Going Digital!

[Kt77]

Well guys, while I'm very aware this thread is on Byron " Going Digital ", but it seems that I was about to drop a piece on one of the iFi Audio products that would perfectly fit into what you guys have been discussing over the course of the last few post, so it's appropriate:

http://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/ifi-micro-iphono/

And being that I had remained loyal to vinyl since 1966, and only got away from it in 2009 due to my Gout getting worse to the point where it was simply painful to carry records back and forth from my cabinet or storage unit as a means of walking over to the table and place one, not alone a few onto the platter, so listening to digital files merely came out of convenience as well as necessity, yet I've never forgotten my roots as far as musicality goes - but can appreciate what I'm listening to at the moment due to the fact it's less wear and tear on my record collection, as well as the olde tired knees it seems.

But vinyl always had that more resolving means of doing layers and separation and dynamic shadings in a manner no other musical media or format can touch from a purely emotional way of merely reaching even deeper within ones core and let's us know it's simply more natural in how it reaches ones ears/heart/mind, naw............, there's no fooling oneself into believing it gets better, but for convenience sake..........., I shall endure said tradeoffs and do so with a smile.

H/ear here my fellow vinyl loving Brothas whom can actually hear said differences, but I'm saddened to hear that so many of you ( Byron ) lost face during the 80's and lost sight of what LP's offered that CDs never could and sold off your collections..........., it's referred to as " Connecting to ones surroundings ", once heard/felt for what it does correctly, there's no need for deception.

Like Dorothy - the reality kicks in.........! There's no place like home.

 

[davidro]

I've heard that iFi Phono against other stages including mine. A competent unit it is.
Not a giant killer though.

 

[Kt77]

Some of the older albums aren't as dynamic as some of the later era albums. There is still a lot of naturalness that digital, converted still can't convey, at least in my book. If you have an very old album in great condition, you may hear some hiss in the back ground....and its not as dynamic and transparent all the time. But there is a greater naturalness to the sound of the instruments I can hear. As an example. Right now Im listening to the following album by Artie Shaw and is Orchestra. Its a bunch of recording from 1938-1941.They where first released in 1971. The album I have is Mono...RCA, RCA VPM-6039, Canada 1971 and its mint! There is a certain darkness that the music is coming from. It seems to just appear from nothingness. The tone of each instrument is so natural sounding that not even DSD can capture it. The beat of the stand up bass is so natural, its remarkable. This is the last 5% im always saying DSD cant capture. Took me a while to figure out what was missing but thats what I'm hearing with vinyl and not hearing with DSD as great as it is.

Oh, and btw.....This recording has Billie Holiday with Shaw in 1938, her pre drug/booze days when her voice was clear, and that distinguished singing of hers behind the beat....Lena Horn with Shaw in 1941 and Helen Forrest with Shaw in 1939. From the Ochestra you may recognise the names Benny Carter on Sax and Buddy Rich on Drums....this is a great album for those who love big band music from that era...I love it!

Also, some of the later albums are recorded from digital tape and even CD's...they can have a digital sound. No good in my book.

Little Brotha,

Just wait until you've had the opportunity to hear this/these with a dedicated mono cartridge, talk about added weight, clarity and impact. My entire LP collection consisted of a mixture of 60/40 in favor of mono recordings.

And you know I understand all to well that sense of naturalness that you're referring to, and then some.

In a minute Blood

:nono:_oh

 

[Kt77]

I've heard that iFi Phono against other stages including mine. A competent unit it is.
Not a giant killer though.

I can respect that, as I'm someone whom relied upon the phono sections built into integrated's from the likes of say a Sugden A21a - Naim Nait ( original and MK 2 ) - Exposure X or XV - Onix OA-21S - Densen B-100 Beat - Sonneteer Campion as well as phono-stages from Heed Audio and Dynavector for to many years to believe otherwise, but having looked a few systems here and elsewhere..........., it can't hurt to upgrade from what some are using.

It wasn't intended towards the evolved amongst us, in so much as a means for those needing something to merely hear besides what might've been built into a vintage piece of gear from say 1951 - 1976!, as some have remained in the past, and I'm not knocking.........., far from it, as I've heard tube gear like Eico and Scott - Leak - Radford - Fisher that was slightly modded and couldn't believe how much more then a few current designers have loss sight of what we left behind.

Just a heads up on my part and nothing more.......

 

[davidro]

RGA rated the unit highly so my expectation was moderately high. But it didn't sound all that extraordinary. Not that it was bad by any means.

 

[slippers-on]

Well guys, while I'm very aware this thread is on Byron " Going Digital ", but it seems that I was about to drop a piece on one of the iFi Audio products that would perfectly fit into what you guys have been discussing over the course of the last few post, so it's appropriate:

http://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/ifi-micro-iphono/

And being that I had remained loyal to vinyl since 1966, and only got away from it in 2009 due to my Gout getting worse to the point where it was simply painful to carry records back and forth from my cabinet or storage unit as a means of walking over to the table and place one, not alone a few onto the platter, so listening to digital files merely came out of convenience as well as necessity, yet I've never forgotten my roots as far as musicality goes - but can appreciate what I'm listening to at the moment due to the fact it's less wear and tear on my record collection, as well as the olde tired knees it seems.

But vinyl always had that more resolving means of doing layers and separation and dynamic shadings in a manner no other musical media or format can touch from a purely emotional way of merely reaching even deeper within ones core and let's us know it's simply more natural in how it reaches ones ears/heart/mind, naw............, there's no fooling oneself into believing it gets better, but for convenience sake..........., I shall endure said tradeoffs and do so with a smile.

H/ear here my fellow vinyl loving Brothas whom can actually hear said differences, but I'm saddened to hear that so many of you ( Byron ) lost face during the 80's and lost sight of what LP's offered that CDs never could and sold off your collections..........., it's referred to as " Connecting to ones surroundings ", once heard/felt for what it does correctly, there's no need for deception.

Like Dorothy - the reality kicks in.........! There's no place like home.

Dont remind me....I wont shed a tear over my discretion of the 80's...that time has passed.

 

[slippers-on]

I've heard that iFi Phono against other stages including mine. A competent unit it is.
Not a giant killer though.

Giant killer? Only with the right synergy......I've seen to many systems upwards of $40k with the iFI Phono stage for them not to be giant killers. Synergy is key!

 

[slippers-on]

RGA rated the unit highly so my expectation was moderately high. But it didn't sound all that extraordinary. Not that it was bad by any means.

Dave...I wonder if this guy would disagree with you.

Or this guy?

Or this guy?

It all comes down to sysnergy! I suppose they can be giant killers!

 

[Kt77]

RGA rated the unit highly so my expectation was moderately high. But it didn't sound all that extraordinary. Not that it was bad by any means.

Trust me..........., I hear that!!!!.

:sigh:_oh

 

[Kt77]

Dave...I wonder if this guy would disagree with you.

Or this guy?

Or this guy?

It all comes down to sysnergy! I suppose they can be giant killers!

And synergy is or should be the main goal in assembling a system, is it not?.

 

[enginedr]

With those two turntables he did not have any room for anything else . WAF ?

 

[Lee Harvey]

David, Oscar and Byron, I am just wondering what kind of synergy could be obtained with an iPhono, a Pioneer PLX-100 and a Miyajima Labs mono cartridge? I was absolutely floored at the RMAF last October when Robyatt Audio was demonstrating some Mono albums played through a Miyajima cartridge. Those family of cartridges are not cheap. The price of the Premium Mono cartridge would cost as much as the price of the PLX-1000 and the iPhono combined. Then you would also have to factor in two sets of premium RCA cables to go hook everything up. So someone would be looking at about $3K for that setup to play Mono records. But Man! Did Mono records sound so real!

David? When you heard the iPhono was it a new, out of the box unit or did it have 100+ hours playing/powered up time? I found that the iFI gear needs some burn in time until they start to bloom.

 

[davidro]

David, Oscar and Byron, I am just wondering what kind of synergy could be obtained with an iPhono, a Pioneer PLX-100 and a Miyajima Labs mono cartridge? I was absolutely floored at the RMAF last October when Robyatt Audio was demonstrating some Mono albums played through a Miyajima cartridge. Those family of cartridges are not cheap. The price of the Premium Mono cartridge would cost as much as the price of the PLX-1000 and the iPhono combined. Then you would also have to factor in two sets of premium RCA cables to go hook everything up. So someone would be looking at about $3K for that setup to play Mono records. But Man! Did Mono records sound so real!

David? When you heard the iPhono was it a new, out of the box unit or did it have 100+ hours playing/powered up time? I found that the iFI gear needs some burn in time until they start to bloom.

It was someone's working unit who bought it secondhand, so I would think there's a very good chance it had 100+ hours.

The showdown I attended had a few people, and there was what could be called a consensus among us. Even the owner of the tubed phono admitted to some extent my Jasmine sounded the best despite that he later added he still thought his phono was able to extract some detail neither my Jasmine nor the iPhono could. But that was his sole claim.

We had a couple of different vinyl rigs. One sporting a modern high-end BD table running an LOMC Lyra, and another sporting a vintage high-end QDD table running a HOMC Benz. We thought the iPhono fared better with the HOMC setup.

Remember I said that the iPhono was 'by no means' bad at all. In fact, from the showdown my conclusion was that phono pre-amps mattered less than what I used to think in a relative sense. I've never heard the Miyajima mono (although I'd love to) but I don't think it would be bottle-necked badly by an iPhono at all.

FWIW, the owner of the iPhono didn't feel he really needed to upgrade his iPhono after the showdown seeing that the difference was not sky-crumbling.

It is a very competent unit. Just not better than other value-for-money phonos in higher price ranges. Not just IMO but a view shared by the majority in the showdown.

 

[lizard84]

I've been immersing myself more and more into this digital realm and like what I heard. I've just given Jriver a try and having begun with Audiovana Plus I'm afraid I'm not a fan, I'll be sticking to Audiovana +. I cleaned up my non audio programs on my 13" MacBook Air 2.0ghz, i7, 8 gigs of ram.

I did try some dsd files including the Ayer.com dsd vs pcm comparison but for me there is little difference if any. I stick to to pcm for now and revisit dsd at a later time, to each his own. Dbpoweramp has proven itself a better idea then ripping with iTunes.

One thing that did surprise me was that I did buy an entry level Audioquest forest 1.5 meter USB cable , admittedly a entry level toe into the water of upgraded cables but shocker, I do feel it sounds much better the the six foot best buy USB cable.

I'm listening to HD Tracks First Selection Of Hi-Res Classics as I post this and I have to say the sound is epic.

More is certainly to come as I grow more comfortable with digital!

 

[slippers-on]

David, Oscar and Byron, I am just wondering what kind of synergy could be obtained with an iPhono, a Pioneer PLX-100 and a Miyajima Labs mono cartridge? I was absolutely floored at the RMAF last October when Robyatt Audio was demonstrating some Mono albums played through a Miyajima cartridge. Those family of cartridges are not cheap. The price of the Premium Mono cartridge would cost as much as the price of the PLX-1000 and the iPhono combined. Then you would also have to factor in two sets of premium RCA cables to go hook everything up. So someone would be looking at about $3K for that setup to play Mono records. But Man! Did Mono records sound so real!

David? When you heard the iPhono was it a new, out of the box unit or did it have 100+ hours playing/powered up time? I found that the iFI gear needs some burn in time until they start to bloom.

I dont know, but would love to find out! Is that where you're headed?

 

[slippers-on]

I've been immersing myself more and more into this digital realm and like what I heard. I've just given Jriver a try and having begun with Audiovana Plus I'm afraid I'm not a fan, I'll be sticking to Audiovana +. I cleaned up my non audio programs on my 13" MacBook Air 2.0ghz, i7, 8 gigs of ram.

I did try some dsd files including the Ayer.com dsd vs pcm comparison but for me there is little difference if any. I stick to to pcm for now and revisit dsd at a later time, to each his own. Dbpoweramp has proven itself a better idea then ripping with iTunes.

One thing that did surprise me was that I did buy an entry level Audioquest forest 1.5 meter USB cable , admittedly a entry level toe into the water of upgraded cables but shocker, I do feel it sounds much better the the six foot best buy USB cable.

I'm listening to HD Tracks First Selection Of Hi-Res Classics as I post this and I have to say the sound is epic.

More is certainly to come as I grow more comfortable with digital!

Is Audirvana for Mac/Apple only?

 

[Kt77]

David, Oscar and Byron, I am just wondering what kind of synergy could be obtained with an iPhono, a Pioneer PLX-100 and a Miyajima Labs mono cartridge? I was absolutely floored at the RMAF last October when Robyatt Audio was demonstrating some Mono albums played through a Miyajima cartridge. Those family of cartridges are not cheap. The price of the Premium Mono cartridge would cost as much as the price of the PLX-1000 and the iPhono combined. Then you would also have to factor in two sets of premium RCA cables to go hook everything up. So someone would be looking at about $3K for that setup to play Mono records. But Man! Did Mono records sound so real!

David? When you heard the iPhono was it a new, out of the box unit or did it have 100+ hours playing/powered up time? I found that the iFI gear needs some burn in time until they start to bloom.

Hello Lee Harvey,

First off......., apologies for my late response, as I merely didn't get a notification of said posting. Like you........., I've followed the entire Miyajima line since 2009, and know they've a couple of cheaper cartridges that play mono LP's as well.

By me going on about synergy - I tend to reflect upon my old days in retail where as a buyer, I'd be the one attention audio shows or factories abroad and finding ones with shall we say a unique voicing to then introduce to our rather picking clientele, it began with the Linn/Naim Camp and for me has ended with what I hear as perfectly matched gear when I sit in front of anything Shindo Labs and Devore Fidelity - while others are entitled to their opinions, as are we all upon what speaks to us individually, as always " I like what I like " but not at the expense of knocking someone else's taste/ears, and can except the fact that some simply don't or can't hear/feel music in the same manner as I've grown accustomed to, no shame in that, just differences of opinions.

Mono to me has a weight - clarity and depth that early folded stereo recordings merely glossed over, and became the norm as more and more people became swayed by words like imaging - sound field and/or staging and have all but forgotten where it all started - with mono amps and speakers from a time gone by but not forgotten - here I'm talking the beauty of notes as rendered through systems in either ones home or in the theater during the 30s/40s and 50s which connected to me and my wife when we view older films from these periods, it's often the sound tracks that catch my attention before the acting does, but that's another story.

Yet, I tend to see warmer/richer sounding phono-stages as a throw back to said times before certain companies would've us to believe that a fake ass sense of detailing - resolution - extended top end which aren't as delicate in nature as old school cartridges from say the late 70s and throughout the 80s were capable of playing in abundance when we fell into the actual notes instead of having them thrown into our laps and/or faces so aggressively.

In other words, while I'm very much into dynamic shadings of each and every note, I still want that fine balance between attack/speed/snap and delicacy/beauty/texture along with resolution as well as transparency and neutrality.

Once again, to my ears/senses the iFi items strike a balance few others can approach, it's not a money thing............, it's a manner of how the notes hits home as far as presentation, not Hi-Fi effects as has become the norm once again.

Synergy and Balance are meant to go hand in hand, anything otherwise simply doesn't make the grade. And lastly, don't overlook one of those Soundsmith Mono Cartridges - even if they aren't MCs, but MI based designs..........., they're voiced very nicely and will have you buying Mono LP's like new socks/drawers, and that's in a good way.

Go for it.

 

[Kt77]

Is Audirvana for Mac/Apple only?

Yes little Brotha, it is.

Audio software programs like Amarra and Pure Music were in fact all dedicated to Apple products which is why it took me months to get involved on your DSD 128 request, I merely wanted to go with the right one, but don't mind adding A+ align side JRMC in the least ( which I'm certain that most of you're aware there's a 21.1 version in the pipeline) but sonically it has to come down to what interfaces best with Mac or Windows, and not just as afterthought if you will.

The Quest continues..........:tears:

 

[lizard84]

Is Audirvana for Mac/Apple only?

Yes, I believe it is and it is outstanding.

 

[Kt77]

Just got an email from this company recommending the iFi DACs along with a few others, how's that for an endorsement?:

https://hardware.nativedsd.com

Once again, I'm thinking not many are hearing DSD 128 as heard through the exact voicing procedures as said brand offers, but I'd be wrong?, but something wonderful is going on here, and I hear it quite clearly as musical.