he asked to hear a certain song on "the Evil Disc"! So I fired up the X-RAY, which at one point was a very good CDP. And put in a song By Sonny Terry & Brownie McGhee. Man the CDP couldn't hold a candle to the Resolution the TT was throwing off. So after that experience I fired up the Micro...my friend was like "wow"! He understood what the Micro was doing...he agreed it didn't sound like digital and agreed its resolution was up there like vinyl..He heard every little subtle nuance the Micro was throwing off. He enjoyed the performance and even said its like they are in the room. The Micro is a great DAC! And Bill is right, files up converted to DSD is spectacular and sound better than any redbook. Oh...I did ask my buddy if he thought he was headed to Using a computer and a DAC. He said no....that he had to much money invested in his CDP. he has a Levinson CDP....$$$.
A buddy of mine just left my 2 channel room. He was here for about 4 hours and he brought his Sutherland phono amp with him. At the start I was playing music from the Micro. He listened but really didn't say to much, so we removed the Creek phono stage and put in the Sutherland. Just amazing that phono amp....just amazing! After awhile of playing vinyl he asked to hear a certain song on "the Evil Disc"! So I fired up the X-RAY, which at one point was a very good CDP. And put in a song By Sonny Terry & Brownie McGhee. Man the CDP couldn't hold a candle to the Resolution the TT was throwing off. So after that experience I fired up the Micro...my friend was like "wow"! He understood what the Micro was doing...he agreed it didn't sound like digital and agreed its resolution was up there like vinyl..He heard every little subtle nuance the Micro was throwing off. He enjoyed the performance and even said its like they are in the room. The Micro is a great DAC! And Bill is right, files up converted to DSD is spectacular and sound better than any redbook. Oh...I did ask my buddy if he thought he was headed to Using a computer and a DAC. He said no....that he had to much money invested in his CDP. he has a Levinson CDP....$$$.
livestrong
Well-Known Member
Thanks
I guess maybe I don't fully understand how the iUSB and Micro iDSD truly work together when they're connected. I get the concept for most other USB powered DAC's, but since the iDSD is battery powered, it would seem that it is mainly drawing the power it needs from the battery supply and the USB connected is just trickle charging the battery. So in a sense, it would seem that the battery would be cleaning the power so the iUSB would be redundant. That's what's in my head anyway...
Lee Harvey
Well-Known Member
Thanks
I will try to explain the purpose of the USB power supply. Many USB DAC's use the dirty 5 volts coming out of a PC to get thier power. When it comes to designing an amplifier or a DAC the quality of the power supply is the most important thing. The guys at iFI figured out that they could make a quieter power supply than what they could get with a Li-ion battery. So the USB power supply breaks the 5 volt connection with the PC's 5 volt supply and then substitute's it's own cleaner 5 volt supply to power your DAC. It also supplies more current too.
The way I understand how the iDSD works is that only the headphone amp section uses the battery. The DAC section gets its power from the USB source. To charge the battery the unit needs to be turned off. The iDSD does have some of the Purifier's components but that still is not as good as using the USB PS in the chain. So to get the best out of the iDSD is to have the USB PS powering the iDSD. Hope that helps?
livestrong
Well-Known Member
Hmmm - interesting. I guess the guy at Music Direct may have misinformed me. I do, however, find it odd that iFi doesn't mention using the iUSBPower with the Micro iDSD - they seem to mainly just mention other USB DACs and the iDAC. I wonder if the Gemini cable would provide any benefit in the Micro iDSD/iUSBPower setup. Perhaps I should try to find someone at iFi to talk to directly.
Lee Harvey
Well-Known Member
Did the guy at Music Direct also tell to plug in your iDSD to PC or a USB power supply like for a cell phone for 24 hours to charge the battery before you use the unit? Also the unit needs to be turned off for the battery to charge. Also did they inform you that there is a firmware update at the iFI site that you should apply to the iDSD to get it to be able to use the Windows WASPI or ASIO drivers? The Gemini cable is made to work between the USB PS and your DAC. It makes some sonic improvement by separating the +5 volts and ground lines from the data lines in a USB cable. See link:
http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-gemini/
slippers-on
Music...let it move you!
Im not surprised by the guy at MD. The guy I talked to tried to talk me out of the iFi product and tried to get me to buy a Peach Tree DAC.
From what I understand the iUSB was designed for the iDAC, and the iDSD was designed with the same PSU in mind. I've also seen guys with other USB DAC's using the iUSB PSU for other DAC's as well and they all claim an improvement is sonics.
Catcher10
Prog-tastic!
Thanks B,
I bet that Sutherland made you think huh......
I really do not forsee myself going anywhere near all digital. I would not mind having DSD capability though. I know I can sell the Grant Fidelity TubeDAC 11 for good money, probably enough to help fund an $800 DAC.
Problem is the TD11 is a damn Swiss Army knife, I just connected my reel to reel to it running thru the tube buffer, super nice! Can't do that with these newfangled all digital DACs..
Glad you are having fun!
Billfort
Addicted Member
All digital? What we've been talking about is converting all DIGITAL source files to DSD - analog stays analog for me. I love my turntable, it's just that all that digital I have has gotten a LOT closer to good analog with the DSD128 thing.
slippers-on
Music...let it move you!
t
Bro...the Creek I have Is good, but in comparison to the Sutherland...well there was no comparison. You know........, I heard that phono preamp at his house many a times..but just chalked it all up to his Clearaudio Performance deck. I thought that thing was heads and shoulders over my MMf-7.1.....until I put that same phono amp in my system...I had an ahhh-ha! Moment! It was the phono amp and not so much the TT. Sound stage became wider than the speakers and I have my speakers 9 feet apart...resolution all over the place...the music became effort-less. The iDSD has that resolution and just as much insite and emotion into the music. Bills right...once the signal is upconverted/sampled going through that DAC..its coming out analog. I'm sure if you thought long and hard enough, you'd be able to come up with a way to get that Reel to go through that DAC.
Bro...I wouldn't tell you wrong , you know that! And you're just like I was....a vinyl man and I was going to stay that way. Just ask Oscar, he has spent the better part of the year bidding me to try downloads and I wouldn't move. But listening to him...reading Billforts thread, reading over at computer audiophile forum....talking to Lee Harvey....all of it had me curious. Then my buddy had a shootout with a PSAudio Direct Stream and the Lampizator Level 5 and then the Lampizator 7 and finally the Entry level Lampizator...the Amber DAC. All of those DAC was doing DSD. It was an analog sound I was hearing, Bro! The differences between the TT and a good Analog DAC doing DSD are small in my book. I was even a none believer when I first got the DSD sound going I refused to believe it was reaching the resolution of Vinyl, and tho the differences are small, it's reaching the potential of sounding like and having the enjoyment of a great vinyl rig without turning over the vinyl. As I've said before...I'm still a vinyl man, heck, it's been in my soul from the 60's when my dad played "records" as we called them back then. Then the "evil disc" foolishness got me when they came into play. I'm still mad for selling all my records back then. But you best believe, Mi Bro....I ain't never getting rid of my records again...yeah , I'm a vinyl man through and through...but I'm a DSD man as well!
Bro you have to think about DSD....it way to much fun! I wish you could hear this Muddy Waters about right now in DSD 64....!
Bro...the Creek I have Is good, but in comparison to the Sutherland...well there was no comparison. You know........, I heard that phono preamp at his house many a times..but just chalked it all up to his Clearaudio Performance deck. I thought that thing was heads and shoulders over my MMf-7.1.....until I put that same phono amp in my system...I had an ahhh-ha! Moment! It was the phono amp and not so much the TT. Sound stage became wider than the speakers and I have my speakers 9 feet apart...resolution all over the place...the music became effort-less. The iDSD has that resolution and just as much insite and emotion into the music. Bills right...once the signal is upconverted/sampled going through that DAC..its coming out analog. I'm sure if you thought long and hard enough, you'd be able to come up with a way to get that Reel to go through that DAC.
Bro...I wouldn't tell you wrong , you know that! And you're just like I was....a vinyl man and I was going to stay that way. Just ask Oscar, he has spent the better part of the year bidding me to try downloads and I wouldn't move. But listening to him...reading Billforts thread, reading over at computer audiophile forum....talking to Lee Harvey....all of it had me curious. Then my buddy had a shootout with a PSAudio Direct Stream and the Lampizator Level 5 and then the Lampizator 7 and finally the Entry level Lampizator...the Amber DAC. All of those DAC was doing DSD. It was an analog sound I was hearing, Bro! The differences between the TT and a good Analog DAC doing DSD are small in my book. I was even a none believer when I first got the DSD sound going I refused to believe it was reaching the resolution of Vinyl, and tho the differences are small, it's reaching the potential of sounding like and having the enjoyment of a great vinyl rig without turning over the vinyl. As I've said before...I'm still a vinyl man, heck, it's been in my soul from the 60's when my dad played "records" as we called them back then. Then the "evil disc" foolishness got me when they came into play. I'm still mad for selling all my records back then. But you best believe, Mi Bro....I ain't never getting rid of my records again...yeah , I'm a vinyl man through and through...but I'm a DSD man as well!
Bro you have to think about DSD....it way to much fun! I wish you could hear this Muddy Waters about right now in DSD 64....!
Billfort
Addicted Member
Ahhh, Folk singer I bet.
This is the first album where I think the DSD128 (HQplayer up-converted 64 rip from an SACD) beat out my vinyl copy - and it is a very nice sounding Classic Records Quiex pressing.
slippers-on
Music...let it move you!
Ahhh, Folk singer I bet.
You are so right!
Down loaded HQPlayer and thought..."what in the world!" Seeing I'm off tomorrow, I will try to make something out of whatever that is...lol!::scratch2:
slippers-on
Music...let it move you!
Dsd 128
Ok now! This is scary good! I did my first rip of a Good CD in a higher format..Elaine Elias cd "Dreamer" ripped it DSD 128 and playback is doing no processing...going straight out as DSD 128. The sound has passed up my TT, and is more like a very very expensive TT, and not like any CDP I have ever heard, and I've heard some very expensive ones. Odd that CDPs have DAC in them but I've never heard them perform like this little $500 DAC and $200 PSU. I can't believe what I'm hearing in my 2 Channel room right now.
Ok now! This is scary good! I did my first rip of a Good CD in a higher format..Elaine Elias cd "Dreamer" ripped it DSD 128 and playback is doing no processing...going straight out as DSD 128. The sound has passed up my TT, and is more like a very very expensive TT, and not like any CDP I have ever heard, and I've heard some very expensive ones. Odd that CDPs have DAC in them but I've never heard them perform like this little $500 DAC and $200 PSU. I can't believe what I'm hearing in my 2 Channel room right now.
livestrong
Well-Known Member
Wow! You ARE having fun, aren't you!?
I sent a note to iFi to get more info on the iUSB Power, iDSD, and Gemini synergy / design. I will post here if I get a response.
I sent a note to iFi to get more info on the iUSB Power, iDSD, and Gemini synergy / design. I will post here if I get a response.
slippers-on
Music...let it move you!
Wow! You ARE having fun, aren't you!?
I sent a note to iFi to get more info on the iUSB Power, iDSD, and Gemini synergy / design. I will post here if I get a response.
Dont be fooled by the Gemini..yes it seperates the power from the signal, but others do it as well like WireWorld Silver Starlight 7....they do it very neatly in one leg....iFI does it in two legs. But the result of one leg is just as good if not better. Due to the warm nature of the Micro, and the neutrality of my system with all the copper cables and speaker wires, I needed to put silver with the Micro...so I cant use the Gemini due to it being the same copper as the rest of my system. As you know, Livestrong...Vincent isn't classic tube warmth from back in the day, but the Micro gave it that classic smooth warm sound...so the added silver made it just right. And ahh, you are going to need the iUSB...trust me on that one:yes:
slippers-on
Music...let it move you!
More information is all it is. Glad you are coming to the dark side
Yeah...the dark side is sounding really great about now...and yo buddy Oscar is getting one as well...you'd have to take a visit when he gets all set up!